In Pakistan, men make decisions and women make dinner

[Kaniska]

I am a new member. cannot post links.

This is the same impression of South Asia like majority Indian think, in US, you will find boys and girls kiss each other on all public places.

So bottomline is that, SouthAsia is a culturally diverse place unlike America...So it needs some one has patince and qualitative insight to understand it.

 

[Sam.]

Writer of the blog is: A software engineer, musician, writer and activist from Islamabad, currently based in Chicago.



So a musician hippie wanna be in the U.S knows the problems of average Pakistani women living in small towns, villages, and communities etc?

These burger types have NO clue as to the real challenges face by average Pakistani girls. They live in their bubble and try to act as our 'saviors'

These burger types are so dumb that while women in interior Sindh were getting exploited and raped by feudal lords and waderas---these "feminists" type girls fromultra-rich families were busy talking about "being proud of their periods." Remember that?

Their motto was "Periods make us hornier"

Yes, these are the secular-liberals who want to change Pakistan's "oppressive" culture and talk about "real issues" of our sisters, and daughters. Real issues such as "periods" and their "horny-ness"

It's insulting to Pakistanis how these idiots think they can speak for us and define what our problems are. No mate, you fu*ck off with your elitist behavior and throught process. You don't speak for Pakistan or it's problems. You have never experienced them, and never will (thanks to your rich and well-connected daddy that got you this job at English-language magazine....which 90% of Pakistanis can not even read).

-In my opinion, this is as pathetic as an article can get. So lemme get this straight, a guy from a country which has around a 70% divorce rate, an identity crisis among the young because they don't know who their fathers are (a shout out to "sexual freedom" for that one), and according to feminist organizations, a sexual assault/domestic violence epidemic --- is talking about how other countries should function socially ... that should be the end of the conversation right there ...

-But let's take it further, he talks about how MEN use religion as a proxy to enforce stuff on women. Well guess what, the enforcement of special roles isn't on 'JUST WOMEN', a society whose social structure is based on gender roles, men have theirs too. How many women die in wars? How many women work in dangerous jobs even in the west which loves to talk about a glass ceiling at the top management, but all you hear is birds chirping if you mention that coal miners and other dangerous job holders are exclusively men and that should be 50-50 as well because after all ... It not being 50-50 means that there is some sort of "discrimination and oppression of women" .. atleast according to western feminism...

-Lastly, in a democratic society, no Tom, Dick or Harry from the west is going to tell us PAKISTANIS, how WE should lead our lives. Our men and women will be the ones to decide. If men and women want gender specific roles where men go out and are charged with the responsibility of the finances etc. while women remain in the houses and take care of the children and housework ... that is OUR decision as a society. If men and women want to be completely free where everything is gender neutral, that is OUR decision again. Let's not take advice from a hyper confused society that talks big on "gender equality" yet women want men to pay on the first date cuz "it's traditional" ...

Typical feminist crap. The kind of equality this man is talking about can never happen. That is why in sport men and women compete separately not against each other. These people want to deny basic biological facts

Completely agree , this is femenazis shit. What's wrong in cooking?

This is the same impression of South Asia like majority Indian think, in US, you will find boys and girls kiss each other on all public places.

What next?
Having sex in public places?

 

[StraightShooter]

Completely agree , this is femenazis shit. What's wrong in cooking?

There is nothing wrong in working outside the home or inside the home as long as there are no restrictions on either of them on either of them.

Please don't insult the intelligence of the people responding to this article. I find it quite ironic when you lecture a poster about how he should reply to some "valid points" the OP made, while failing to bring up a single solitary valid point from the article yourself ...

Oh well, I'll entertain the thought anyways ... Let's see these "valid points" ..

