India eyes Israel's Iron Dome to counter Pak, puppets

[azim49]

The reason why a rocket is preferred over an artillery piece is because the rocket is a fully self contained launch and weapon platform, whereas an artillery piece is a supporting platform for a warhead and it require constant manpower to operate and to maintain. In other words, a missile is a throwaway weapon while an artillery is like a pistol that you keep for future use.

This make these simple to design and manufacture rockets ideal for insurgency warfare and the same amount of men that is required to set up and launch a salvo of rockets is the same amount to set up and launch ONE mortar, which is the most powerful artillery piece an insurgency warfare unit can rapidly use from the need of mobility.

Still, there is a limit on how much rockets a rapidly mobile insurgency warfare unit can carry at any one time, not counting how many such units available. That is why it is very difficult to actually numerically overwhelm the Iron Dome defense, especially when the system is able to discern a credible threat from several rockets when many of them are inaccurate and imprecise by design/manufacture.

Wait!!
gambit strikes again

 

[Bang Galore]

Their Generals are not, they are very capable officers and that is why they have not entertained this idea of acquiring the Iron Dome. It is just these arm chair Generals here on PDF and in the media whom are speculating that India will acquire this system.

During the Bosnian War, thousands of artillery shells were fired in a couple of minutes. Same scenario will be repeated between India and Pakistan, do these guys actually think that Indian Army can afford to launch a $90k interceptor for every artillery shell. If so, than Pakistan has already won the war because India will be bankrupt, even a country like the US cannot afford a system like this to neutralize artillery shells. Besides, there are several tactics that can be used by PA to make this system irrelevant. Why not fire dummy rounds at sensitive areas to force the IA to launch the interceptors, once launched fire the real rounds. This is just one tactic, there are several others that can be employed.

As I have said earlier, I'm not sure that the Iron Dome will be purchased by India as is but your arguments of the cost of the interceptor bankrupting India is not necessarily accurate. The radar in the Iron dome system is supposed to determine where the incoming rocket will strike. Simple logic thereafter to calculate cost of possible damage with cost of the interceptor & launch or not based on those parameters. Since artillery is not necessarily accurate it might be Pakistan running up a bill with pointless, non effective launches while India might just take down the possible effective attacks. Not arguing that it would be so simple but just pointing out that your argument is not without flaws.

That is why it is very difficult to actually numerically overwhelm the Iron Dome defense, especially when the system is able to discern a credible threat from several rockets when many of them are inaccurate and imprecise by design/manufacture.

 

[Secur]

Still, there is a limit on how much rockets a rapidly mobile insurgency warfare unit can carry at any one time, not counting how many such units available. That is why it is very difficult to actually numerically overwhelm the Iron Dome defense, especially when the system is able to discern a credible threat from several rockets when many of them are inaccurate and imprecise by design/manufacture.

Iron Dome may be good at protecting Israeli citizens from Hamas rockets but they are only few in numbers and fired with several hours or days delay ... The same scenario is not applicable to India-Pakistan theatre level warfare because both sides will fire thousands of shells and rockets in a matter of seconds ... How many shells or rockets is the Iron Dome going to intercept with a $ 50k tag on each of them provided that the adversary has other means of overwhelming the system with low cost counter measures ? ... How much time will the system have to identify , track and engage a credible threat which itself would be in hundreds ? I think I can differentiate between the accuracy of sophisticated rockets operated by my country with those obsolete home made and imprecise ones fired by Hamas or any other insurgent group ...

In your whole post , you have discussed the threat posed by an insurgent group and how to counter it , not a proper army ...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Iron Dome may be good at protecting Israeli citizens from Hamas rockets but they are only few in numbers and fired with several hours or days delay ... The same scenario is not applicable to India-Pakistan theatre level warfare because both sides will fire thousands of shells and rockets in a matter of seconds ... How many shells or rockets is the Iron Dome going to intercept with a $ 50k tag on each of them provided that the adversary has other means of overwhelming the system with low cost counter measures ? ... How much time will the system have to identify , track and engage a credible threat which itself would be in hundreds ? I think I can differentiate between the accuracy of sophisticated rockets operated by my country with those obsolete home made and imprecise ones fired by Hamas or any other insurgent group ...

sirji as a famous pakistani qwall once said dil ke bajar me surat nahi dekhee jatee mal achha ho to keemat nahi dekhee jatee and there is no cost higher for security and independence well i guess u guys have a diff. view on that as u have many big brothers

 

[Secur]

there is no cost higher for security and independence well i guess u guys have a diff. view on that as u have many big brothers

Countries do not infinite money as you assume them to have ... The recent economic boom doesn't mean you can go on an endless shopping spree ... A 50k interceptor for some low cost rockets or shells , go for it !

