India Needs to Join Asia's Emerging 'Chinese Order'

[kadamba-warrior]

Why are you guys so confrontational anyway? There are no historic rivalries other than some piffling border wars over some mountain passes. Is it a race thing?

I assume that you mean to say that Indians are being confrontational but let me point out who has been confrontational and who has harmed the strategic interests of others.

It was China who clandestinely provided the "ISLAMIC" bomb to Pakistan and missiles that can deliver them on Indians (and specifically on Hindus if such a thing was ever possible). Even today, the Pakistani Politicians openly declare Nuclear Holocaust on Indians and Hindus in particular on a regular basis (now, this is not an exaggeration -- just look a month ago a mainstream Pakistani politician threatened Hindus with Nuclear holocaust)!! Nobody has harmed India's strategic interests permanently more than the Chinese! How would China like if we arm her neighbors (read Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam) with Nuclear bombs and missiles to deliver them?

If ever, a mad general or an extremist (of which there is no dearth in Pakistan), were to get hold of a nuclear weapon and kill millions and millions of Indians, the Chinese should take pride in the fact that they were directly responsible for that!

It is the Chinese who are directly or indirectly supporting terrorism in India through Pakistan (not just in the disputed territories, mind you!!). They have always turned a blind eye to the mischief of their ally Pakistan when Pakistan used the proxies to cause trouble and loss of innocent lives in Indian Kashmir. Not just that, China directly intervened in UN in 2009 with their VETO to support terrorist groups when UN met after aftermath of 26/11 Mumbai attacks to designate and condemn terrorist groups based in Pakistan!

Even on the border disputes, it is the Chinese whose sincerity is to be questioned -- not India's! Even at the time of their President's visit to India, they indulged in trespassing into Indian territory and scuttled the whole visit!! They have been postponing the talks on one pretext or the other! But I understand why anybody in China's "strong" position would put away any border settlements because the longer they delay it, the stronger their position is going to get!!

And, I haven't even discussed about the attitude of the good Chinese fellows here on PDF whose solo motto is to troll on Indian matters!! Again not an exaggeration, there are dozens of them who even have troll messages for India as their signatures and their own USER-ID's! Now, you tell me who is confrontational here!

Overall, I understand your point about neighbors co-operating for the greater good of their populace, but there is so much bad blood between China and India that I think there may be a distinct possibility of establishing peace between an Islamic Pakistan and Hindu India but no such possibility between a Buddhist/Atheist China and Buddhist/Hindu India!

 

[AgentOrange]

Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar and Bhutan can join Asia's emerging Chinese order but India is not allowed!

Chairman Xi Jinping? Is that you? No? Statements like the one you just wrote are unhelpful and are rightfully worthy of ridicule.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

As such India does not consider China and its people,culture and civilization as any issue with us...We do not have any cultural issues as such beween the people...China claims some part of India as theirs, and same way India claims from China...And above all, China supports all the anti Indian things on international foroum and support Pakistan...And that is how the trust deficit is their between ours and China.

I am sorry to disagree with you but I am sick and tired of the Indians who give Chinese the benefit of doubt! We have to realize that China has been creating trouble in India almost as an undeclared state-policy. Why else would they provide Nuclear bombs and missiles to India's enemies who are riddled with extremists and have a stated goal of India's mass-extermination by use of Nuclear weapons?

This crap about Chinese people not being enemies flies against the whole logic when you consider that the Chinese state DIRECTLY supports terrorism on Indian soil and against Indian interests abroad (2008 Mumbai attacks and multiple bombings of Indian consulate in Afghanistan, anyone?).

How long will we continue to be naive? We have to recognize the threat and take measures to mitigate them! There is no mistaking that India can do jack about China right now and the gap between us and them is only widening. We need to work harder and make ourselves and our economy stronger so that we can stand up to Chinese threats one day!!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar and Bhutan can join Asia's emerging Chinese order but India is not allowed!

They are allowed to join if they do expel those Tibetan separatists from their soil.

 

[JanjaWeed]

PLEASE. .......Atleast give us an observer status. If that not ok , then give us a live stream when u guys meet, if thats not ok send a CD of the meetings with censor cuts of important dialogues, if thats not ok allow us to contact BD or Nepal and ask what all things are discussed... we wont make problems, we promise...

If nothing works.... will try & get a pirated version from a fellow Chinese!

 

[Kaniska]

I am sorry to disagree with you but I am sick and tired of the Indians who give Chinese the benefit of doubt! We have to realize that China has been creating trouble in India almost as an undeclared state-policy. Why else would they provide Nuclear bombs and missiles to India's enemies who are riddled with extremists and have a stated goal of India's mass-extermination by use of Nuclear weapons?

