India is not Saudi Arabia, police chief's statement is shocking, insensitive

[schoolboy]

Gentleman Many Would Differ With You

And While Muslims May Not Be Angels Islam Is Intolerant When It Comes To Sexually Deviant Behaviour.It's Not About Just Capital Punishment It's About Being Brought Up With A Certain Set of Values

Thanks for replying.

You gave the link of an american website. The U.S. Supreme Court examined several such studies, theories and data and this is what they had to say:

In light of the massive amount of evidence before us, I see no alternative but to conclude that capital punishment cannot be justified on the basis of its deterrent effect. - in Furman v. Georgia, 408 US 238 (1972).

Incidentally the study quoted by the website you quote is an outlier in academic terms. The formal report of the National Research Council in the United States concluded in 2012 that “research to date on the effect of capital punishment on homicide is not informative about whether capital punishment decreases, increases, or has no effect on homicide rates. Therefore, the committee recommends that these studies not be used to inform deliberations requiring judgments about the effect of the death penalty on homicide.”

A good indicator is the empirical data on executions and homicides. Since 2000 homicide rates have reduced every year from above 6 (per 100,000) to below 4.5 (per 100,000) [Source: statistics published by FBI]. However during that time number of death penalties carried out have also reduced every year from about 100 (in 1999-2000) to about 20 (in 2015). During that period there have been zero new laws in the fifty states that have added the death penalty (actually states are making it harder and harder to award execution).

Other studies from more mainstream academia and journalists include the ones from Dartmouth, Columbia and Washington Post [I can't post the links since I do not have that posting permission at the moment]

Within the developing countries, you are welcome to read the 1995 judgment of the South African constitutional court (their highest court) in State v. Makwanyane, which said that deterrence and retribution cannot be the object of criminal justice.

This view is also supported by the United Nations which has consistently held that there is no conclusive evidence on deterrence and the death penalty, in Resolutions on the Moratorium on the Use of the Death Penalty of 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2015.

Lastly you are welcome to read the 262nd report of the Law Commission of India published in 2015 (p. 222, chapter VII) . As you may know India has executed less than half a dozen convicts in the last 20 years.

The commission has concluded (after quoting a great deal of scholarship on the subject) that "The death penalty does not serve the penological goal of deterrence any more than life imprisonment."

 

[H!TchHiker]

We are in KSA does not mean that we love them. On other hand KSA is a roll model for pakistan.

Strange logic ? You don't love but you want to stay in that country..You don't like but you want to do job in that country.You don't love but you continue to send thousands more in such a country..I never know pakistan strive for kingdom of ????

 

[My-Analogous]

Bengaluru molestation: India is not Saudi Arabia, police chief's statement is shocking, insensitive
Updated: Jan 4, 2017, 10.35 AM IST

By Rajeev Chandrasekhar

Four years ago in December 2012, a young girl Jyoti Singh became victim of a horrible crime, etched in all our memories as Nirbhaya+ . That was Delhi and this is now in Bengaluru as many women, instead of experiencing the simple joys of bringing in the New Year, had to face the horror of mass molestation+ .

Just as politicians and bureaucrats rushed to deflect the attention from the crime during the Nirbhaya episode, similar is the case today with this government's indefensible statements blaming women for their dress sense+ and every other conceivable reason to blame the victims for the crimes committed on them. Expectedly, you also heard some try and make this an 'outsider vs insider' debate or worse still a rich vs poor one. All sad attempts at ducking responsibility of the crime that happened.

But be that as it may - an expected response from the government that seems to have long abandoned even a shadow of accountability and responsiveness to citizens - the facts need to be brought to the attention of this government and all of us.

To start with, it is clear that the Chief Minister and his government need reminding of a simple but important fact that they seem to have forgotten - an elected government, its ministers and the police are obliged to provide law and order and safety to all its citizens. This is a constitutional mandate and responsibility imposed on any self-respecting elected state government. This responsibility is unambiguous and covers every man, woman, child and senior citizen. However, forgetfulness of their duties seems to be repeating itself frequently with this government.

