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Improved Chinese Stealth Fighter Nears First Flight

You are making a joke on yourself by saying one who invented 'stealth' wont get hit!
I debunked it, yet again and again!
That just goes to show there is no such thing as 'high Chinese IQ'.

When I said that we 'defeated stealth', that does not mean our F-22 cannot be hit. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. It mean we know how to detect and classified low radar observable bodies. It mean we are at least one generation ahead of everyone in this area.

Did you not learned anything from my postings here? Your friend Marty did.
 
No can do, buddy. If the F-117 was not, then neither is the J-20. If anything, the F-117 is more likely superior to the J-20 in terms of 'stealth'. But what do you know? You are nothing but a conscript reject.

You can't be serious, regardless of how good or bad J-20 is, just the way it is designed makes J-20 superior to something of that age.

China has ways of testing how good J-20 is, I'm not an expert but do they test stealth by flying it and see if radar picks up? Or radars at all angles and see what picks up?

But either way China has radars of a similar variety to the US, Type 52D proves the flat AESA radar tech has matured, so it's not like we are going in blind.
 
Personal insults?
Try and get some new insults from your CIA supervisor, the 'conscript reject' line is getting dull.
Butt...Butt...Butt...It is the truth...

They mocked the US by shooting down its best plane :lol:
The overrated USAF got waxed.
OUCH!
Absolutely...They 'waxed' US while their fighters were grounded and their missile batteries had to move around so much that they could only shot down 2 fighters out of 30,000+ sorties.
 
Butt...Butt...Butt...It is the truth...


Absolutely...They 'waxed' US while their fighters were grounded and their missile batteries had to move around so much that they could only shot down 2 fighters out of 30,000+ sorties.

All you do when you can't debate is throw personal insults and when you can exposed you don't reply :lol:

They had no air defences but with the one they could get a hold of, they shot down the best Yankee plane.
 
You can't be serious, regardless of how good or bad J-20 is, just the way it is designed makes J-20 superior to something of that age.
Yes, I am.

Shaping for low radar observability is a whole new ball game. Anyone with any degree of intellectual honesty and proper research will not opine in the absence of hard data, or even anecdotal testimonies. The F-22 have the latter from foreign pilots at Red Flag. What does the J-20 have other than bloviations from clueless Chinese fanboys?

China has ways of testing how good J-20 is, I'm not an expert but do they test stealth by flying it and see if radar picks up? Or radars at all angles and see what picks up?
Either by live flights or by full scale models.

sr-71_radar_range_test.jpg


Care to guess why the SR-71/A-12 is mounted upside down on a pole?

But either way China has radars of a similar variety to the US, Type 52D proves the flat AESA radar tech has matured, so it's not like we are going in blind.
You are assuming that 'maturity' is uniformed across manufacturers. That is not true. Just because China may have developed her own indigenous AESA programs, which I highly doubt to start, that does not mean the accompanying software is on par with ours.

All you do when you can't debate is throw personal insults and when you can exposed you don't reply
You 'exposed' what about me? That I know more about this shit than ALL OF YOU COMBINED? :lol:

They had no air defences but with the one they could get a hold of, they shot down the best Yankee plane.
Of course the Serbs had air defense. Plenty of it. But they were so busy running for their lives because their air force were grounded by B-2s hitting their runways...

b-2_jdam_obvra_runway.jpg
 
Yes, I am.

Shaping for low radar observability is a whole new ball game. Anyone with any degree of intellectual honesty and proper research will not opine in the absence of hard data, or even anecdotal testimonies. The F-22 have the latter from foreign pilots at Red Flag. What does the J-20 have other than bloviations from clueless Chinese fanboys?


Either by live flights or by full scale models.

sr-71_radar_range_test.jpg


Care to guess why the SR-71/A-12 is mounted upside down on a pole?


You are assuming that 'maturity' is uniformed across manufacturers. That is not true. Just because China may have developed her own indigenous AESA programs, which I highly doubt to start, that does not mean the accompanying software is on par with ours.


You 'exposed' what about me? That I know more about this shit than ALL OF YOU COMBINED? :lol:


Of course the Serbs had air defense. Plenty of it. But they were so busy running for their lives because their air force were grounded by B-2s hitting their runways...

b-2_jdam_obvra_runway.jpg

J20blackdragon schooled you many times.

Fake pictures pointing to fake areas :lol:
Yankee propagada at its best.
 
Yes, I am.

Shaping for low radar observability is a whole new ball game. Anyone with any degree of intellectual honesty and proper research will not opine in the absence of hard data, or even anecdotal testimonies. The F-22 have the latter from foreign pilots at Red Flag. What does the J-20 have other than bloviations from clueless Chinese fanboys?