1. Pakistan has had female fighter pilots. That's as frontline as it gets. In addition, qualitative standards need to be met. In the US marines for example standards for qualification for women were dropped when women weren't able to pass the set fitness examination. Do we want incompetent defense or your feel good inclusion ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uirement-wont-three-pull-ups-pass-muster.html
2. Baloney. Such "wage gaps" have been debunked countless times. There is an entire book available regarding the subject by Dr. William Farrel who debunks the entire "discrimination theory" behind the wage gap.
3. There is this thing called "ghar damad".
4. Again horse $hit, he doesn't have any proof to back up his claim, when you look at formal and informal structures of power, you find that women make decisions too. Heck, women even make decisions for men. There was a white feather campaign by the brits in the great war, where women shamed men as young as 16 to sign up for the army by giving them a white feather.
5. Gender roles are enforced on BOTH MEN and women. It's not a one way street. And btw, its a system that actually works. Just look up crime statistics in the US of kids that are born out of wed-lock or belong to a single parent family.
6. Yeah, we literally tell our children " Maa ke kadmon tale jannat hai" ... I really wonder who they respect more.
7. Similarly, when kids are taught ... hit back if someone hits you. The one exception is .... If it's a girl that hits you, don't hit back. Whose subservient to who .. is a whole debate that one can't simply justify with an anecdote.
8. Yeah, and it was opposed by EVERYBODY.
9. One constant though, the man is always supposed to work. The woman has the option, if she chooses to, the families can work it out. How many times do we have the conversation if the son is supposed to work or not?
10. Nope, the point of education is to equip yourself with different view points, to educate yourself to be a better human being and view the world differently. Education for the sake of getting a job is the last thing on the list of what education should be about.
11. Again BS argument. The religious rules apply on both men and women. This isn't oppression olympics, if it were .. people like the OP should visit suicide statistics, violent crime victim statistics, on the job injury and death statistics etc.
12. Yet we conveniently have a man imposing his views of "freedom of women" down another society's throat. Quite ironic indeed.
13. The only difference, our society actually reacted and there is no such thing as a hijab for 5 marks in our system, while there is a burqa ban in france.
14. Many women actually do support their husbands who are ill and can't work. Our society, at least myself as an individual look at them as hero's as they didn't whine and cry about their tough situation, instead they opted to do something about it.

The post that you have quoted is not made by me. I do not know from where and how my name was inserted.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Please don't insult the intelligence of the people responding to this article. I find it quite ironic when you lecture a poster about how he should reply to some "valid points" the OP made, while failing to bring up a single solitary valid point from the article yourself ...

Oh well, I'll entertain the thought anyways ... Let's see these "valid points" ..

Read my post again, slowly and carefully

 

[RoadRunner401]

I’m the boss of the house and I have my wife’s permission to say so !!

 

[M. Sarmad]

I did ... which is why I posted the criticism that I did.

You have anything serious to say/discuss? No need to quote me again otherwise . Regards

 

[livingdead]

change 'pakistan' to 'india' and the article will be still be spot on... men still find 'homely' girl desirable to marry... homely being another word for subservient. There is an unwritten curfew for girls between 9 pm to 6 am(depending on where you live.. it can vary)... even though India is pretty safe country for men... if you are outside your home then you are 'fair game'. Girls are surely loved in the family, dont get me wrong, they are treated as princess, but I often wonder whether I would trade that for equality....
if I was given option to be either girl or boy.. I will choose boy, every time.

 

[StraightShooter]

change 'pakistan' to 'india' and the article will be still be spot on... men still find 'homely' girl desirable to marry... homely being another word for subservient. There is an unwritten curfew for girls between 9 pm to 6 am(depending on where you live.. it can vary)... even though India is pretty safe country for men... if you are outside your home then you are 'fair game'. Girls are surely loved in the family, dont get me wrong, they are treated as princess, but I often wonder whether I would trade that for equality....
if I was given option to be either girl or boy.. I will choose boy, every time.

But for the most part the curfew is not because they suspect the girl child rather they care for the girl child.

I would rather mandate a full curfew for all boys so that girls could enjoy the night with confidence and security.

The curfew for boys would also ensure that they move away from the bad habits.

 

[livingdead]

But for the most part the curfew is not because they suspect the girl child rather they care for the girl child.

I would rather mandate a full curfew for all boys so that girls could enjoy the night with confidence and security.

The curfew for boys would also ensure that they move away from the bad habits.

the curfew is so that girls are not raped and killed.. and the risk is for all women not only young girls...

