What's new

How serious is the situation of China's economy?

vi-va

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
6,475
Reaction score
3
Country
China
Location
United States
How serious is the situation of China's economy?
China’s economy has had few bad years, but never a recession and, despite the Great Leap and the Cultural Revolution Mao kept it growing at 7.2% annually for 24 years, twice as fast as America.

But lazy journalists, who tend to look for negative news (and not just about China), have been predicting a Chinese economic disaster for so long that we think China’s economic situation is serious. Here’s a small sample of what we’ve been told over the past 25 years:

  • 1990. The Economist. China's economy has come to a halt.
  • 1996. The Economist. China's economy will face a hard landing
  • 1998. The Economist: China's economy entering a dangerous period of sluggish growth.
  • 1999. Bank of Canada: Likelihood of a hard landing for the Chinese economy.
  • 2000. Chicago Tribune: China currency move nails hard landing risk coffin.
  • 2001. Wilbanks, Smith & Thomas: A hard landing in China.
  • 2002. Westchester University: China Anxiously Seeks a Soft Economic Landing
  • 2003. New York Times: Banking crisis imperils China
  • 2004. The Economist: The great fall of China?
  • 2005. Nouriel Roubini: The Risk of a Hard Landing in China
  • 2006. International Economy: Can China Achieve a Soft Landing?
  • 2007. TIME: Is China's Economy Overheating? Can China avoid a hard landing?
  • 2008. Forbes: Hard Landing In China?
  • 2009. Fortune: China's hard landing. China must find a way to recover.
  • 2010: Nouriel Roubini: Hard landing coming in China.
  • 2011: Business Insider: A Chinese Hard Landing May Be Closer Than You Think
  • 2012: American Interest: Dismal Economic News from China: A Hard Landing
  • 2013: Zero Hedge: A Hard Landing In China
  • 2014. CNBC: A hard landing in China.
  • 2015. Forbes: Congratulations, You Got Yourself A Chinese Hard Landing.
  • 2016. The Economist: Hard landing looms for China
  • 2017. National Interest: Is China's Economy Going To Crash?
And here’s what actually happened:

upload_2020-4-15_18-6-30.png

Another reason we might think China’s situation is serious is because journalists and lazy economists confuse the acceleration rate of China's economy with its growth. They are different things.

6.5% is a ratio expressing the rate of acceleration, not growth. Knowing a ratio, like 6.5%, tells you nothing about growth unless you know what to multiply it with. Growth is a value derived by multiplying the rate of acceleration with the previous year's GDP and is expressed in RMB or $. Growth $ = Annual GDP $ x Rate of acceleration.

In 2006, China’s economy was $7.6 trillion. Growing at 12%, it added $761 billion that year. Therefore, growth = $761 billion. [7.6 x 1.12B]

In 2016, China’s economy was $21.1 trillion. Growing at 6.7%, it added $1.3 trillion that year. Therefore, growth = $1.3 trillion [1.06 = $1.27T].

So China's economy is not slowing down, it is speeding up.

What about debt? We are often told that China’s indebtedness is serious but not about China’s assets. How do China’s assets compare to its debt? In other words, how easy is it for China to pay its debts? Here are two charts that give you some idea. This one shows the debt-to-GDP ratios of the world’s leading economies, data from the Bank for International Settlements, Basle:

main-qimg-5f5c2d7beb645c8acfca27c3940055b4

Next, what are China’s assets compared to GDP? Here are the most recent figures I could find:

upload_2020-4-15_18-7-31.png

We are told that all debt (all Chinese debt?) is bad, but this is nonsense. The entire world’s economy runs on debt. U.S. Treasury Bonds are pure debt. Even currency is a form of debt.

What’s not discussed is the quality of the debt: will the debt-holder be repaid? Will she receive the promised interest payments regularly for the life of the debt? Will the final value of the debt, after adjusting for inflation, make the investment worthwhile?

Happily, Chinese government debt is of high quality, partly because the Chinese government has access to the safest, most lucrative investment opportunities and can, in a sense, guarantee them because it owns the underlying assets. When it builds a new high speed rail line, for example, it owns the land around the new railway stops and can develop the land very profitably. The cash flow from that development then goes to paying off the debt–usually in 15 years. The St Louis Federal Reserve was curious and published a draft report, Is Government Spending a Free Lunch? Evidence from China

, saying that Chinese government investments yields a Keynesian multiplier of between two and three (compared to America’s 0.9.), so there’s room for more profitable investment.


