Images of Indian Army's flood relief in Kashmir

[janon]

Arab? If someone said i am arab in real life then this is what he should expect.

We are not desperate to prove our non-indigenous origins. Anything east of Sutlej is dravidian land for us.

I didn't say you specifically is a wannabe Arab. But there is no dearth od such fellows in your country. And if anything east of Sutlej is Dravidian in your opinion...well, you know what they say - "opinions are like ahles - everybody has one."

 

[INDIC]

Arab? If someone said i am arab in real life then this is what he should expect

.

We are not desperate to prove our non-indigenous origins. Anything east of Sutlej is dravidian land for us.

What about West of the Indus.

 

[janon]

The comment of @oye_natta and @Shahmir kashmir gave you them impression why Pakistanis are still very fearing of people expressing their regional Sindhi, Punjabi, Baloch, Pashtun identity because unlike Indians, they don't have a historical Pakistani identity.

Yep. Poor @Shahmir kashmir thinks that if he brings this revelation (!) to us that Kashmiris have a different language and culture, we would be surprised or deny it. He doesn't know that every Indian state has its own different language and culture and tradition and even ethnicities. That is nothing new to us, we who have been nurtured in the ideal of "Anekta main ekta". But for him and people like him, that's enough reason to pick up a kalashnikov and start shooting, or blowing up. That explains why his country is in the state it is.

 

[dil_dil]

I didn't say you specifically is a wannabe Arab. But there is no dearth od such fellows in your country. And if anything east of Sutlej is Dravidian in your opinion...well, you know what they say - "opinions are like ahles - everybody has one."

Like 2% say that at most, and even they never claim to be arab. But claim ancient ancestry. And yes east of Sutlej is dravidian land, not a opinion anymore but fact.

What about West of the Indus.

West of Indus is Pashtun area, but KPK people are mostly dardic and indo-aryan origin. So part of indus valley.

 

[INDIC]

But claim ancient ancestry. And yes east of Indus is Indian land, not a opinion anymore but fact.

I corrected it for you.

 

[Ahmad Sajjad Paracha]

Oh please, your leaders and law have also persecuted citizens, especially minority groups like Ahmedis. But I did not say "leaders", I said Pakistanis. Pakistanis in Pakistan have killed far more muslims than Indians have done. (As I said before, any murder is condemnable, wherever it happens.) Mr Modi has also not killed anybody. It was hindu and muslim civilians in Gujarat that rioted and killed each other after a muslim mob burned a train full of hindu pilgrims in 2002, in a state that was prone to such violence for a long time. Since then, Gujarat has enjoyed the first riot free decade since independence. So Pakistanis talking about 2002 violence in India and desperately trying to imply that our PM has murdered people, are liars and hypocrites - liars because Mr Modi has not murdered anybody, and hypocrites because Pakistanis have killed more people than Indians ever have or ever will. Not only Talibs, but also religious riots that occasionally happen, for example the anti christian riots recently.

And yes, there is a civil war in Pakistan, which is why your military is presently doing a campaign called zarb-e-something. They are not there on holiday.

You are completely mistaken about Sikhs in Indian armed forces. The previous army chief was a Sikh, there have been other Sikh chiefs in the other services in the past, including a five starred marshal of the air force, Arjan Singh - the only person to have risen to that position in the IAF. Not to mention all the Lt generals and Major generals in the army. Please provide me the data from which you concluded that the top ranks exclude Sikhs; don't simply make up nonsense. The Indian army is one of the most secular organizations in the Secular Republic of India, and promotion is purely based on merit and seniority. There has never been any instance of a Sikh being denied promotion due to his faith - so instead of belieivng what you want to believe, look at the data instead. That's a general lesson for Pakistanis.

About MMS - when people say he was a puppet, they mean it in a political sense. Religion has nothing to do with it. If that's what you think, who was he a puppet to? Sonia Gandhi, which is what everybody alleges. So are you saying that Roman Catholics are secretly controlling India using their Sikh puppets? There has to be a limit for nonsense.