 

[GURU DUTT]

Countries do not infinite money as you assume them to have ... The recent economic boom doesn't mean you can go on an endless shopping spree ... A 50k interceptor for some low cost rockets or shells , go for it !

the point is ????????

 

[Bang Galore]

Countries do not infinite money as you assume them to have ... The recent economic boom doesn't mean you can go on an endless shopping spree ... A 50k interceptor for some low cost rockets or shells , go for it !

Not the point, it isn't the cost of the incoming rocket/shell that will be the determining factor, it will be the cost of the possible damage that the "low cost" missile may cause. If that damage > the cost of the interceptor, launch will take place, if < the cost of interceptor, no launch will take place. No one is about to launch an interceptor for something that will land harmlessly. As I have said before, it causes the adversary to factor this in & therefore increases his cost because of the likely attempts to neutralise the defence.

 

[Areesh]

the point is ????????

Even USA might not afford such type of expenses. Let alone India. No matter how Richie rich you guys are(Even though you aren't).

 

[GURU DUTT]

Even USA might not afford such type of expenses. Let alone India. No matter how Richie rich you guys are(Even though you aren't).

Thanks u sirji but har mulk ki masheehat kerri lugar jaise billon ki wjah se nahi chalte we can and we will buy stuff which we can afford to and think is right for us theres nothing u could do about it

Humara paisa hamara desh hamaree defence tussi kyon parshan ho rahe ho sirji

 

[azim49]

Israel did the operation to advertise their Iron Dome system ....... no offense ....... it costs only 5 jewish

Here is the glory of Philistine ........ they compelled israel to pay ........ and in near future ......... Israel has to pay.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Israel did the operation to advertise their Iron Dome system ....... no offense ....... it costs only 5 jewish

well another conpiracy theoree

but sirji as they say dikh rahee hai to bik rahee hai

 

[Tshering22]

Even USA might not afford such type of expenses. Let alone India. No matter how Richie rich you guys are(Even though you aren't).

Certainly. Iron Dome is too expensive however that doesn't mean we cannot develop Pradyumna BMD into something similar to Iron Dome.

But I agree with you on one thing; we simply don't need it.

 

[gambit]

Iron Dome may be good at protecting Israeli citizens from Hamas rockets but they are only few in numbers and fired with several hours or days delay ... The same scenario is not applicable to India-Pakistan theatre level warfare because both sides will fire thousands of shells and rockets in a matter of seconds ... How many shells or rockets is the Iron Dome going to intercept with a $ 50k tag on each of them provided that the adversary has other means of overwhelming the system with low cost counter measures ? ... How much time will the system have to identify , track and engage a credible threat which itself would be in hundreds ? I think I can differentiate between the accuracy of sophisticated rockets operated by my country with those obsolete home made and imprecise ones fired by Hamas or any other insurgent group ...

In your whole post , you have discussed the threat posed by an insurgent group and how to counter it , not a proper army ...

The flaw in your argument seems to be that you perceive the Iron Dome system have a fixed quantity of units, hence Pakistan will be able to numerically overwhelm any ground target. If India adopt the system, India will adapt the system into India's current air defense tactics, whatever those might be. If the incorporation require X quantity of units, India will build X quantity.

 

[Secur]

Not the point, it isn't the cost of the incoming rocket/shell that will be the determining factor, it will be the cost of the possible damage that the "low cost" missile may cause. If that damage > the cost of the interceptor, launch will take place, if < the cost of interceptor, no launch will take place. No one is about to launch an interceptor for something that will land harmlessly. As I have said before, it causes the adversary to factor this in & therefore increases his cost because of the likely attempts to neutralise the defence.

So , we are discarding any causalities to the troops , right ? ...

Lets see it from your view point , provided the Iron Dome can detect , identify and engage any credible threat ( which is to say " less than the cost of the interceptors " ) , it simply will not have enough time to do that in Indo-Pak scenario since the enemy would be firing thousands of artillery shells or rockets ... The system has been criticized for its slow reaction time by many military experts from Israel ... Even if it does that without being overwhelmed by thousands of launches , the thing is that even credible threats would be in hundreds in war scenario , what is that you want to protect and at what cost ? ... & again what is the probability of a successful intercept ? Around 70% is for Hamas unguided and imprecise rockets , how low does it go now in case of sophisticated threats you are to face on the western or northern borders ?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Certainly. Iron Dome is too expensive however that doesn't mean we cannot develop Pradyumna BMD into something similar to Iron Dome.

But I agree with you on one thing; we simply don't need it.

Converting PAD into something like Iron Dome will be even more costly, for Iron dome we need cheaper projectiles. Hopefully India and Israel will collaborate to work on a cheaper version of Iron Dome.