That's not a fair or even accurate criteria, American stealth planes like B-2 was also secret for a long time, the F-22 is still one of the most guarded secrets. While J-20 is by no means a finished product, it is worked on by teams of Chinese scientists who graduated in China, and received training or further education abroad.

The fact it is not shown is by no means a reason for it not to work, as you have shown below it is possible to test it, so it's not like we have to throw it in to an American carrier group to know whether the stealth works or not.

Either by live flights or by full scale models.

sr-71_radar_range_test.jpg


Care to guess why the SR-71/A-12 is mounted upside down on a pole?
I have heard stealth is not the same from different angles, so I'm assuming this is testing the stealth if radar from above.


You are assuming that 'maturity' is uniformed across manufacturers. That is not true. Just because China may have developed her own indigenous AESA programs, which I highly doubt to start, that does not mean the accompanying software is on par with ours.

First as most knows China almost never if ever uses tech that we are uncomfortable with, so the fact it is there means it must have been extensively tested. Also, type 52C didn't use this radar, which means we didn't just slap something that didn't work on it, but instead waited.

Whether or not it is as good, I have no way to prove it, but just as well, you have no way of proving that it isn't as good.

Either way that's not the point of this discussion, as I was merely saying we have radar to test stealth.
 
You mean like this...???

Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft | Updates & Discussions. | Page 256

Here is my rebuttal...

Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft | Updates & Discussions. | Page 257

Am still waiting for your friend to respond and 'school' me.


And the J-20 is nothing more than a fanciful kite.

Why do you run away when you run out of things to counter?
J20blackdragon has asked you multiple times but you ran away.

J-20 is the best stealth fighter. Deal with it. Yankee weapons are not as great as the Yankee brainwashing propaganda tells you.
 
That's not a fair or even accurate criteria, American stealth planes like B-2 was also secret for a long time, the F-22 is still one of the most guarded secrets. While J-20 is by no means a finished product, it is worked on by teams of Chinese scientists who graduated in China, and received training or further education abroad.

The fact it is not shown is by no means a reason for it not to work, as you have shown below it is possible to test it, so it's not like we have to throw it in to an American carrier group to know whether the stealth works or not.
The issue is how credible is any guess about any of these 'stealth' fighter from any country. So far we have US, Russia, China, and possibly India.

Outside of having fun at some of your friends' ignorance, I have always advised more serious minded people to be cautious about making claims, especially when said claims demands/expects numbers, and those numbers will not likely be released to the public any time soon. So while there is nothing wrong Chinese enthusiasts calling the J-20 'stealth', it certainly does give that visual impression, they should stop at making proclamations that the J-20 is 'stealthier' than...so and so. They have no relevant technical experience to start. Not even in the related civilian fields.

As far as Chinese scientists and engineers received training abroad goes, there is not a single 'stealth' curriculum in any university. You learn basic radar education, gain some practical experience, and if you are smart and lucky enough -- boom -- you are now a 'stealth' designer. Now go and design a 'stealth' fighter. Whether the J-20 is as 'stealthy' as the F-117, we will probably never know, or at best wait for a very long time to get any hard data. But when you say 'to work', it is meaningless because there is no accepted standard for what constitutes a 'stealthy' body, especially when the first 'stealth' body have its own data still secret. So what are you going to compare what you have against?

So if you are going to cry about 'fair', do it to your fellow Chinese. They are the ones being unfair in the first place when they make claims they cannot support.

I have heard stealth is not the same from different angles, so I'm assuming this is testing the stealth if radar from above.
A complex body like an aircraft will have uneven radar reflections from all aspects. The only body that have a constant RCS is the sphere. For the SR-71/A-12 example I gave, one possible test is that the aircraft was tested for radar reflections from a ground perspective.

It is counter-intuitive, but bear with me...

Most aircrafts will be detected from below -- the ground. The beam will impact the aircraft's underside. So if you want to test the aircraft's underside, the best way to do it is to mount the aircraft upside down and mount the radar beam from a higher elevation. If you mount the aircraft right side up, you radar will be very close to the ground and you will have limited radar test angles because you can only elevate your model only so high before it becomes dangerous. Plus, the ground will produce its own reflections back up to the aircraft's underside, producing contaminated data.

Something like this...

radar_multi-path_ex.jpg


Substitute the missile for your test radar and you will see the example.

