India close to sealing $20 billion Rafale deal with France

[Bobby]

we are just 10 yrs late....Thanks to Congress....now Modi ji is taking it to fast track

 

[sancho]

What is the point of that critical technology if we cannot utilize it.
PSU's are simply not able to deliver even when they have the technology.

If the tech and production were going to a private company, I could have understood that the private Indian company would be aggressive and take the opportunity, absorb and then be able to deliver new things to India. That is not going to happen with HAL, it is too slow, its production rate is ridiculously too low for any product it is given or has made.

And at the end of the day most of the ToT we acquire will be wasted and become obsolete and we will acquire new ToT after 2 decades .

That conclusion is based on the believe that the privat industry would insist on critical techs, which don't have to be the case. They aim on what the most financial beneficiary solution for them! IF Reliance for example would get critical techs of a feature that the IAF wants on the Rafale, it gets benefits only from parts for the Indian order. If they produce the wings however for all Indian Rafales and later most likely also for export Rafales of other fighters, what will they prefer? The latter of course, because privat companies are driven by making profits in first place and no matter from where they come! Our PSU's sadly show the same mindset now, with the difference that they have no choice and have to stick with what MoD and the forces decides.

Wrt ToT wasted, what kind of ToT did we got so far? We produce a lot of parts of the MKI under ToT, but mostly of non critical parts. We are able to build anykind of airframe parts for the Flankers or the Jags and I think even for own modifications in these fields, but we still can't develop a proper 4th gen MMR, nor a similar engine. MKI surely was a leap ahead for India wrt to licence production and ToT, but MMRCA is also meant to be the next step in this area, by getting critical techs that and know how, that is meant to improve our industry (privat and government owned) and that is simply not possible by sticking to FGFA and domestic developments, not to mention that IAF has operational requirements too.

Wrt your earlier statement about 4th and 5th gen fighters. The world is still going for 4th generation fighters in the bulk, simply by the fact that most of the world can't afford to procure and operate 5th gen fighters. In fact most of Europe will remain with 4th gen fighters for decades, because they plan only with 5th gen fighters or UCAVs in addition to them, not to replace them. Same goes for Russia, Australia, most of South America and of course Africa.
For India the case is the same, since we plan with FGFA and AURA, but will have 4th gen MKIs, MMRCAs and LCAs too and MMRCAs simply are needed because our domistic LCA is neither ready nor as capable to fill the operational gap, nor does it offer the industrial benefits that MMRCA should bring, since MMRCA is meant to fill the gaps that we found during the LCA project.

 

[kaykay]

Just seal the deal.

 

[SwAggeR]

I do not agree with this decision.

$20 billion is a $hit ton of money. I think the deal must be scrapped and all money funneled to FGFA and domestic programs.

We seem to be one of the few nations in the world who are planning to induct 4th generation jets when the world is planning to induct 5th generation jets.

Note: UK, France, etc are not planning now to buy the Typhoon/Rafale, they inducted it almost a decade ago and are only continuing those ordered earlier!

Food security implemented by previous government will cost us just 20 Billion $$ annually.

20 Billion $$ for MMRCA is not needed to be paid upfront, it is spread over 10 years and there is offset clause too.

Food Security Bill: 'Huge fund outlay to hit fiscal deficit' - Indian Express

What is the point of that critical technology if we cannot utilize it.
PSU's are simply not able to deliver even when they have the technology.

If the tech and production were going to a private company, I could have understood that the private Indian company would be aggressive and take the opportunity, absorb and then be able to deliver new things to India. That is not going to happen with HAL, it is too slow, its production rate is ridiculously too low for any product it is given or has made.

And at the end of the day most of the ToT we acquire will be wasted and become obsolete and we will acquire new ToT after 2 decades .

Did you graduate from 3rd to 5 th standard directly ?? I guess you didn't.

We need to absorb 4.5 gen tech before we leap to 5th. I think you are aware of recent issues with russians and knows about our workshare.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I do not agree with this decision.

$20 billion is a $hit ton of money. I think the deal must be scrapped and all money funneled to FGFA and domestic programs.

We seem to be one of the few nations in the world who are planning to induct 4th generation jets when the world is planning to induct 5th generation jets.

Note: UK, France, etc are not planning now to buy the Typhoon/Rafale, they inducted it almost a decade ago and are only continuing those ordered earlier!

It's not $20BN anyway- it's $16BN spread out over 10 years.

What do you mean funnel it into the FGFA program? This project is already swallowing up $30BN over the next 15 years from India.

You are also not understanding that the MMRCA is as much about getting a new fighter as the massive industrial benefits it would bring.

For the foreseeable future the Rafale will be a potent fighter especially in the region who can only really claim to be inferior to the F-22 and FGFA/PAK-FA. I am, along with many Western analysts, still very sceptical about the capability of China's (and by extension Pakistan's) next generation fighter a/c. IMHO the Rafale will give any such planes a run for their money for decades to come. Not to mention the French have no plans to acquire or develop 5th gen fighters so they'll keep upgrading the Rafale to keep it cutting edge.

 

[Storm Force]

For the foreseeable future the Rafale will be a potent fighter especially in the region who can only really claim to be inferior to the F-22 and FGFA/PAK-FA. I am, along with many Western analysts, still very sceptical about the capability of China's (and by extension Pakistan's) next generation fighter a/c. IMHO the Rafale will give any such planes a run for their money for decades to come. Not to mention the French have no plans to acquire or develop 5th gen fighters so they'll keep upgrading the Rafale to keep it cutting edge.

100% TRUE.

i JUST CANT SEE CHINEASE COCKPIT ENGINE AND RADAR/WEAPONS TECH being equal to European or USA standards.

Thus making rafale king of our theatre for next decade.

Look at the Pakistanis they STIL THINK A 1980s built F16 is the best in the world BAR F22

Rafale will be dream fighter for INDIA