IAF may not get to fly LCA before 2010

[Samudra]

Oh its was something we always knew!

The IOC will be obtained sometime in 2008 and the FOC around 2010.LSP will go on until then - at the rate of eight aircraft per year.Enough GE engines have been ordered for that.So, atleast one squadron of LCA is going to be operation by the end of this decade.

I bet they'll get the best EW gear around - they're naming it already - Mayavi(means Magician), through a JV with Israelis who are going to be use the same stuff in their JSF(if they get any).Elta's already put a radar in one of the prototypes.:smile:

I tell you now gentlemen, if this plane is going to get produced in numbers say more than a hundred it WILL BE MADE into a potent platform with all the bells and whistles they can put on it.

Never has the Indian consumer had so many chances.The Americans, the French, the Russians and the Israelis - everybody wants to sell stuff to India.

Mix and match a few is all we have to do (its easier said than done though)

Meanwhile, lets hear when the much praised JF-17 is getting its IOC or atleast the number of sorties its prototyple have flown.Anybody?

:flag:

 

[RAPTOR]

I believe its time that hindoostan aeronautics limited should keep producing the Jaguars and MKI's and finally have the balls to kill the "LCA" once and for all. It is useless and an embarassment for the great superpower hindoostan.

 

[Neo]

I tell you now gentlemen, if this plane is going to get produced in numbers say more than a hundred it WILL BE MADE into a potent platform with all the bells and whistles they can put on it.

What about the unit costs if the project is scaled down to merely 100+?
Is it still feasible?
What about exports, is there an export verion?

 

[RAPTOR]

What about the unit costs if the project is scaled down to merely 100+?
Is it still feasible?
What about exports, is there an export verion?

Who do you think is going to buy that thing? Ghana? Congo?

 

[sigatoka]

Who do you think is going to buy that thing? Ghana? Congo?

lol, i think they would rather buy a Mig-29 or Su-27.

 

[Samudra]

What about the unit costs if the project is scaled down to merely 100+?

Thats a minimum number I pulled from the back of my head.

We do not know how many will be produced.Somebody who met some pilots who flew the Tejas said IAF is quite serious with the LCA - meaning we could see large orders - which I think will be atleast around one hundred.

Is it still feasible?

If the IAF is willing to put its weight behind the LCA - yes it is.

What about exports, is there an export verion?

Nopes.

 

[Arrow]

What about the unit costs if the project is scaled down to merely 100+?
Is it still feasible?

Yes. Because the Indian Air Force depends on the Indian economy, and the Indian economy can take it. Original costs apart, the max this bird will go to is the ~30 Mln USD figure, and thats still substantially lower than a Mirage 2000-5 or the like.

What about exports, is there an export verion?

Not yet. Local orders are going to be running for a while.

 

[desimorty]

According to Force the numbers will be 220 for the InAF and 40 for the InN. There is no need for an export success. The Tejas will not promise it because like i've said before it was designed for India. Its a interceptor for numbers with easy handling and maintenance.

 

[Munir]

Yes. Because the Indian Air Force depends on the Indian economy, and the Indian economy can take it. Original costs apart, the max this bird will go to is the ~30 Mln USD figure, and thats still substantially lower than a Mirage 2000-5 or the like.




Not yet. Local orders are going to be running for a while.

India would love to export some. There are no buyers. That is the reality.

India is indeed larger and can do more but even for IAF there is little hope if they keep buying different systems over and over again. And they do now and then underestimate the costs. Look at cost of inducting LCA. Or costs of building MKI. Let us even think about 125 FA18E/F... There you are with a system that is expensive to buy and to fly. There you have the same with Mig29OVT or MKI... Bigger in size does not make it better or easier. The Ghorsov sounded cheap but I am intrested in the total costs at this moment... And what will it add to the power? Not much.

 

[Jay_]

India would love to export some. There are no buyers. That is the reality.

Ilogical. First India has to produce enought to equip IAF, only then it can even think about exports.

India is indeed larger and can do more but even for IAF there is little hope if they keep buying different systems over and over again. And they do now and then underestimate the costs. Look at cost of inducting LCA. Or costs of building MKI.

If you are inducting a new generation fighter, you are bound to have those costs. It is infact counted under IAF budget from training to writing a operational doctrine.

The Ghorsov sounded cheap but I am intrested in the total costs at this moment... And what will it add to the power? Not much.

Actually it adds much more, if you read about the Far eastern combined arms command.

 

[Munir]

Good reply Jay.

Let me answer it.

>>>Ilogical. First India has to produce enought to equip IAF, only then it can even think about exports.

Pakistan did parts of K8. Yet it slowed buying K8 cause cash could be earned. Like any other nation... Export makes cash makes better product. India is extremely busy in trying to sell Druv or other products. Why else would they fly around to Le Bourget or UK? Reality is that cause theseproducts are not fully Indian and do not offer specific advantages it will not be bought. Look at Fc1. Asap export...

>>>If you are inducting a new generation fighter, you are bound to have those costs. It is infact counted under IAF budget from training to writing a operational doctrine.

LCA is no longer a new fighter it is almost antique. MKI was predicted to cost 4 billion yet it reached double figures. It is no longer inducting but almost failing. Late and over budget. Parts are imported.LCA is not a new generation neither is MKI. EF2000 or Rafale... JSF or F22...


>>>Actually it adds much more, if you read about the Far eastern combined arms command.

One ship that is extremely vulnerable? At the moment the area is filled with CM, harpoons, exocets, AWACS (either Erieye or Chinese Hawkey), MRPA... You still call a nation that has more then a few airbases close to the border with Pakistan more potent if they have a carrier? The carrier and Awacs will be the big targets for Pakistan... Just like the past they will park the carrier close to Bangladesh... They just bought it for superpower aspirations but practicle it has zero value in Pak-India conflict. Against China it has even less value. .