 

[M. Sarmad]

.. I would agree with YOUR point on the whole issue of interpretation ... however, the OP never made such claims ...

-He doesn't even discuss interpretation like you did.
...

From the OP:

.. This oppression on women in Pakistan is justified through convenient interpretations of the Holy Scripture, but everyone seems to forget that the Holy Prophet (pbuh)’s wife Hazrat Khadijah was a successful merchant with numerous trade caravans, without the help of a man. ......

 

[StraightShooter]

the curfew is so that girls are not raped and killed.. and the risk is for all women not only young girls...

of course even married women are raped in India. When girls are young parents enforce the curfew while when they grow up they self-impose the curfew. my wife and sister would not go out at night due to security reasons.my sister works and lives alone in another city and it is a constant concern for the family as well as herself.

She has to shop all groceries and return home before darkness sets in.

 

[Zibago]

S
So what you want to debate?
You agree with OP or not?

Source is ET bs blog

We are not a perfect country but really our perception is worse than our reality
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ender-inequality-in-india-than-pak-bangla-un/
@Musafir117
We have lower rate of child marriages than certain neighbouring countries but we are criticized more on that front

I’m the boss of the house and I have my wife’s permission to say so !!

Isey kehtey hain mashriki shohar

perfectly expllained..just a bahana and fazool ki "chingari ko hawa dena" balkay yahan koi chingari hai bhi nai...they need something to cry and protest..tooo free in life..dont mind their own businesses

ET never post anything good about Pakistan
They even find ways to post negative news on 23 March

 

[WarFariX]

Source is ET bs blog

We are not a perfect country but really our perception is worse than our reality
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ender-inequality-in-india-than-pak-bangla-un/
@Musafir117
We have lower rate of child marriages than certain neighbouring countries but we are criticized more on that front


Isey kehtey hain mashriki shohar


ET never post anything good about Pakistan
They even find ways to post negative news on 23 March

i know the owners of ET...they enjoy and relax on fat couches and drink beer (clear photo i saw) and live in europe

 

[abdulbarijan]

^^ A really really stupid response. The author has tried to draw attention towards subordination and oppression of women in Pakistan. He didn't say that Islam advocates oppression of women, he has argued that Muslim men through their convenient interpretations of Islam use religion as a proxy to control women, and in doing so they ignore Quranic injunctions and example(s) from the life of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The article does make some valid points. Why not reply to them instead of lashing out against Seculars and Liberals ?

From the OP:

Note: Edited

Please don't insult the intelligence of the people responding to this article. The said poster's response is in fact quite appropriate cuz that's the type of articles you see from feminists. As far as the argument about convenient interpretations is concerned as a proxy to oppress women ... Yeah some part of it might be true in rural areas where less educated people reside and are guided by our street mullahs.
However, while you claim that "He didn't say that Islam advocates oppression of women". He states;

Of course, we can’t hide away from the fact that there is a strong religious association to this entire problem and with our culture so strongly tied to religion, which is taboo to even question, therein lies the problem.

Anyways, Let's see these other "valid points" ..