Now turn the aircraft upside down, elevate your test radar to any height you wish, then point it at the aircraft's (up turned) belly. Now you have highly concentrated radar info just for the belly. Any ground reflections will not contaminate the reflections from the (up turned) belly.

How about this for the F-35...

f-35_rcs_range.jpg


Do you understand now?

My point is that the J-20 should have isolated anechoic chamber AND field testings. China can bypass as many tests as she wants. The more tests are bypassed, the less Chinese engineers will know if the J-20 is any good or hopefully comparable to the American 'stealth' fighters. You guys can make all sorts of claims for the J-20 as you want, but think -- have you learned how extensive such a testing regime must be from your other Chinese forums? Nada, amigo.

First as most knows China almost never if ever uses tech that we are uncomfortable with, so the fact it is there means it must have been extensively tested. Also, type 52C didn't use this radar, which means we didn't just slap something that didn't work on it, but instead waited.

Whether or not it is as good, I have no way to prove it, but just as well, you have no way of proving that it isn't as good.

Either way that's not the point of this discussion, as I was merely saying we have radar to test stealth.
The truth is that for 'stealth' bodies testing, you do not need an AESA array. The AESA technology was developed for combat or field operations capabilities. For testing purposes, the plain old planar or even the classical concave dish will do just fine.
 
Why do you run away when you run out of things to counter?
J20blackdragon has asked you multiple times but you ran away.

J-20 is the best stealth fighter. Deal with it. Yankee weapons are not as great as the Yankee brainwashing propaganda tells you.

F-22 is a piece of shit, absolutely a failure compared its predecessor F-15.

Since Lockheed Martin always sucks compared to Boeing/MD, the best thing they can do is to bribe those corrupt officials from Pentagon to pick their aircraft over that of Boeing/MD.

This is the best they can do.

Lockheed bribery scandals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
F-22 is a piece of shit, absolutely a failure compared its predecessor F-15.

Since Lockheed Martin always sucks compared to Boeing/MD, the best thing they can do is to bribe those corrupt officials from Pentagon to pick their aircraft over that of Boeing/MD.

This is their past record.

Lockheed bribery scandals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fine...Then the J-20 is an even bigger piece of shit since China never built any 'stealth' before. Given how corrupt is the PLA, all data about the J-20 must be suspect.
 
can anybody tell me abt chinese stealth bomber?

china had produced a stealth bomber like B2 spirit in 2009.

?????????????????

Only if radar signals are allowed pass-through as mentioned by our Chinese member. The coating is essentially electrical conducting so the issue boils down to composition and method of deposition of the mixture. Gold gives that unique tint. Chemical vapor deposition (CVD) method that are common in semicon products manufacturing processes is the method and it is tricky. The method deposit can be as fine as an atomic layer at a time.

===>>> Chemical vapor deposition <<<===

Since the goal is to reduce the cockpit well's contributorship to total RCS, it is easy to think that coating the canopy will solve that problem. It does not. Once the canopy is coated with an electrical conductor, the canopy itself is now the dominant contributor in lieu of the cockpit well. The canopy, not the cockpit well, is now the problem. May be not as great, but a problem nonetheless.

Here is the difference...

struct_curv_concav_convex.jpg


The cockpit well is concave (top) and an amplifier, usually directional and towards the source direction. The canopy is convex (bottom) and will radiate in all direction. Diffused? Yes, but radiate nonetheless and if the right combination of freq and power exists, it will raise the cockpit area over a threshold and possibly revealing the aircraft. So it is not something as simple as tossing the canopy into the oven, vacuum the oven, and start pumping gas into the oven.

The canopy must be as precisely designed with the goal of redirecting impinging radar signals as any structure on the aircraft. Since the canopy itself is a structure with the highest gradient of curvatures than any other structure, surface waves will be induced as well as allowing pass-through into the cockpit well.

And if there are surface waves, what is the danger...???

radar_groove_wave_reflect.jpg


It is surface discontinuities.

In other words, the canopy glass itself must be of the highest quality possible, as free of microscopic imperfections as possible. After all, what is the point of RCS control -- if the canopy contains microscopic surface pits, valleys, and trenches and now an electrical conducting coating is making surface waves easier to travels into those microscopic concave structures? So the result is: While the coated canopy prevents pass-through into the cockpit well, the canopy glass itself contains enough microscopic pits, valleys, and trenches to radiate, assisted by an electrical conducting coating material, into free space and in all direction.

Thanks for explanation.

J-20 looks quite bulky and fat. I think it is more of a fighter-bomber rather than a dominance fighter like F-22 or PAK-FA.
Different requirements I suppose.

There are several sources which suggest so.
 