This crap about Chinese people not being enemies flies against the whole logic when you consider that the Chinese state DIRECTLY supports terrorism on Indian soil and against Indian interests abroad (2008 Mumbai attacks and multiple bombings of Indian consulate in Afghanistan, anyone?).

How long will we continue to be naive? We have to recognize the threat and take measures to mitigate them! There is no mistaking that India can do jack about China right now and the gap between us and them is only widening. We need to work harder and make ourselves and our economy stronger so that we can stand up to Chinese threats one day!!

It might be true...But the fact is in Indian soil even our so called frieldly nations operate their spies and create trouble...Why to blame China only, when US allowed whole range of modern weaponry and necessary support to Pakistan from 1950 to 2001...It is in the last 10 year that US stopped helping Pakistan otherwise, US is the biggest supporter of Pakistan in directly...Then can we drop US too..?

Again, i consider China as a political and statergic rival...I consider enemey to those nations with whom even people to people contact is not good...In general like Pakistan...We have a bad relation not only at the Gov level but at the people to people level too...That is what i call it as enemity between 2 nations...Not anything else..

 

[alaungphaya]

I assume that you mean to say that Indians are being confrontational but let me point out who has been confrontational and who has harmed the strategic interests of others.

It was China who clandestinely provided the "ISLAMIC" bomb to Pakistan and missiles that can deliver them on Indians (and specifically on Hindus if such a thing was ever possible). Even today, the Pakistani Politicians openly declare Nuclear Holocaust on Indians and Hindus in particular on a regular basis (now, this is not an exaggeration -- just look a month ago a mainstream Pakistani politician threatened Hindus with Nuclear holocaust)!! Nobody has harmed India's strategic interests permanently more than the Chinese! How would China like if we arm her neighbors (read Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam) with Nuclear bombs and missiles to deliver them?

If ever, a mad general or an extremist (of which there is no dearth in Pakistan), were to get hold of a nuclear weapon and kill millions and millions of Indians, the Chinese should take pride in the fact that they were directly responsible for that!

It is the Chinese who are directly or indirectly supporting terrorism in India through Pakistan (not just in the disputed territories, mind you!!). They have always turned a blind eye to the mischief of their ally Pakistan when Pakistan used the proxies to cause trouble and loss of innocent lives in Indian Kashmir. Not just that, China directly intervened in UN in 2009 with their VETO to support terrorist groups when UN met after aftermath of 26/11 Mumbai attacks to designate and condemn terrorist groups based in Pakistan!

Even on the border disputes, it is the Chinese whose sincerity is to be questioned -- not India's! Even at the time of their President's visit to India, they indulged in trespassing into Indian territory and scuttled the whole visit!! They have been postponing the talks on one pretext or the other! But I understand why anybody in China's "strong" position would put away any border settlements because the longer they delay it, the stronger their position is going to get!!

And, I haven't even discussed about the attitude of the good Chinese fellows here on PDF whose solo motto is to troll on Indian matters!! Again not an exaggeration, there are dozens of them who even have troll messages for India as their signatures and their own USER-ID's! Now, you tell me who is confrontational here!

Overall, I understand your point about neighbors co-operating for the greater good of their populace, but there is so much bad blood between China and India that I think there may be a distinct possibility of establishing peace between an Islamic Pakistan and Hindu India but no such possibility between a Buddhist/Atheist China and Buddhist/Hindu India!

I meant both Chinese and Indians when I said confrontational.

I guess the Pakistan nuclear issue would be a major sore point for relations. It can be understandable that there would be trust issues when a foreign power arms your greatest enemy with nuclear weapons but you think China has been funding anti-India terrorists? You think China indirectly funded the Mumbai attacks?

What is the status of the border dispute? I'm afraid I don't know much about that.

 

[TejasMk3]

I meant both Chinese and Indians when I said confrontational.

I guess the Pakistan nuclear issue would be a major sore point for relations. It can be understandable that there would be trust issues when a foreign power arms your greatest enemy with nuclear weapons but you think China has been funding anti-India terrorists? You think China indirectly funded the Mumbai attacks?

What is the status of the border dispute? I'm afraid I don't know much about that.

China did block the black listing of Lashkar-e-Taiba/JuD as a terrorist group.
The Global Intelligence Files - China: Blocked Three UNSC Attempts To Ban Lashkar-e-Taiba
Also blocked the black listing of Hafiz Saeed. Well now they have some terror issues of their own now .

 

[Kaniska]

I meant both Chinese and Indians when I said confrontational.

I guess the Pakistan nuclear issue would be a major sore point for relations. It can be understandable that there would be trust issues when a foreign power arms your greatest enemy with nuclear weapons but you think China has been funding anti-India terrorists? You think China indirectly funded the Mumbai attacks?

What is the status of the border dispute? I'm afraid I don't know much about that.