I can understand your frustration - India is efficiently carrying out a mammoth rescue mission and saving as many lives as possible using every resource at our command, while Pakistanis are throwing their hands up in despair and fighting silly political squabbles. So of course you have to make these snide remarks about leaders and military personnel who are doing a much better job than yours. It's called jealousy.

My friend I think we need to get on realistic ground first of all the fulmination going in our country is against vote rigging that is very important for our democracy to get strenghtened and is purely not a squabble. Operation going on is not a civil war . Stop exacerbating the operation named zarb-e-azb as civil wars are against separitists movements and talabans are neither separitists nor they belong from pakistan they are sent by Afghans and that is why if there is some sort of crisis in TTP, Afghani talabans arrives to finish that.
We donot accuse your PM to be a muderrer your own political party MIM and your well known politician Akbaruddin owaisi accuses Modi and BJP to be responsible for what happened in 2002 in Gujrat we donot have any problem with that but we are having woes of demolishation of Babri masjid because we are Muslims.Why would we malign your PM because we are jealous thats the peak of hilarity. Its your country we donot have to do anything with that.We are passionate about making our own country prosperous what we will be done with if our youth keeps the passion same.
Church that was set on ablaze was due to blasephemy that was done by christians and our government took strict notice of that and nothing else was done or is done against the ethics of christians. There is a minute killing of Ahmadis and our media aggravates for its rating Sikhs are living peacefully in our country we donot force them to unveil their heads or to do any other thing.
Last but not least keeping our cultural rivalaries aside and being honest fate of kashmir cannot be decided by bellingering among ourselves and forcefully sending the army and fight but by plebscite and even U.N supports it. Our media is our problem it is maligning everything in our country by which our international reputation is getting worse day by day. You have got tremendous media internationally now see we both are facing flood but still our flood is being exacerbated day by day by our media and yours is not even discussed so much internationally which is very good.

 

[dil_dil]

I corrected it for you.

I can't help you because you are desperate to claim non-bhangi origin.

 

[INDIC]

I can't help you because you are desperate to claim non-bhangi origin.

 

[janon]

My friend I think we need to get on realistic ground first of all the fulmination going in our country is against vote rigging that is very important for our democracy to get strenghtened and is purely not a squabble. Operation going on is not a civil war . Stop exacerbating the operation named zarb-e-azb as civil wars are against separitists movements and talabans are neither separitists nor they belong from pakistan they are sent by Afghans and that is why if there is some sort of crisis in TTP, Afghani talabans arrives to finish that.
We donot accuse your PM to be a muderrer your own political party MIM and your well known politician Akbaruddin owaisi accuses Modi and BJP to be responsible for what happened in 2002 in Gujrat we donot have any problem with that but we are having woes of demolishation of Babri masjid because we are Muslims.Why would we malign your PM because we are jealous thats the peak of hilarity. Its your country we donot have to do anything with that.We are passionate about making our own country prosperous what we will be done with if our youth keeps the passion same.
Church that was set on ablaze was due to blasephemy that was done by christians and our government took strict notice of that and nothing else was done or is done against the ethics of christians. There is a minute killing of Ahmadis and our media aggravates for its rating Sikhs are living peacefully in our country we donot force them to unveil their heads or to do any other thing.
Last but not least keeping our cultural rivalaries aside and being honest fate of kashmir cannot be decided by bellingering among ourselves and forcefully sending the army and fight but by plebscite and even U.N supports it. Our media is our problem it is maligning everything in our country by which our international reputation is getting worse day by day. You have got tremendous media internationally now see we both are facing flood but still our flood is being exacerbated day by day by our media and yours is not even discussed so much internationally which is very good.

OK, you are discussing civilly without insulting or trying to score points, so let me respond.