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The issue is how credible is any guess about any of these 'stealth' fighter from any country. So far we have US, Russia, China, and possibly India.

Outside of having fun at some of your friends' ignorance, I have always advised more serious minded people to be cautious about making claims, especially when said claims demands/expects numbers, and those numbers will not likely be released to the public any time soon. So while there is nothing wrong Chinese enthusiasts calling the J-20 'stealth', it certainly does give that visual impression, they should stop at making proclamations that the J-20 is 'stealthier' than...so and so. They have no relevant technical experience to start. Not even in the related civilian fields.

As far as Chinese scientists and engineers received training abroad goes, there is not a single 'stealth' curriculum in any university. You learn basic radar education, gain some practical experience, and if you are smart and lucky enough -- boom -- you are now a 'stealth' designer. Now go and design a 'stealth' fighter. Whether the J-20 is as 'stealthy' as the F-117, we will probably never know, or at best wait for a very long time to get any hard data. But when you say 'to work', it is meaningless because there is no accepted standard for what constitutes a 'stealthy' body, especially when the first 'stealth' body have its own data still secret. So what are you going to compare what you have against?

So if you are going to cry about 'fair', do it to your fellow Chinese. They are the ones being unfair in the first place when they make claims they cannot support.

first I can't control what other say, especially since my understanding of physics sucks. I'm not a great math person. Not my field.

But I do agree at this point or most likely any point until actual war, it's hard if not impossible to tell how good a stealth fighter is. But US does have F-22 in Japan, do you guys fly it near Japan? So maybe we got a first hand test of how stealthy it is with our radars. Or maybe you guys only fly it when we don't have any ships around the flight path.

If my understanding is correct, stealth is derived from how a radar works. So as long as someone understand how a radar works, in theory he should know how to avoid it. In practice of course only the most innovative people can, so Western training is more of a opening up to what the world thinks in terms of said field. Not necessarily have to be in for stealth class.


A complex body like an aircraft will have uneven radar reflections from all aspects. The only body that have a constant RCS is the sphere. For the SR-71/A-12 example I gave, one possible test is that the aircraft was tested for radar reflections from a ground perspective.

It is counter-intuitive, but bear with me...

Most aircrafts will be detected from below -- the ground. The beam will impact the aircraft's underside. So if you want to test the aircraft's underside, the best way to do it is to mount the aircraft upside down and mount the radar beam from a higher elevation. If you mount the aircraft right side up, you radar will be very close to the ground and you will have limited radar test angles because you can only elevate your model only so high before it becomes dangerous. Plus, the ground will produce its own reflections back up to the aircraft's underside, producing contaminated data.

Something like this...

radar_multi-path_ex.jpg


Substitute the missile for your test radar and you will see the example.

Now turn the aircraft upside down, elevate your test radar to any height you wish, then point it at the aircraft's (up turned) belly. Now you have highly concentrated radar info just for the belly. Any ground reflections will not contaminate the reflections from the (up turned) belly.

How about this for the F-35...

f-35_rcs_range.jpg


Do you understand now?

My point is that the J-20 should have isolated anechoic chamber AND field testings. China can bypass as many tests as she wants. The more tests are bypassed, the less Chinese engineers will know if the J-20 is any good or hopefully comparable to the American 'stealth' fighters. You guys can make all sorts of claims for the J-20 as you want, but think -- have you learned how extensive such a testing regime must be from your other Chinese forums? Nada, amigo.


The truth is that for 'stealth' bodies testing, you do not need an AESA array. The AESA technology was developed for combat or field operations capabilities. For testing purposes, the plain old planar or even the classical concave dish will do just fine.

Well, whether I'm informed or not doesn't really change how good or bad J-20 is going to be is it, lol. But why would China not know about these tests and more? Not our first fighter to be sure.

But yea as long as a radar is used to test it is fine, unless the US's got some super secret radar in the works.
 
That just goes to show there is no such thing as 'high Chinese IQ'.

When I said that we 'defeated stealth', that does not mean our F-22 cannot be hit. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. It mean we know how to detect and classified low radar observable bodies. It mean we are at least one generation ahead of everyone in this area.

Re-read your own posting please if then which is misleading
It doesnt mean China is not able to detect us "stealth" objects
stealth and detection of stealth are 2 different things, Get it?

My IQ is okay but below my peers who are excellent

Did you not learned anything from my postings here?

They are boring. Are you aware of that?
Cant you be more concise making abstracts / summary with your "copy and paste" materials

Your friend Marty did.
Isnt he great? He has extended his care towards the lonely and senior citizens :cheesy:
.
 
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