Another factor that China alarmists overlook is growth. Here’s what Nobel Economist Robert Fogel predicted in 2010 for China’s economic growth through 2040 (so far, it’s on track):

main-qimg-b69bbbc64f37de73d5ffba85d9d81d70

If you know your wages will double in the next ten years, you can afford a bigger mortgage or higher car payments because you’ll have more money to repay the debt. China’s economy has doubled every ten years for the past 40 years and, at that rate, it will be easier for China to repay its debts than for any country on earth. And wages have doubled every ten years for as long as anyone can remember:

main-qimg-d15df89361b2a1a7902436e7770d1eea

Finally, to whom is the debt owed?

China owes 90% of its debt to China and 90% of that debt is owed by one department of the Chinese Government to…another department of the Chinese Government so, if debt repayments become burdensome, China can chill.

The situation in China’s economy is seriously good.
 
.
How serious is the situation of China's economy?
China’s economy has had few bad years, but never a recession and, despite the Great Leap and the Cultural Revolution Mao kept it growing at 7.2% annually for 24 years, twice as fast as America.

But lazy journalists, who tend to look for negative news (and not just about China), have been predicting a Chinese economic disaster for so long that we think China’s economic situation is serious. Here’s a small sample of what we’ve been told over the past 25 years:

  • 1990. The Economist. China's economy has come to a halt.
  • 1996. The Economist. China's economy will face a hard landing
  • 1998. The Economist: China's economy entering a dangerous period of sluggish growth.
  • 1999. Bank of Canada: Likelihood of a hard landing for the Chinese economy.
  • 2000. Chicago Tribune: China currency move nails hard landing risk coffin.
  • 2001. Wilbanks, Smith & Thomas: A hard landing in China.
  • 2002. Westchester University: China Anxiously Seeks a Soft Economic Landing
  • 2003. New York Times: Banking crisis imperils China
  • 2004. The Economist: The great fall of China?
  • 2005. Nouriel Roubini: The Risk of a Hard Landing in China
  • 2006. International Economy: Can China Achieve a Soft Landing?
  • 2007. TIME: Is China's Economy Overheating? Can China avoid a hard landing?
  • 2008. Forbes: Hard Landing In China?
  • 2009. Fortune: China's hard landing. China must find a way to recover.
  • 2010: Nouriel Roubini: Hard landing coming in China.
  • 2011: Business Insider: A Chinese Hard Landing May Be Closer Than You Think
  • 2012: American Interest: Dismal Economic News from China: A Hard Landing
  • 2013: Zero Hedge: A Hard Landing In China
  • 2014. CNBC: A hard landing in China.
  • 2015. Forbes: Congratulations, You Got Yourself A Chinese Hard Landing.
  • 2016. The Economist: Hard landing looms for China
  • 2017. National Interest: Is China's Economy Going To Crash?
And here’s what actually happened:

View attachment 623798
Another reason we might think China’s situation is serious is because journalists and lazy economists confuse the acceleration rate of China's economy with its growth. They are different things.

6.5% is a ratio expressing the rate of acceleration, not growth. Knowing a ratio, like 6.5%, tells you nothing about growth unless you know what to multiply it with. Growth is a value derived by multiplying the rate of acceleration with the previous year's GDP and is expressed in RMB or $. Growth $ = Annual GDP $ x Rate of acceleration.

In 2006, China’s economy was $7.6 trillion. Growing at 12%, it added $761 billion that year. Therefore, growth = $761 billion. [7.6 x 1.12B]

In 2016, China’s economy was $21.1 trillion. Growing at 6.7%, it added $1.3 trillion that year. Therefore, growth = $1.3 trillion [1.06 = $1.27T].

So China's economy is not slowing down, it is speeding up.

What about debt? We are often told that China’s indebtedness is serious but not about China’s assets. How do China’s assets compare to its debt? In other words, how easy is it for China to pay its debts? Here are two charts that give you some idea. This one shows the debt-to-GDP ratios of the world’s leading economies, data from the Bank for International Settlements, Basle:

main-qimg-5f5c2d7beb645c8acfca27c3940055b4

Next, what are China’s assets compared to GDP? Here are the most recent figures I could find:

main-qimg-c1caab6dd3cc9298925b63f243bd5f16.webp

We are told that all debt (all Chinese debt?) is bad, but this is nonsense. The entire world’s economy runs on debt. U.S. Treasury Bonds are pure debt. Even currency is a form of debt.