1) Of course politicians accuse each other of all things, is that new? Accusations and allegations will always go on between politicians. But our independent judiciary, all the courts including the Supreme court of India have decided that such accusations against Modi do not hold any water. There was no evidence whatsoever to link Modi to the riots. Every independent commision has concluded that. So it is time Pakistanis stop repeating that tired old lie. The horrible riots in Gujarat in 2002 were perpetrated by hindu and muslim mobs, not by Modi.

2) It wasn't just a church set ablaze, there were also riots. And similar riots have happened in the past as well. "Blasphemy" is not an excuse for mass murder. We do not live in the dark ages of Europe, when every perceived blasphemy led to entire towns being massacred. Besides that, Shias have been massacred with guns and bombs. Hazaras in public places, Shia pilgrim in buses, etc etc. So Pakistanis don't have the moral legitimacy to criticize Indians on this matter - 2002 was the last major religious riot in the country. (An even worse one happened in 1984.) Both Indians and Pakistanis have a bad record of religious hatred - but India has been improving tremendously in that regard.

3) Babri mosque should not have been demolished. I wonder though if you are aware of how many thousands of temples were razed to the ground by muslims in the past few hundred years? Including the place where Babri mosque used to be - that was built after destroying a Ram temple. Rama is a major god for hindus, and that spot is his supposed birthplace. Do you think muslims would tolerate a hindu temple on Mecca or Medina or some such holy site? That being said, the mosque should NOT have been destroyed - a temple should have been built alongside. I do not support destroying anything.

4) About minority rights in general (since you mentiones that Sikhs and ahmedis are treated wel), you have to admit that they are still considered lesser citizens than you. In India, everybody is equal in the eyes of the state, irrespective of caste or creed. In Pakistan, can a sikh ever be PM? Even a puppet one, as you earlier charged MMS of being? Can a christian? A hindu? You also said (erroneously) that sikhs are not represented in the top ranks of the Indian army - that's a complete fib, as I explained. Now you tell me, how many sikhs or hindus have been army chiefs or even Lt generals or Major generals in the Pak army? BTW, if an Ahmedi has to get a passport, s/he has to sign declaration stating that their religion is false and that their prophet is an impostor. Do you see India making muslims sign something like that about Muhammad? I can go on and on - the fact of the matter is that India's secular credentials are far, far better than Pakistan's, a few riots notwithstanding.

5) About Kashmir: As far as we Indians are concerned, there is no "Kashmir issue" anymore, other than our will to prevent Pakistani terrorists from sneaking in and causing trouble. It is a state of the Indian union, just like any other. (With a few additional priviledges though.) The UN resolution and all that happened 60 years ago; since then, a lot of changes have happened. Pakistan, which kept trying to take our Kashmir, got cut in two, and has been permanently rendered incapable of daring to challeneg us openly again. More to the point, we have put in our blood and sweat to make Kashmir what it is today - not just the blood of our soldiers who defended it, but the sweat and money of the Indian taxpayers that built all the civic infrastructure in the state. After having painstakingly built roads and railways and schools and universities and hospitals and airports and tunnels and businesses in the state over the past 60 years, do you really think we care anymore for Pakistan's claims, or the UN resolution signed with a Pakistan that was twice its size way back then?

I'll put it quite simply - India will not give an inch of Kashmir away. I'm not saying this to sound combative; it is the reality. Indians have always considered it part of India, and now the region is economically well integrated into India. Nobody - and I mean NOBODY - in India, of any major political party or religious organization ever speaks about dissociating Kashmir from India.