To the home minister, I point out respectfully there is no provision in the Constitution or indeed the laws of this state that dilutes his responsibility or the responsibility of the police to provide protection based on sex, or dress code. India is not Saudi Arabia and Bengaluru is not some city out there. It is part of a constitutional democracy that provides rights to all citizens. To him and the new police commissioner, I would like to further point out - crimes were committed on the night of 31st December. I can quote extensively all the laws in Criminal Penal Code that were violated that night including outraging the modesty of women, attempted rape, etc. - in violation of Sections 294, 354, 509 among others. These crimes need to be investigated and criminals identified and prosecuted. The commissioner of police's statement claiming victims should go to the police in order to initiate investigation is shocking, insensitive and professionally unacceptable. The police have the powers and ability to suo motu investigate these crimes, file FIRs - especially when the prompt professional response to these crimes is vital for the professional credibility and reputation of the Bengaluru police as an institution and for Bengaluru as our city. The political leadership and the current government will be consigned to history soon but the police as an institution is a permanent one that will need to earn back the trust of the people it serves.

The signs of apathy and neglect of Bengaluru and its citizens are just too frequent to ignore with this government. Childrens' safety, environment, zoning laws and the list goes on endless - but except for childrens' safety, most others can be perceived to be victimless. However, when it comes to crimes against children, women and the elderly - a government is expected to have a zero-tolerance approach to fulfilling its duties and protecting them - which it has failed to do on Dec 31st, 2016 leaving many innocent girls scarred and abused.

Mr CM with great respect, you let them all down! The larger questions remain - why is the government dithering on investigating these crimes? Why did the government not give clearer directions to the police about the safety of its people on New Year's Eve? Is it that the police that has had to deal with repeated instances of MLAs and ministers' children throwing their weight around are now averse to taking any action against criminals? Is Bengaluru becoming a city where women have to now worry about their safety?

My request to CM this - Redeem yourself and your government in this last year of your term. Take some time off from other 'interesting' projects like Akrama Sakrama, steel flyover and pay some heed to the call to make our women feel safer in our home city, Bengaluru.

Rajeev Chandrasekhar is a Rajya Sabha MP


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...shocking-insensitive/articleshow/56325492.cms

Yes you can't be KSA and here woman can go in mid night without any protection and i am witness of that in my Umrah and Hajj trip and no body dare to touch them
@Saif al-Arab

 

[Shajida Khan]

So my dear friend, accept Islam. There are nearly 220,000,000 Muslims in India. Ask them and join them if you like. It's your choice. Islam has predicted the hardest punishments for such crimes. Rape will be equal with getting executed without mercy because the rapist has broken God's laws and every member of the Islamic society are responsible they must protect the women. Even if you die protecting a woman from rapist, you will be a martyr in Islam's vision and will be awarded by God.
I have been in western countries. Their God is their national laws. Once i saw a man raping a woman in metro but no one did nothing to protect her saying that's not our problem, we have law and laws will counter the rapist. They were watching until policemen came into the crime scene. This was their response to that crime because the national laws never mentioned that everyone of society is responsible unlike Islam's laws. Also I did nothing because i was a Muslim you know I have no doubt that i would be prisoned if i interfered.

Dear, I am a Muslim and I know it well that accepting Islam does not by itself make one a good human being. If you are rotten even putting a veneer of Islam cannot hide it. These people are rotten to the core, Islam or no Islam they deserved to be shot in plain sight so it sets a right example for rest of the country.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

So my dear friend, accept Islam.

Yeah. And then invade other countries. Take slaves. Have sex with them instead. Then free them to get God's awards. Then die in God's war in battle and get even more virgins. Bonanza.

Or.

Keep your dawaah to yourself.

Gentleman Many Would Differ With You

http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/04/capital-punishment-works-it-deters-crime/


And While Muslims May Not Be Angels Islam Is Intolerant When It Comes To Sexually Deviant Behaviour.It's Not About Just Capital Punishment It's About Being Brought Up With A Certain Set of Values

I would like Sri Lanka to be a better society to emulate. Far better than SA in all respects. Also not based on religion. Morals, conscience is not and should not be guided by religion.

If only the hadd laws are preventing one from committing adultery, it is urgent that he/she sees a doctor.

 

[Dragon Ball]

Let us accept for a moment that we are really shit people...i was so upset by reading such news in Bangalore than slowly i am realizing, it is better to be like Saudi Arabia where rapist are punished properly than being unpunished in country like mine where human values and respect is a luxury to expect for...I am ashamed for such of my country men...

