IAF faces shortage of fighter jets

[t-birds]

You only need to read what the Lt General (malaymishra123 ), had written to know, that Pakistan has some big problems.... especially with regards to being operationally ready...!!!

 

[Energon]

To be precise, the total fleet will be 230 Su-30MKI's.


69 MiG 29's. And calling it an 'upgrade' is insulting to it. Its being completely changed.


I think the number is 49, but im not sure here. And the Mirage 2000 will be converted to Mirage 2009'+'. Many stand alone elements from the Rafale will be put in(or so i'v read).


True. AFAIK, once the MRCA is signed, and slowly but steadily, LCA will start getting inducted, around 2015, you will see a VERY VERY capable and proper sized IAF.

I was making conservative estimates taking into account a heightened attrition rate and a longer timeline for the induction of all 230 Su30MKIs. It should also be noted that if the economy stays strong and more funds are availed to the air force that the number of Sukhois may actually increase. Also, the IAF is still keeping a close watch on the developments of the Su34 fullback EW and strike variants.

The human resources issues however are a lot more grave.

 

[Shoaib_Sham]

I really find it hard to digest that why is IAF so much worried about its fighters depletion. They have every thing not everything but most of things going in the right direction when compared to Pakistan. Pakistan is decade behind IAF. What we are planning to get today; aint good enough to face what it is gonna face tomorrow. At least I am not going GAAA GAAA on JF-17 thunder.... I dont see a point. Obviously we will be in even worse condition without them. but we aint in a acceptable shape even with them.
Why dont we increase the number of J-10's. I am not military or an AirForce expert by any means. But seriously JF-17 does not look like a HiTech aircraft ( may be it is). Even if it , I am just inclined to compare it to su30 MKI but the results aint that positive for JF-17.
I think our focus should have been getting the ToT of the best of the best rader technology may be AESA. If not Tot than some sort of agreement for continuous supply. We already have two platforms JF-17( an average one) and J-10 ( an excellent platform). Like four major components involved in an aircraft are like
1) airframe
2) avionics + radar
3) weapons suite closely coupled with component
4) Engine.
Mainly the 2 and the 3 component which we have issues in J-10. We simply should have focused in getting best possible of these two components. Cause we already have airframes and supporting Engines.
I don’t find F-16 long term, they may be a good immediate option but not the best futuristic option.
May be I am suggesting rubbish cause this aint my area of expertise.

Besides that J-10 looks cool isn’t it ?

 

[Contrarian]

I was making conservative estimates taking into account a heightened attrition rate and a longer timeline for the induction of all 230 Su30MKIs. It should also be noted that if the economy stays strong and more funds are availed to the air force that the number of Sukhois may actually increase.

Considering the depleting force levels, India made additional payments to Russia and fastracked the process at HAL as well. Several planes that were to be made from scratch here, would have their kits sourced from Russia to increase the per year capacity at HAL.

All the 230MKI's would be in India around ~2016, from the previous schedule of 2020.

And i dont think IAF would want more MKI's. It'd have a pretty big H-MRCA fleet of 230MKI's. What it wants now is more M-MRCA's and L-MRCA's. The next HMRCA would be the T-50 i think, otherwise IAF would be very top heavy.

The MKI's would also go for an MLU around 2013/4. The next inductions would be the MMRCA and LCA.

Also, the IAF is still keeping a close watch on the developments of the Su34 fullback EW and strike variants.

No idea on that mate.

The human resources issues however are a lot more grave.

The 6th pay commission left some gaping holes.

 

[Keysersoze]

Are the planes that Pakistan is acquiring from the United States and China able enough to deal with India's Sukhoi-30MKIs??? I heard that the JF-17's are not 4th generation fighter jets and are consistantly facing delays, either with the engines or better avionics...? I also heard that the F-16's the US was supplying was not as good as the previous jets, (F-16 Vipers). Can anyone share some light to this?

Ok If i were to guess, I would say you are trolling here .....maybe you outta change your flag?

1)Yes they are.... 100 (approx) F-16's, 36 J10's and a few others that are not common knowledge........ (not forgetting the 250 JF-17's which all would have BVR capability as well as some good avionics) AMRAAMS, SD-10 and MICA, Erieye,HAwkeye 2000 and a Chinese AWACS.

2)I don't know what you have "heard" But the JF-17 has not had any delays at all. There were many touted by others. But none have materialised Engines? no problem! Avionics? No problem! weapons? No problem!