 

[Jay_]

Pakistan did parts of K8. Yet it slowed buying K8 cause cash could be earned. Like any other nation... Export makes cash makes better product.

Again, illogical. IAF needs these planes than any other export nations. HAL does not care about "export" cash or "local" cash, all they need is cash.

India is extremely busy in trying to sell Druv or other products. Why else would they fly around to Le Bourget or UK? Reality is that cause these products are not fully Indian and do not offer specific advantages it will not be bought.

Dhruv has been already inducted in the forces, and will be exported, only after local orders are completed.

Look at Fc1. Asap export...

Thats coz PLAAF does not need that plane. Now take the case of J-10, when will Pakistan ever lay its hands on one?

LCA is no longer a new fighter it is almost antique.

What ever suits your cup of tea, LCA is a new fighter for IAF and so my point is still valid.

MKI was predicted to cost 4 billion yet it reached double figures. It is no longer inducting but almost failing.

MKI's cost about $8.2 billion per CAG report, Is it double figures? Failing? The last time I checked the newly inducted MKI's are still in Squadron service and MKI's are being assembled locally.

Late and over budget. Parts are imported.LCA is not a new generation neither is MKI. EF2000 or Rafale... JSF or F22...

Can you name one A/c that was on budget on time? Also can you name one aircraft where parts are not imported?

One ship that is extremely vulnerable?

Its not even inducted, yet you seem to be so sure, that its vulnerable?

At the moment the area is filled with CM, harpoons, exocets, AWACS (either Erieye or Chinese Hawkey),

Do you know where Andaman's are and the range of other rival air bases in the area?

MRPA... You still call a nation that has more then a few airbases close to the border with Pakistan more potent if they have a carrier? The carrier and Awacs will be the big targets for Pakistan...

Boo...not worth a reply.

Just like the past they will park the carrier close to Bangladesh...

Ugm ok and?

They just bought it for superpower aspirations but practicle it has zero value in Pak-India conflict. Against China it has even less value. .

I cannot duscuss Andaman's with a person who has absolutely no clue about geography. My bad..

 

[Averroes]

What ever suits your cup of tea, LCA is a new fighter for IAF and so my point is still valid.

I think the point he's trying to make is that, in comparison with the types of planes coming out of the west, the LCA falls behind. Which is ofcourse nothing bad, because they've had a century of experience in that field.

The last time I checked the newly inducted MKI's are still in Squadron service and MKI's are being assembled locally.

India took a very good move in assembling them locally. Good step towards self suffiency.

Can you name one A/c that was on budget on time? Also can you name one aircraft where parts are not imported?

You can't really expect it to be 100 % indigenous, it's the effort of assembling it, designing it, testing it by yourself that is counted as indigenous, which LCA is.

 

[Jay_]

I think the point he's trying to make is that, in comparison with the types of planes coming out of the west, the LCA falls behind. Which is ofcourse nothing bad, because they've had a century of experience in that field.

Actually, its irrelevant for the discussion. LCA is a new fighter and India will anyway spend money in developing training, tactics, doctrines for it.

India took a very good move in assembling them locally. Good step towards self suffiency.

India is manufacturing them now, ground-up, including the engines.

You can't really expect it to be 100 % indigenous, it's the effort of assembling it, designing it, testing it by yourself that is counted as indigenous, which LCA is.

Yep, so his contention that it has imported parts does not hold ground or water.

 

[Munir]

As usual one cannot feeling the arrogance of blaiming the other for being illogical or no clue about geography. And it is usual the Ibndians that find LCA on time and MKI on budget. Hardly believe that export is not intresting. I think your logic is more questionable then mine. If Druv was that good why would they need marketing of Israeli? Why would they give them away for nothing? Why would all the parts need to be imported? the fact is that being one of the largest nation in the world it has little to sell when it comes to weapon technology. A lot of projects are thrown into the world with hot air but in reality it is not even accepted by its own forces. Hall does not care about cash? Asap something is asked it is all over the net in in Indian newspapers... Just like if an Indian wins something... You do remmeber that Nasa guy from India? Well. I rest my case. Your data about MKI is irrelevant and even disputed by your own nation. LCA a new fighter? Get realistic. It is way less then Mirage 2000H and not even finished while Mirage is ended production. Comparing a budget or on time... Well I agree with totally new projects like F22 or Gripen... But something that has started that long ago like LCA one can not talk about late. Just read your own press...

About J10 coming to Pak... It reminds me of your peoples remark about paperplane.. O that F16 block52 is nothing serious and will never delivered to Pak. I have seen Druv and IJT. I have talked to engineers and pilots. Don't tell me that you do know more then that.

Again, illogical. IAF needs these planes than any other export nations. HAL does not care about "export" cash or "local" cash, all they need is cash.


Dhruv has been already inducted in the forces, and will be exported, only after local orders are completed.


Thats coz PLAAF does not need that plane. Now take the case of J-10, when will Pakistan ever lay its hands on one?


What ever suits your cup of tea, LCA is a new fighter for IAF and so my point is still valid.

MKI's cost about $8.2 billion per CAG report, Is it double figures? Failing? The last time I checked the newly inducted MKI's are still in Squadron service and MKI's are being assembled locally.


Can you name one A/c that was on budget on time? Also can you name one aircraft where parts are not imported?


Its not even inducted, yet you seem to be so sure, that its vulnerable?


Do you know where Andaman's are and the range of other rival air bases in the area?


Boo...not worth a reply.


Ugm ok and?


I cannot duscuss Andaman's with a person who has absolutely no clue about geography. My bad..