What’s not discussed is the quality of the debt: will the debt-holder be repaid? Will she receive the promised interest payments regularly for the life of the debt? Will the final value of the debt, after adjusting for inflation, make the investment worthwhile?

Happily, Chinese government debt is of high quality, partly because the Chinese government has access to the safest, most lucrative investment opportunities and can, in a sense, guarantee them because it owns the underlying assets. When it builds a new high speed rail line, for example, it owns the land around the new railway stops and can develop the land very profitably. The cash flow from that development then goes to paying off the debt–usually in 15 years. The St Louis Federal Reserve was curious and published a draft report, Is Government Spending a Free Lunch? Evidence from China

, saying that Chinese government investments yields a Keynesian multiplier of between two and three (compared to America’s 0.9.), so there’s room for more profitable investment.


Another factor that China alarmists overlook is growth. Here’s what Nobel Economist Robert Fogel predicted in 2010 for China’s economic growth through 2040 (so far, it’s on track):

main-qimg-b69bbbc64f37de73d5ffba85d9d81d70

If you know your wages will double in the next ten years, you can afford a bigger mortgage or higher car payments because you’ll have more money to repay the debt. China’s economy has doubled every ten years for the past 40 years and, at that rate, it will be easier for China to repay its debts than for any country on earth. And wages have doubled every ten years for as long as anyone can remember:

main-qimg-d15df89361b2a1a7902436e7770d1eea

Finally, to whom is the debt owed?

China owes 90% of its debt to China and 90% of that debt is owed by one department of the Chinese Government to…another department of the Chinese Government so, if debt repayments become burdensome, China can chill.

The situation in China’s economy is seriously good.

Everything is ok, China will rule the world so don't worry about it.
 
. . .
It's ok. China is perfect, China is a divine place.
David you need to calm down, China has alot of weaknesses and flaws, that's why we had always remained open to world trade and exchange, albeit some form of filter of propaganda news, we do take constructive criticism openly. I am talking about post Deng China btw. Its been 40 years, you have to stop looking at China from a biased lens. For one, stop calling us Communists, we are not. We have billionaires and income is not equal, there is a robust private sector. We are a Socialist, capitalistic authoratarian government but not Communist. You can call us Facist.
 
.
David you need to calm down, China has alot of weaknesses and flaws, that's why we had always remained open to world trade and exchange, albeit some form of filter of propaganda news, we do take constructive criticism openly. I am talking about post Deng China btw. Its been 40 years, you have to stop looking at China from a biased lens. For one, stop calling us Communists, we are not. We have billionaires and income is not equal, there is a robust private sector. We are a Socialist, capitalistic authoratarian government but not Communist. You can call us Facist.

No China is perfect, the CCP is perfect.
 
.
Everything is ok, China will rule the world so don't worry about it.

Lol. I think china needs alot more than economy to rule the world. China lacks social influence, gdp capital very low, still have little international responsibility, their system is never going to be a role model to other countries, their economy relies on export and not domestic consumption which will keep their economy dependent on foriegn markets......

I can go on and on but you got my point
 
.
Those China will collapse articles are written for China haters to circle jerk to. Just let the haters have their fun and ignore.
 
.
it has been rough, not gonna lie. restaurant are all open but most of them are empty.

people are still cautious
 
. . .
People dont want bats anymore?
Why? Fancy raping the bats too?

David you need to calm down, China has alot of weaknesses and flaws, that's why we had always remained open to world trade and exchange, albeit some form of filter of propaganda news, we do take constructive criticism openly. I am talking about post Deng China btw. Its been 40 years, you have to stop looking at China from a biased lens. For one, stop calling us Communists, we are not. We have billionaires and income is not equal, there is a robust private sector. We are a Socialist, capitalistic authoratarian government but not Communist. You can call us Facist.

China is either collapsing or perfect. LOL Han you're talking to a 60 year old fart who has the IQ of a 12 year old. He maybe a closet Trump worshiper but he ain't got no brain(yank's accent :azn:) to argue here. Move on buddy.
 
.
Why? Fancy raping the bats too?



China is either collapsing or perfect. LOL Han you're talking to a 60 year old fart who has the IQ of a 12 year old. He maybe a closet Trump worshiper but he ain't got no brain(yank's accent :azn:) to argue here. Move on buddy.
Well he has his right to think that way. We just do what we had been doing for the past 30 years work hard and keep going.
 
. . .

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom