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India is rightful claimant of UNSC permanent seat

That's exactly what I thought you would say. But why don't we think about it, a little more deeply?

Population size - Irrelevant. Otherwise the UK and France would not be permanent members, and Brazil and Indonesia would be.

Large economy - Irrelevant. When China joined the UNSC in 1945 we were one of the poorest and weakest economies in the world. In fact we are still a developing country today.

Nuclear power - Irrelevant. Otherwise Israel and North Korea would have permanent seats.


Again, there was only one criteria to become a UNSC permanent member. Which was to have been a major independent country on the allied side of WW2 in 1945. That's all. India did not exist back then, so they were not considered for the seat. And nobody was going to give the UK two seats.

That criteria was valid for the UNSC seat back in 1945. But the world has changed and so should UNSC. Do you understand the meaning of the word REFORM? China itself has reformed a lot in the last 70 years both politically and economically. With time every organization must reform.

I agree that it made sense for France, US, China, Russia and UK to become a member of the UNSC in 1945. The world order at the end of WW2 clearly produced these 5 powers. But in last 70 years a lot has changed.

The world organizations must Reform according to changing world order to make decision making more inclusive.
 
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That criteria was valid for the UNSC seat back in 1945. But the world has changed and so should UNSC. Do you understand the meaning of the word REFORM? China itself has reformed a lot in the last 70 years both politically and economically. With time every organization must reform.

I agree that it made sense for France, US, China, Russia and UK to become a member of the UNSC in 1945. The world order at the end of WW2 clearly produced these 5 powers. But in last 70 years a lot has changed.

The world organizations must Reform according to changing world order to make decision making more inclusive.

So do you serious believe that India will obtain UNSC seat with veto power?
 
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The world organizations must Reform according to changing world order to make decision making more inclusive.

The big problem with the UNSC today is that there are too many veto holders, which makes it very difficult to pass meaningful resolutions.

How would adding more permanent members help this? It would just make it even worse.

China, Russia and the USA have all stated that they do not wish to see any alteration or expansion of the veto system.

Can you explain why the P5 should dilute their own veto power to help India? In geopolitics, countries seek to further their own national interests, they don't weaken their own positions to benefit foreign countries. That just doesn't make any sense.
 
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Can you explain why the P5 should dilute their own veto power to help India? In geopolitics, countries seek to further their own national interests, they don't weaken their own positions to benefit foreign countries. That just doesn't make any sense.

That's exactly the problem. Why should they dilute their power?? I understand that no country likes to share or lose power, but that also doesn't mean India, Germany and Japan will stop pushing for Reforms. We will keep pashing until things change. And everyone knows one day they will. They have to.

A UNSC reform doesn't necessarily mean that Veto power will be diluted. It means that the P5 and the new members have to negotiate and come up with a new UNSC model which is acceptable to all members.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...tions-on-unsc-reform/articleshow/62754968.cms
 
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Well India does have a solid claim to the UNSC seat. China won't give out their support that easily, but overtime might be reluctantly forced to support. If most of the world major economics are asking for UNSC reform China alone can't keep blocking it.

UNSC reform will happen and when that happens India will be the first one in line.


Last time I checked Pakistan is not even considered a contender for a temporary UNSC seat.
The thread is not about Pakistan so stay away from the off topic discussion.
 
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We will keep pashing until things change. And everyone knows one day they will. They have to.

The UNSC reform resolution has been trying to get through for almost 2 decades now.

It never even reaches the UNSC, because everyone knows at least one P5 member is guaranteed to veto it, so what is the point.

The bottom line is that the P5 will not voluntarily dilute their own veto power, that's just how geopolitics works. Especially not in order to serve the interests of a foreign country.
 
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Laughable joke. China will never allow India into the UN Security Council.

China has territorial disputes with India.

China also knows it would annoy Pakistan which is a close ally of China, to have India in the United Nations.


There is no way India is getting into the United Nations.

I was laughing hard about this.

UNSC is an exclusive club. Nobody wants to lose their privileges in the UNSC.
 
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Laughable joke. China will never allow India into the UN Security Council.

China has territorial disputes with India.

China also knows it would annoy Pakistan which is a close ally of China, to have India in the United Nations.


There is no way India is getting into the United Nations.

I was laughing hard about this.