3) The F-16's being supplied are the same BLKs being used by the USAF and the IsAF. So wrong again!

SO in conclusion....Either ditch your sources (cause they are making you look stupid)or stop trolling.

 

[Keysersoze]

These 40 year old jets that you are refering to seem like a death trap to me, and young pilots which are being forced to fly them are being sent to their deaths at an early stage even before there are any signs of war and that to me sounds unnecessary and justified. I do not believe any country could be operationally ready flying that piece of junk, especially against Su30MKIs...!!! It would be more wiser to rely on SAM...

With regards to the JF-17's, being on track, it seems like all our prayers being answered. Though, i heard the annual production of this aircraft is only 8, with half going to China under an agreement between the two countries. Do you believe that this is sufficient enough to replace all prehistoric jets...?

Well I would not worry about the MKI's we have it on good sources that only 12-18 of them are operational..........

Stop trolling............
You obviously have no knowledge about the PAF

 

[Keysersoze]

You only need to read what the Lt General (malaymishra123 ), had written to know, that Pakistan has some big problems.... especially with regards to being operationally ready...!!!

Malay whilst a knowledgeable and intelligent poster from India is not privy to the inner workings of the PAF.


Now stop trolling......or you will be banished!

 

[z9-ec]

Good reply Keysersoze!

T-birds assessments are way off, considering he thinks F-16 blk 50 is inferior to current PAF F-16s.

He failed to mention the Erieye system, JF-17 deliveries, air-to-air refuelers, ALCM, SD-10, TPS-77 and MLUs.

Yes, SU-30 MKI is lethal but he failed to mention that PLAAF already operates Su-30s.

distortion of facts by someone in disguise.

 

[blain2]

These 40 year old jets that you are refering to seem like a death trap to me, and young pilots which are being forced to fly them are being sent to their deaths at an early stage even before there are any signs of war and that to me sounds unnecessary and justified. I do not believe any country could be operationally ready flying that piece of junk, especially against Su30MKIs...!!! It would be more wiser to rely on SAM...

With regards to the JF-17's, being on track, it seems like all our prayers being answered. Though, i heard the annual production of this aircraft is only 8, with half going to China under an agreement between the two countries. Do you believe that this is sufficient enough to replace all prehistoric jets...?

Your perception and the reality are quite different. Judging by the way you refer to aircraft in service, I'd venture that either you are clueless or are acting that way (have seen both types on the forum and in most cases posts like the ones above by you would lead to your banning). Accidents happen and will continue to happen. At the end of 2008, you can look back and see the rate of attrition in the PAF and it won't be any worse than the other Air Forces flying at similar rate (180 hours/year).

As far as JF-17 prod. is concerned, its 8 and 8 (16 per year) to start off the program. There has been no mention of what the upper limit is on the production run in either of the countries (Pakistan and China) when the production ramps up. PAF will replace the aging sqns first even if that means that PLAAF has to wait a bit longer for the type.

 

[ejaz007]

I think there is some confusion regarding the production rate of JF-17. The figure of 16 quoted is for first year. After that the production rate shall be atleast 20 aircraft per year and this rate is subject to change depending on the situation.

As far as capability of JF-17 is concerned the plane has been slightly under rated by some people. It is better than what PAF is presently operating except F-16. So as long as a better piece of equipment is coming it is not bad and on top of it it is indiginous. So no worry of sanctions or delay in delivery.

Now coming to comparison between SU-30 and JF-17 it is not correct to compare these planes since both are designed for different threat perceptions and keeping in view different requirements. Also IAF does not operate SU-30 only it also has Mig-21, Jeguar and other planes and JF-17 is better than a lot of them. Also pilot too has a lot to play in the combat. Its the man behind the machine. If properly handled JF-17 would give a tough fight to even an SU-30. One example is an F-86 shooting down a Mig-21 in 1971 war. Hopefully one gets the picture crystal clear.

Regards,

 

[JEFF]

Please explain

Please explain

Well I don't think I need to explain if I keep both his jets in front of MKI. Morever I think I one need to compare them with ongoing upgrades of Mirages and Mig-29s of IAF.

Please provide links on the success of Akash. I don't doubt what you're saying, I think Akash has succeeded unlike the other DRDO projects, but I would still like a link.