Hmm....China is a sympathizer for anti India people...But there is not such any concrete evidence of Chines direct involvment..

 

[kadamba-warrior]

I meant both Chinese and Indians when I said confrontational.

I guess the Pakistan nuclear issue would be a major sore point for relations. It can be understandable that there would be trust issues when a foreign power arms your greatest enemy with nuclear weapons but you think China has been funding anti-India terrorists? You think China indirectly funded the Mumbai attacks?

What is the status of the border dispute? I'm afraid I don't know much about that.

China supported the terrorist groups targetting India by blocking resolutions against them in the UN! Isn't that direct enough?

China blocked U.N. sanctions against terror group at Pakistan's behest - The Hindu

The mainstream Pakistani politicians (not some nutcase in a remote corner of Pakistani) threaten India with Nuclear Holocaust! Check this out!!
No bird will chirp, and no bells will ring in Mandirs in India : Sheikh Rasheed.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

Not directly, but China did block the black listing of Lashkar-e-Taiba/JuD as a terrorist group.
The Global Intelligence Files - China: Blocked Three UNSC Attempts To Ban Lashkar-e-Taiba
Apart from also blocking the black listing of Hafiz Saeed. Well now they have some terror issues of their own now .

How is that action (of blocking resolutions against terror groups targeting India specifically) not a DIRECT SUPPORT to terrorism?? That is preposterous, coming from an Indian -- a victim of this terrorism!

I am disappointed that we don't articulate this fact well enough. Direct support doesn't necessarily mean providing cash/arms, but blocking UN resolutions against them when they are caught, is also a very effective way to support terrorism against India!!

 

[sicsheep]

Not directly, but China did block the black listing of Lashkar-e-Taiba/JuD as a terrorist group.
The Global Intelligence Files - China: Blocked Three UNSC Attempts To Ban Lashkar-e-Taiba
Apart from also blocking the black listing of Hafiz Saeed. Well now they have some terror issues of their own now .

hmm, India also shelter Dalai Lama, a separatist who incite unrest in China.. and a criminal by Chinese law. why should China be friendly to India if India is anti-China? some India members even accounts for posts here on PDF as anti India LOL, if internet dictates foreign policy US would be at war with Canada now.
but i guess its up to India if you want the rivalry to go on, and if what our policy should be towards India.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

It might be true...But the fact is in Indian soil even our so called frieldly nations operate their spies and create trouble...Why to blame China only, when US allowed whole range of modern weaponry and necessary support to Pakistan from 1950 to 2001...It is in the last 10 year that US stopped helping Pakistan otherwise, US is the biggest supporter of Pakistan in directly...Then can we drop US too..?

Again, i consider China as a political and statergic rival...I consider enemey to those nations with whom even people to people contact is not good...In general like Pakistan...We have a bad relation not only at the Gov level but at the people to people level too...That is what i call it as enemity between 2 nations...Not anything else..

I agree with you on the fact that we have to choose the lesser devil between and opportunistic USA (that actually "looked the other way" when Pakistanis were caught smuggling the "material") or the Chinese whose every action (throughout India's independent India's history) have been anti-India!

But China can potentially inflict far more damage than anybody in USA could -- simply for the fact that they share border with us! And have been doing exactly that!!

Already, they dammed our major river without so much as an acknowledgement of the fact that India is a lower riparian state! (Now, imagine India doing the same to Pakistan or Bangladesh without raising a sh*tstorm throughout the whole world!!)

If China believed in fighting against state-sponsored terror, they could have easily influenced Pakistanis. What they did instead in the UN, should reveal what their real intentions are -- vis-à-vis India!

 

[sicsheep]

I agree with you on the fact that we have to choose the lesser devil between and opportunistic USA (that actually "looked the other way" when Pakistanis were caught smuggling the "material") or the Chinese whose every action (throughout India's independent India's history) have been anti-India!

But China can potentially inflict far more damage than anybody in USA could -- simply for the fact that they share border with us! And have been doing exactly that!!

Already, they dammed our major river without so much as an acknowledgement of the fact that India is a lower riparian state! (Now, imagine India doing the same to Pakistan or Bangladesh without raising a sh*tstorm throughout the whole world!!)

If China believed in fighting against state-sponsored terror, they could have easily influenced Pakistanis. What they did instead in the UN, should reveal what their real intentions are -- vis-à-vis India!

OK so China may hurt India the most, that why you want China as your enemy? what is the logic behind this, please do explain.

 

[TejasMk3]

How is that action (of blocking resolutions against terror groups targeting India specifically) not a DIRECT SUPPORT to terrorism?? That is preposterous, coming from an Indian -- a victim of this terrorism!

Saar, sleepy, wanted to type something else, edited post now.

Also: Ulfa leaders held, admit China link - Hindustan Times
They also supply weapons and ammo to maoists.