UNSC is an exclusive club. Nobody wants to lose their privileges in the UNSC.

India successfully begged for Independence. They trust that they will get what they want through begging. So India will keep on begging.

Just like a beggar that never stop annoying. That is India
 
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@Chinese-Dragon you are no kid. You can answer this question yourself. Let me give you some starters.

India represents 1/6th of Humanity. 3rd largest consumer market in the world. 3rd Largest economy in PPP and 5th largest in Nominal. Nuclear power. Rest you can figure out yourself.
here it comes, PPP to claim supa powa again.....

The UNSC reform resolution has been trying to get through for almost 2 decades now.

It never even reaches the UNSC, because everyone knows at least one P5 member is guaranteed to veto it, so what is the point.

The bottom line is that the P5 will not voluntarily dilute their own veto power, that's just how geopolitics works. Especially not in order to serve the interests of a foreign country.
Unless there is another major world war to reshape the current post-war order, I see zero chance for SP2012 to gain veto power......
 
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The entire UN was a construct of the post WW2 global reconfiguration. The permanent members: USSR (Russia), China, UK, USA, and France were the major countries that contributed significantly to the defeat of the Axis. The military contribution of British India was not significant compared to others, 87,000 died from military action and the rest were from famine.

Military deaths from WW2
USSR: 9-11 million
China: 3-4 million
USA: 400,000
UK: 380,000
Poland: 240,000
France: 210,000
India: 87,000

The permanent seat is not about the size and population of your country but how important it is in the formation of the global architecture, much of which was founded on blood and sacrifice. India has a lot of people and its population will likely surpass China in the near future, has nukes and a medium sized economy but other than that it has yet to prove itself worthy of the seat. It needs to prove to the world that it can form the global architecture for the next era (why else would P5 accept another member?), based on real action not rhetoric. That is the way to make other country feel it is acceptable for India to have a seat. As of now, you can't really blame the P5 for not wanting another country like India. What sacrifice has it contributed in shaping the next era and what results does it have to show for it? I don't like being so blunt as it may hurt the feelings of some aspirational ones but the reality is that India has yet to earn its place.

The advanced countries rejected China in joining the international space station project for many years but it will soon launch its own independent space station. There is no free meal in international relations, you only get what you put into it, rarely do you get things you don't deserve.

I'm not saying it is impossible for India to become a member of the P5 (P6) but it must contribute much more to the global architecture. Currently it's doing very little, Argentina contribues more funding to UN. PRC's bid into the UN to replace the ROC was the unconditional support and funding of African and other third world nations. China at the time of the 60s were starving in worse famines than African nations but still built rail roads and other infrastructure projects along with medical support for African nations, without asking for anything in return. In history what country was willing to do that under those conditions? This resulted in gaining support and respect from these countries to support the PRC in UN. This is also why propaganda against Chinese interests in Africa won't work and why African nations in general accept Chinese investment above others, our forefathers sacrificed to better the lives of people we are not related to even when we were starving. What actual benefit is India bringing to the world to make others respect it? not just asking others for support but real action to better others. So far its asking for too much and doing too little.

UN budget contributions:
http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=ST/ADM/SER.B/955
wow, supa powa's contribution is definitely not that supa powan....
Less than 1% of total funding....
Smaller than tiny Italy!

屏幕快照 2018-02-03 12.14.11.png




SUPPORT ITALY TO BE A PERMANENT MEMEBR


wow, even Mexico has much bigger share!
SUPPORT CHICANO MOVEMENT!

屏幕快照 2018-02-03 12.20.28.png



NO BEGGARS!
 
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That criteria was valid for the UNSC seat back in 1945. But the world has changed and so should UNSC. Do you understand the meaning of the word REFORM? China itself has reformed a lot in the last 70 years both politically and economically. With time every organization must reform.

I agree that it made sense for France, US, China, Russia and UK to become a member of the UNSC in 1945. The world order at the end of WW2 clearly produced these 5 powers. But in last 70 years a lot has changed.

The world organizations must Reform according to changing world order to make decision making more inclusive.

You can beg all you want, but no on wants to share power, period.

This is more than just membership in an exclusive Country Club, SC veto power is serious business.
India may get a consolation prize of a permanent SC member with no veto power, pray that you get that.
 
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