50 years back, India was a dirt poor country with no infrastructure or prospects. But today, Kashmiris know the value of being part of the multi trillion dollar economy of India. Kashmir by itself cannot be a viable state for long - not without the immense resources of the Indian union. Just take what is gong on now for instance - could an independent Kashmir carry out such a massive rescue effort? No, that needs a mammoth army and civil defence force, which only large countries can have. 50 years ago, Kashmiris may have even been better off being with Pak. But today, it is plainly evident that being part of India is far preferrable to joining Pakistan or being a tiny land locked country with no resources. That is why seperatists do not get any attention anymore, and ordinary Kashmiris repose faith in the Indian democracy - they voted in record numers in the past election. Like any other state, they have their own state govt and representation in the central govt. I'm sure you being a Paksitani would appreciate the fact that such political and social stability coupled with increasing economic prospects is an exception, not a norm in the neighbourhood.

About the last line in your post, there is a reason for that - the floods don't affect India as drastically as it affects Pak. The area affected is a small percentage of our total area, one state among 29 states. But a large chunk of Pak has been affected.

 

[sherin616]

sirf jammu tak proud ha uska agee kashmir ha and they dont help there

I don't know hindi

 

[cloud_9]

 

[cloud_9]

https://twitter.com/x/status/509254850107150336

 

[Ahmad Sajjad Paracha]

OK, you are discussing civilly without insulting or trying to score points, so let me respond.

1) Of course politicians accuse each other of all things, is that new? Accusations and allegations will always go on between politicians. But our independent judiciary, all the courts including the Supreme court of India have decided that such accusations against Modi do not hold any water. There was no evidence whatsoever to link Modi to the riots. Every independent commision has concluded that. So it is time Pakistanis stop repeating that tired old lie. The horrible riots in Gujarat in 2002 were perpetrated by hindu and muslim mobs, not by Modi.

2) It wasn't just a church set ablaze, there were also riots. And similar riots have happened in the past as well. "Blasphemy" is not an excuse for mass murder. We do not live in the dark ages of Europe, when every perceived blasphemy led to entire towns being massacred. Besides that, Shias have been massacred with guns and bombs. Hazaras in public places, Shia pilgrim in buses, etc etc. So Pakistanis don't have the moral legitimacy to criticize Indians on this matter - 2002 was the last major religious riot in the country. (An even worse one happened in 1984.) Both Indians and Pakistanis have a bad record of religious hatred - but India has been improving tremendously in that regard.

3) Babri mosque should not have been demolished. I wonder though if you are aware of how many thousands of temples were razed to the ground by muslims in the past few hundred years? Including the place where Babri mosque used to be - that was built after destroying a Ram temple. Rama is a major god for hindus, and that spot is his supposed birthplace. Do you think muslims would tolerate a hindu temple on Mecca or Medina or some such holy site? That being said, the mosque should NOT have been destroyed - a temple should have been built alongside. I do not support destroying anything.

4) About minority rights in general (since you mentiones that Sikhs and ahmedis are treated wel), you have to admit that they are still considered lesser citizens than you. In India, everybody is equal in the eyes of the state, irrespective of caste or creed. In Pakistan, can a sikh ever be PM? Even a puppet one, as you earlier charged MMS of being? Can a christian? A hindu? You also said (erroneously) that sikhs are not represented in the top ranks of the Indian army - that's a complete fib, as I explained. Now you tell me, how many sikhs or hindus have been army chiefs or even Lt generals or Major generals in the Pak army? BTW, if an Ahmedi has to get a passport, s/he has to sign declaration stating that their religion is false and that their prophet is an impostor. Do you see India making muslims sign something like that about Muhammad? I can go on and on - the fact of the matter is that India's secular credentials are far, far better than Pakistan's, a few riots notwithstanding.

5) About Kashmir: As far as we Indians are concerned, there is no "Kashmir issue" anymore, other than our will to prevent Pakistani terrorists from sneaking in and causing trouble. It is a state of the Indian union, just like any other. (With a few additional priviledges though.) The UN resolution and all that happened 60 years ago; since then, a lot of changes have happened. Pakistan, which kept trying to take our Kashmir, got cut in two, and has been permanently rendered incapable of daring to challeneg us openly again. More to the point, we have put in our blood and sweat to make Kashmir what it is today - not just the blood of our soldiers who defended it, but the sweat and money of the Indian taxpayers that built all the civic infrastructure in the state. After having painstakingly built roads and railways and schools and universities and hospitals and airports and tunnels and businesses in the state over the past 60 years, do you really think we care anymore for Pakistan's claims, or the UN resolution signed with a Pakistan that was twice its size way back then?