Our people who indulge in such activities are definitely not like illiterate people...The people in Bangalore are all highly educated people...And these educated so called people are the rap** that they bring shame to the humanity....

You should accept Islam and seek to move to Saudi Arabia since obviously you feel shitty about yourself all the time. It is a shame having you for an Indian.

 

[Shajida Khan]

You should accept Islam and seek to move to Saudi Arabia since obviously you feel shitty about yourself all the time. It is a shame having you for an Indian.

How about having provision within Indian law to shoot these shitbags in their joke-for-a-manhood first and then charge them in court. Then we all can live peacefully in India itself.

 

[Dragon Ball]

How about having provision within Indian law to shoot these shitbags in their joke-for-a-manhood first and then charge them in court. Then we all can live peacefully in India itself.

For that they should get caught first. We already have plenty of provisions to make life miserable for these kind of vermins. I am all for castration of these kind. That does not give people like Kanishka license to blame the whole country. This is another kind of self-flagellating clowns we have to deal with. Since he is enamoured of Saudi Arabia and is in pain being an Indian, I gave him an advise that should resolve this issue satisfactorily for all concerned.

 

[Shajida Khan]

For that they should get caught first. We already have plenty of provisions to make life miserable for these kind of vermins. I am all for castration of these kind. That does not give people like Kanishka license to blame the whole country. This is another kind of self-flagellating clowns we have to deal with. Since he is enamoured of Saudi Arabia and is in pain being an Indian, I gave him an advise that should resolve this issue satisfactorily for all concerned.

I suggest a much simpler solution. Force police to register FIR against these vermins and give bonuses to those who catch them, extra if they catch them dead.

Alternatively Allow women to get firearm license easily, allow them subsidy on a small pistol and give them a bit of benefit of doubt in court of law. You will see all these road side vermins lying dead on road or running away in fear at the first sight of a woman.

 

[Dragon Ball]

I suggest a much simpler solution. Force police to register FIR against these vermins and give bonuses to those who catch them, extra if they catch them dead.

Alternatively Allow women to get firearm license easily, allow them subsidy on a small pistol and give them a bit of benefit of doubt in court of law. You will see all these road side vermins lying dead on road or running away in fear at the first sight of a woman.

Nah I am not for forcing anyone anything, least the police start arresting some innocent just to make up the numbers and collect rewards.

I am not for your second suggestion either. I don't think we need a gender warfare in this country and law gone haywire. The present laws are sufficient to deal with a law and order situation. Just removing political interference and giving the police a free hand to do their jobs and hauling over our judiciary to make it more efficient and removing corruption from it should see this matter resolve.

 

[sbmc27]

Thanks for your humble submission.
Sometimes I can't imagine those who were involved with crime are educated also. How could they do that?
I really ashamed of ourselves as people of this subcontinent. In India molestation is becoming culture.

Let us accept for a moment that we are really shit people...i was so upset by reading such news in Bangalore than slowly i am realizing, it is better to be like Saudi Arabia where rapist are punished properly than being unpunished in country like mine where human values and respect is a luxury to expect for...I am ashamed for such of my country men...

Our people who indulge in such activities are definitely not like illiterate people...The people in Bangalore are all highly educated people...And these educated so called people are the rap** that they bring shame to the humanity....

 

[Kaniska]

So my dear friend, accept Islam. There are nearly 220,000,000 Muslims in India. Ask them and join them if you like. It's your choice. Islam has predicted the hardest punishments for such crimes. Rape will be equal with getting executed without mercy because the rapist has broken God's laws and every member of the Islamic society are responsible they must protect the women. Even if you die protecting a woman from rapist, you will be a martyr in Islam's vision and will be awarded by God.
I have been in western countries. Their God is their national laws. Once i saw a man raping a woman in metro but no one did nothing to protect her saying that's not our problem, we have law and laws will counter the rapist. They were watching until policemen came into the crime scene. This was their response to that crime because the national laws never mentioned that everyone of society is responsible unlike Islam's laws. Also I did nothing because i was a Muslim you know I have no doubt that i would be prisoned if i interfered.

