Hindus, Muslims should fight poverty, not each other: PM Narendra Modi

[Joe Shearer]

This shit head terrorist turned PM instead of condemning dadri lynching is equaling both the killers and aggrieved by such statements . Muslims never starts any fight and are kept in defensive mode in India by these illiterate hindu masses .

Indian disintegration is not far if such polarizing policies of RSS and its arm BJP continues if they want india for Hindus only they will have to carve a big portion out for 20 crore plus muslims and I am sure east punjab , calcutta and even delhi will have to be given freedom from modi and his likes as all these places have muslims and sikh combine domination.

Many of us Indians might agree with you, openly as well as behind closed doors, but to be perfectly honest, hearing the same things from a Pakistani gives me an uncomfortable feeling. You will find the right wing religious jumping on to your statement and making an international conspiracy out of it. It doesn't help, no matter how candid your views and transparent your attitude, it will be a setback. To you and to us, both. Think about it.

I do not hold Gujarat against Modi at all.

Never did.

I will stop short of saying they (the Muslims) asked for it.

And you know this from our private conversations.

Am a brutally fair person. Politically incorrect a label worn proudly on my sleeves.

I can afford to be seeing as I do not count in an India riven by identity politics.

As a people we are already near dead. Who can kill us further?

Cheers, Doc

I respect your views, Doc, as always, and always will. Let it pass.

 

[vsdoc]

Many of us Indians might agree with you, openly as well as behind closed doors, but to be perfectly honest, hearing the same things from a Pakistani gives me an uncomfortable feeling. You will find the right wing religious jumping on to your statement and making an international conspiracy out of it. It doesn't help, no matter how candid your views and transparent your attitude, it will be a setback. To you and to us, both. Think about it.

Setback?

The Pakistanis and the Indian loonies are on the same side here.

Both enjoying it greatly.

Green and saffron pom poms waving wildly.

Though one would miss the toned legs in impossibly short skirts doing the high kicks.

One would have to do with burqad ninjas and impossibly butt ugly sadhvis instead.

The price we pay.

 

[Spectre]

This needs a serious answer, but I am sceptical about any positive role to be played by @SarthakGanguly . Even the veneer of responsibility that he displayed has been eroded. What will he and I do on the same thread?

His views are ascendant hence Sarthak is a part of conversation other wise it would be just a monologue anyway for a more reasoned input @vsdoc it would be great if you could share your view on the below

@Joe Shearer @scorpionx @SarthakGanguly @vsdoc Do you think the lack of tolerance and hardening of anti Islamic stand we see among so many of Hindus today is irreversible and something which was inevitable?

Consider our hinterlands - The hate is spreading and polarization is happening at a frightening speed through interpersonal internet mediums like Whatsapp - the kind of videos and posts which are proliferating would put Goebbels's propaganda to shame. These videos are masterfully and prodigiously made suggesting a professional set up with a long term agenda. In response same strategy is being followed by Muslim groups resulting in clear cut formation of camps some of them armed.

Present Govt may have just acted like a quickening agent but the question remains is India too heterogeneous a country to exist in it's current shape?

The counter point is India has resilience to bounce back as we did in case of Sikh movements - what seemed at one point of time a serious threat to Indian unity has mostly been eradicated but it can be argued that differences between Hindus and Muslims have a much stronger foundation than Hindu - Sikh one which was instigated by a singular figure.

Regards

 

[EagleEyes]

@Joe Shearer hand out negative ratings for only posts violating the rules. Thanks!

 

[vsdave2302]

@Joe Shearer hand out negative ratings for only posts violating the rules. Thanks!

Thank you sir.

 

[Sky lord]

@Joe Shearer Mr. shearer, I am not part of this discussion and was only casually browsing through, but as an outsider you are definitely rating based on whether an opinion agrees with your personal point of view and once done you are cheeky enough to call the other side totalitarian! I know you don't do this all the time. Perhaps you are a little agitated this time? Anyway no matter, not my bone. Peace out.

 

[vsdoc]

@vsdoc it would be great if you could share your view on the below

(1) I believe that the next elections are going to see a fragmentation of the BJP votebank from last year's landslide.

(2) I believe in the Hindutva which gave refuge to my people 1300 years ago.

(3) I believe some Hindus are itching for a fight.

(4) I believe they are going to get it.

(5) I believe in India. And I believe these Hindus will get what's coming to them. Just as some Pakistan-loving Muslims have.

Finally

(6) I believe we are going to disappoint Pakistan by never descending to where they are currently.

Cheers, Doc

 

[SamantK]

Please read the complete statement from Mrs. Sehgal. She has quite explicitly spoken about it. It was PUCL where she was vice-president that first came with full reports on atrocities in 84 and she received her academy award two years later. Its a common tendency to get carried away easily with media propaganda which you condemned but yet conviniently became a prey of it.

So what if she was a vice president of the committee? Why did she not reject the award? Im fine either way but the when she kept silent then and did not renounce her award then and after so many incidents? what moral stand she has to reject it now just because 'This time it's different'
? What justifies this long period of silence?

Propaganda can serve it's purpose and especially when intellectuals and journalists themselves are not aver to spreading it. And yeah, it somehow always feels that media lives on a different paltform which mostly is different from the reality.