I'll put it quite simply - India will not give an inch of Kashmir away. I'm not saying this to sound combative; it is the reality. Indians have always considered it part of India, and now the region is economically well integrated into India. Nobody - and I mean NOBODY - in India, of any major political party or religious organization ever speaks about dissociating Kashmir from India.

50 years back, India was a dirt poor country with no infrastructure or prospects. But today, Kashmiris know the value of being part of the multi trillion dollar economy of India. Kashmir by itself cannot be a viable state for long - not without the immense resources of the Indian union. Just take what is gong on now for instance - could an independent Kashmir carry out such a massive rescue effort? No, that needs a mammoth army and civil defence force, which only large countries can have. 50 years ago, Kashmiris may have even been better off being with Pak. But today, it is plainly evident that being part of India is far preferrable to joining Pakistan or being a tiny land locked country with no resources. That is why seperatists do not get any attention anymore, and ordinary Kashmiris repose faith in the Indian democracy - they voted in record numers in the past election. Like any other state, they have their own state govt and representation in the central govt. I'm sure you being a Paksitani would appreciate the fact that such political and social stability coupled with increasing economic prospects is an exception, not a norm in the neighbourhood.

About the last line in your post, there is a reason for that - the floods don't affect India as drastically as it affects Pak. The area affected is a small percentage of our total area, one state among 29 states. But a large chunk of Pak has been affected.

My dear,you have got some flaws in your perceptions
First of all you are mixing the religions Ahmadis claim to be Muslims but their faiths are not of Muslims now consider someone claiming himself to be Hindu and saying something against your kalimaa or ganesh.You said you donot do any such kind of thing to Muslims when they apply for passport,now see they are Muslims they donot claim to be a Hindu if they would claim themselves to be hindus then you could say them to believe in what your religion says we donnot force christians,sikhs or Hindus to condemn what they believe.This is religion my friend and no one can edit our or anybody else's religion which ahmedis are trying to do,you dont know as you are living in India.
Secondly regarding riots you are using language of our media believe me our media is our worst foe killing of sunni shia occurs but not that much as our media tells. Hazara killing was the biggest killing of shias and even in that less than hundred shias were killed. You said that not only church was not set on ablaze there were other acts against the inteterst of Christian,this is purely a vague statement nothing else was done.You said riots in India are less than in Pakistan.I hate to interefere in internal matters of other but I have to say that 2000 people were killed in Gujrat. No killing with such amount of killing in Pakistan was ever happened. In Assam more than 6000 people were killed in 2012 claiming them to be bengali and your own Hindu politician said ''hyderabad mein aik kuta hai jo khud ko sher samjata hai lakin hum ney gujrat aur assam mein itni lashay gira di''.
Thirdly for sikhs,we have just got thousands of sikhs not millions of sikhs like you but still our parliament includes sikh. Our KPK asembly has got ministry of minority and there is a lot of fund allocated to them.In Hasaanabdal we are granting protection for holy place of sikhs and its sanctity is respected by everyone.
Shias are having 40% share in bureacracy and our last government was of Shias too as PPP is being lead by Zardari who is Shia.Currently our Sindh government is of shias too.
For kashmir you cannot ignore U.N and if kashmir shows its faith in India then why dont you hold referendum in India and show the faith of kashmiris in you to International community and finish the chaos.
End of the story there are flaws in perceptions on both side so I think we should end the debate here as it is going to prolonge for infinite time so we both should end our discussion here no more highlighting of each other now.

 

[Bombaywalla]

 

[cloud_9]

They have gone back to their old habits,pelted stones at Army vehicles