1.For instance, while allowed to participate in the army, women are still not permitted to serve in frontline combat in the United Kingdom, Turkey, and Slovakia.
2.In the United States, and other developed nations, women are consistently overlooked for promotions and paid less for doing the same work their male counterparts do.
3.I was really attached to my parents and felt relieved that in the future, I wouldn’t have to move away to some girl’s house.
4. Men made decisions, women made dinner.
5.However, strong gender roles are forced upon those less fortunate than myself.
6.In Pakistan, people in positions of authority, who children are taught to respect, continuously highlight differences between men and women, often selling short a woman’s ambition, her individuality and her worth as a human being. And often, these authority figures are not just teachers but parents as well.
7.Turns out, from a very young age, her mother always told her women should be subservient to men. In her subconscious mind, men had an elevated status to the point where she was willingly acting like a slave to a boy who perhaps, by the same logic, may have felt superior as a result of his own upbringing.
8.Recently, Punjab Higher Education Minister Syed Raza Ali Gillani suggested that government institutions would allot five marks to hijab-wearing students in a bid to promote the practice. This reminded me of all times men felt the need to force rules and ideas upon women. I was glad to see the backlash that ended up making this such a short-lived story but it is still proof that the problem is alive and kicking.
9.The average girl in Pakistan is extremely oppressed. She is taught that she is a representation of honour. She is taught to be shy and quiet. Her purpose in life is to get married and run a home, and many times there’s a conversation between families as to whether she would be ‘allowed’ to work, just to check if her husband would be comfortable with it.
10.The point of an education is to equip an individual with a sense of independence and liberty. These are absolutely worthless if in the same premises, we teach women that they are only meant to fill certain roles. I recently heard a lecture on the number one trending YouTube channel in Pakistan, ‘Bolti Kitabain’(Talking books), that the purpose of a women’s education is to make her a good person; not so that she can work … go figure.
11.The problem is that men feel the need to control women and use religion as a proxy and women refuse to challenge it.
12. When we have discussions about women rights, women need to be present at those panels and TV shows in the majority. We have repeatedly been brainwashed by being told that women should do a certain thing. It’s time we stand up and constantly remind society and people like Gillani that a man should not speak on behalf a woman but should empower her speak up and make decisions for herself.
13. It is hypocritical to be offended when France bans the veil and be proud when Pakistan enforces the hijab. Every human being deserves a choice in what to wear, what to study, when to get married, whether to get married at all and what to do with his or her life.
14. How do we react today in Pakistan when a wife supports the husband? We can’t even picture it because the gender roles we teach don’t subscribe to such ideas.

1. Pakistan has had female fighter pilots. That's as frontline as it gets. In addition, qualitative standards need to be met. In the US marines for example standards for qualification for women were dropped when women weren't able to pass the set fitness examination. Do we want incompetent defense or your feel good inclusion ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uirement-wont-three-pull-ups-pass-muster.html
2. Baloney. Such "wage gaps" have been debunked countless times. There is an entire book available regarding the subject by Dr. William Farrel who debunks the entire "discrimination theory" behind the wage gap.
3. There is this thing called "ghar damad".
4. Again horse $hit, he doesn't have any proof to back up his claim, when you look at formal and informal structures of power, you find that women make decisions too. Heck, women even make decisions for men. There was a white feather campaign by the brits in the great war, where women shamed men as young as 16 to sign up for the army by giving them a white feather.
5. Gender roles are enforced on BOTH MEN and women. It's not a one way street. And btw, its a system that actually works. Just look up crime statistics in the US of kids that are born out of wed-lock or belong to a single parent family.
6. Yeah, we literally tell our children " Maa ke kadmon tale jannat hai" ... I really wonder who they respect more.
7. Similarly, when kids are taught ... hit back if someone hits you. The one exception is .... If it's a girl that hits you, don't hit back. Whose subservient to who .. is a whole debate that one can't simply justify with an anecdote.
8. Yeah, and it was opposed by EVERYBODY.
9. One constant though, the man is always supposed to work. The woman has the option, if she chooses to, the families can work it out. How many times do we have the conversation if the son is supposed to work or not?
10. Nope, the point of education is to equip yourself with different view points, to educate yourself to be a better human being and view the world differently. Education for the sake of getting a job is the last thing on the list of what education should be about.
11. Again BS argument. The religious rules apply on both men and women. This isn't oppression olympics, if it were .. people like the OP should visit suicide statistics, violent crime victim statistics, on the job injury and death statistics etc.
12. Yet we conveniently have a man imposing his views of "freedom of women" down another society's throat. Quite ironic indeed.
13. The only difference, our society actually reacted and there is no such thing as a hijab for 5 marks in our system, while there is a burqa ban in france.
14. Many women actually do support their husbands who are ill and can't work. Our society, at least myself as an individual look at them as hero's as they didn't whine and cry about their tough situation, instead they opted to do something about it.

 

[Zibago]

i know the owners of ET...they enjoy and relax on fat couches and drink beer (clear photo i saw) and live in europe

Seriously they have nothing good to say about Pakistan they are affiliates of Herald Tribune but their reporting style is worse than Zee news