Stupidity as some limits...After reading your first line, i just stopped myself...How do you know that Muslims are not there in the crowd who misbehaved with women...Come on man...if you do not have any rational point to discuss, just stay away with your suggestion and suggesting to adopt any religion other mine.

Dear, I am a Muslim and I know it well that accepting Islam does not by itself make one a good human being. If you are rotten even putting a veneer of Islam cannot hide it. These people are rotten to the core, Islam or no Islam they deserved to be shot in plain sight so it sets a right example for rest of the country.

Spot on...rotten people does not have any religion..The poster is just a fanatic nut element...I stopped his post after 1st sentence.

 

[Samlee]

Thanks for replying.

You gave the link of an american website. The U.S. Supreme Court examined several such studies, theories and data and this is what they had to say:

In light of the massive amount of evidence before us, I see no alternative but to conclude that capital punishment cannot be justified on the basis of its deterrent effect. - in Furman v. Georgia, 408 US 238 (1972).

Incidentally the study quoted by the website you quote is an outlier in academic terms. The formal report of the National Research Council in the United States concluded in 2012 that “research to date on the effect of capital punishment on homicide is not informative about whether capital punishment decreases, increases, or has no effect on homicide rates. Therefore, the committee recommends that these studies not be used to inform deliberations requiring judgments about the effect of the death penalty on homicide.”

A good indicator is the empirical data on executions and homicides. Since 2000 homicide rates have reduced every year from above 6 (per 100,000) to below 4.5 (per 100,000) [Source: statistics published by FBI]. However during that time number of death penalties carried out have also reduced every year from about 100 (in 1999-2000) to about 20 (in 2015). During that period there have been zero new laws in the fifty states that have added the death penalty (actually states are making it harder and harder to award execution).

Other studies from more mainstream academia and journalists include the ones from Dartmouth, Columbia and Washington Post [I can't post the links since I do not have that posting permission at the moment]

Within the developing countries, you are welcome to read the 1995 judgment of the South African constitutional court (their highest court) in State v. Makwanyane, which said that deterrence and retribution cannot be the object of criminal justice.

This view is also supported by the United Nations which has consistently held that there is no conclusive evidence on deterrence and the death penalty, in Resolutions on the Moratorium on the Use of the Death Penalty of 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2015.

Lastly you are welcome to read the 262nd report of the Law Commission of India published in 2015 (p. 222, chapter VII) . As you may know India has executed less than half a dozen convicts in the last 20 years.

The commission has concluded (after quoting a great deal of scholarship on the subject) that "The death penalty does not serve the penological goal of deterrence any more than life imprisonment."

You Are Welcome And I Commend You On A Well Researched Post But Have You Noticed One Thing That The Dates Of The Court Judgments And NRC Reports Precede The Link I Gave You

And I Don't Think That India Is An Ideal Example to Give Less Than 6 Executions And The Results

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-in-the-world-Report/articleshow/38936240.cms

 

[suresh1773]

So my dear friend, accept Islam. There are nearly 220,000,000 Muslims in India. Ask them and join them if you like. It's your choice. Islam has predicted the hardest punishments for such crimes. Rape will be equal with getting executed without mercy because the rapist has broken God's laws and every member of the Islamic society are responsible they must protect the women. Even if you die protecting a woman from rapist, you will be a martyr in Islam's vision and will be awarded by God.
I have been in western countries. Their God is their national laws. Once i saw a man raping a woman in metro but no one did nothing to protect her saying that's not our problem, we have law and laws will counter the rapist. They were watching until policemen came into the crime scene. This was their response to that crime because the national laws never mentioned that everyone of society is responsible unlike Islam's laws. Also I did nothing because i was a Muslim you know I have no doubt that i would be prisoned if i interfered.

U have given a example what u saw in Western countries,however in Sweden it is Muslim immigrants who are blamed for the rape. What will u say on this.

 

[TOPGUN]

And that is why it is ideal of Pakistan and pakistan wants to be an another saudi arebia. Good luck for that.

You couldn't come with anything smart and logical to say so you bring Pakistan in it which has nothing to do with it. Many of you Indians just dream, think, wonder and hate Pakistan all the time. You people have nothing but time and hateful thoughts in your mind and soul which is pathetic do something else with your lives seriously !!