Well, word induction by IAF based on its impressive performance in consecutive test is more then enough to translate it into success. Morever there are several threads being dedicated upon Akash missile in Indian Military watch thread. I guess you may not have any constraint any going through them.

 

[Major Dad]

It looks as if the Pakistani lawyers are following into their Indian counterparts’ footsteps. The other day, I was reading about an ill-fated Indian pilot who was stabbed to death by none other than a custodian of law. You heard me right, by a lawyer. It seems that the Indian forces are having some bad days ahead. The resignation campaign is at the peak in the Indian forces these days. Media sources reveal that the resignations by thousands of Indian armed forces officers are lying pending at various stages and it has become a morale issue. The latest blow is the request for voluntary retirement by about 65 Indian army officers who are not happy with the recommendations submitted by the Sixth Pay Commission. The resignations are down the pipeline. The point to remember is that currently the Indian armed forces are facing a severe shortage of officers. Only the army is facing a shortage of 11,200 officers. Slowly and gradually the Indian private sector is becoming more and more lucrative for the underpaid Indian armed forces personnel.
When the forces are not paid appropriately and the suicides are on the rise in the armed forces then guess what will happen.

 

[Contrarian]

You only need to read what the Lt General (malaymishra123 ), had written to know, that Pakistan has some big problems.... especially with regards to being operationally ready...!!!

Sorry to nitpick, but I dont recall saying anything about PAF being operationally ready or not!

 

[Contrarian]

IAF fighter squadrons go up to 34


New Delhi, April 17: The Indian Air Force has some reason to cheer now. The numerical strength of its fighter squadrons has now gone up to 34 from this month onwards from the earlier 32 squadrons. The IAF has inducted one new squadron comprising its elite Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft at Bareilly in UP. Another squadron comprising Jaguar aircraft has also been formed at Jamnagar in Gujarat. The Indian Air Force recently made the revelation to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence.

In 2007, alarm bells had rung within the IAF after the numerical strength of the IAF fighter squadrons came down to 32. The issue was serious enough for the then IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi to raise concerns over the issue in writing. The IAF had feared that any further reduction of the number of its fighter squadrons to below 30 would result in loss of the strategic advantage that it holds over the Pakistan Air Force.

With several fighter aircraft set to be phased out in stages, the IAF is now banking heavily on the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal that will boost its fighter squadron strength by at least six squadrons. The IAF is also planning to induct more fighter aircraft to boost its strength by a further six squadrons beyond that.

It is also banking on the agreement signed by the Indian defence ministry with Russia in 2007 for the fifth generation aircraft. The IAF’s long-term plan is that the number of its fighter squadrons can be boosted to 42 in number in phases.

As the IAF told the Parliamentary Committee recently, "As of last year our force level was down to 32 squadrons. If no action was to have been taken by us as a government, this would continue to go down to a sliding scale of 20.5 squadrons by the end of 2022.

Therefore, we have put a plan into motion".
IAF fighter squadrons go up to 34 - Howrah News Service - Latest news and headlines on Howrah and West Bengal
The IAF further added, "As of April 1, 2008, from 32 squadrons we (the IAF) have gone up to 34 squadrons."

 

[t-birds]

Ok If i were to guess, I would say you are trolling here .....maybe you outta change your flag?

1)Yes they are.... 100 (approx) F-16's, 36 J10's and a few others that are not common knowledge........ (not forgetting the 250 JF-17's which all would have BVR capability as well as some good avionics) AMRAAMS, SD-10 and MICA, Erieye,HAwkeye 2000 and a Chinese AWACS.

2)I don't know what you have "heard" But the JF-17 has not had any delays at all. There were many touted by others. But none have materialised Engines? no problem! Avionics? No problem! weapons? No problem!

3) The F-16's being supplied are the same BLKs being used by the USAF and the IsAF. So wrong again!

SO in conclusion....Either ditch your sources (cause they are making you look stupid)or stop trolling.

Change My Flag...... No need to ask you to change yours.....

100 F-16's, huh.... Yeah, that’s right keep dreaming buddy.... And looking at current events the numbers seem to be dwindling already...... So if I were you I’d starting doing my maths again.

Anyway… I was only referring to their present level of fighter jets, in Pakistan’s inventory and not Erieye, HAwkeye 2000 and a Chinese AWACS and etc.


“Ditch my sources”, I was merrily asking a question, so please don’t get your knickers in a twist…!!!!