 

[noksss]

Spare me of this usual nonsense please. An innocent man has been killed and his young son is fighting death for a crime they did not commit by fanatics who had no respect for law. Unlike you I am no sympathizer of religious fanatics and murderers, and hope PM is also not.

Tell me the strong statement said by manmohan singh for Muzzafarnagar riots which is far more worse than this . Don't tell me that the members are not from his party bcoz the congress are the champions of secularism hence a strong statement from the then PM was required . I see no complaints from anyone about manmohan singh for not giving strong statement

 

[vsdoc]

Not possible in Indian politics brother. No body is saint. IDEALLY it should happen. But in this country its not an exception but a rule. Same with Congress and its 10 years at power who were even worse in governing. They perhaps did corruptions amounting to 1/5th our then 1.7 trillion GDP in 10 years

At best, I hope Modi and the respecteable cabinet members can do that (Jaitley, Swaraj, Gadkari...)

What is not possible in Indian politics?

Is Rule of Law too much to ask for and expect by right in a nation that wants to be a superpower one day?

And why are you bringing up the Congress as a tu quoue argument? They were so bad so the BJP can be at least this bad.

Did we give the BJP a landslide because we wanted to be only a bit better than the sucky Congress was?

Again I repeat. In an idealistic world where we actually cherish the concepts of state secularism, multicultural diversity and an utopian culture which treats people based on values and issues and not on castes and religions, this would be in my hands.

I hate to say this, buit go out from Mumbai/ Kolkata/ Delhi into the interior hinterlands.... castes, religion and petty issues like sub-categories decides the fortunes in day to day life. Politicians are only an extension of our society and our mindset at large. Afterall, it is us who vote for them, isn't it?

All the nation wants and expects is for the rule of law and fairness.

If we suck, then we should not be allowed to suck in peace. To suck some more.

We should be given a danda on our pichwara and made to feel the full weight of the hand of law.

Maybe it that is done often enough, in as fair a manner as possible, as quickly as possible, we will learn that it does not really pay to suck as we are used to sucking. And learn to suck less.

Not more.

This is not utopia. This is the country needing to pull itself up to a bare minimal level of sucking.

And the answer to that is not that if you suck, I'll show you good by sucking even more.

Pardon the overdose of sucking in my post.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Tridibans]

What is not possible in Indian politics?

Is Rule of Law too much to ask for and expect by right in a nation that wants to be a superpower one day?

And why are you bringing up the Congress as a tu quoue argument? They were so bad so the BJP can be at least this bad.

Did we give the BJP a landslide because we wanted to be only a bit better than the sucky Congress was?



All the nation wants and expects is for the rule of law and fairness.

If we suck, then we should not be allowed to suck in peace. To suck some more.

We should be given a danda on our pichwara and made to feel the full weight of the hand of law.

Maybe it that is done often enough, in as fair a manner as possible, as quickly as possible, we will learn that it does not really pay to suck as we are used to sucking. And learn to suck less.

Not more.

This is not utopia. This is the country needing to pull itself up to a bare minimal level of sucking.

And the answer to that is not that if you suck, I'll show you good by sucking even more.

Pardon the overdose of sucking in my post.

Cheers, Doc

You misunderstood my first part. Read my earlier two posts. It was in that context that I replied to Joeshearer .

I am with you. Infact, the same point you made is what I said, in that earlier post. And no, that post did not have anything to do with Congress or BJP

Let me try again.

1) Laws are there for everyone. From Owaisi to Yakub memon to the dadri mob. That was the first pretext that I made and said BJP higher echelons shoul make some ground rules or you can say... lakshmanrekha.... It has nothing to do with congress being good or bad.

2) No matter what, we have the chance to disagree, protest or even express our concerns openly. But killing a person (or animal) is not even a question.

3) Its hunky dory living in our ac rooms and posting on PDF. But in rural villages and small towns, castes/ religion still plays a big big part. I am, in no way justifying it. If anything, being a BJP supporter, I should be the last one supporting caste based politics. (aka Mulayam or Lalu). Regarding religious hatred, not every voter of BJP is an extremist Hindutva activist. If that is the case, 31% of India's 1.2 billion people would have been doing mob justice. I equally hate fringe groups who do communal politics.

But you see, there is a fine line between Hindutva and Hindutva extremism. I am a Hindu. I am supposed to be nationalistic and Hindutvawadi like any muslim is going to be practicing Islamist. Don't you guys the first one to say Muslims are not equal to Muslim fanatics like ISIS?

So my question is, if a Christian can be proud of his/her religion/ Jesus and the Pope, a muslim is supposed to believe "there is no god but allah", why being a Hindu I should not believe in Hindutva ? Why always post as if Hindutva is bad?

Hindutva IS NOT EQUAL TO VHP or Bajrang Dal or any mob justice. Does 80% of India's population (Hindus) are Ram Sena or Bajrang dal or were involved in Dadri? Why the contrasting definition for Islam and other hardcore islamic groups then?

 

[vsdoc]

You misunderstood my first part. Read my earlier two posts. It was in that context that I replied to Joeshearer .

I am with you. Infact, the same point you made is what I said, in that earlier post. And no, that post did not have anything to do with Congress or BJP

Let me try again.

1) Laws are there for everyone. From Owaisi to Yakub memon to the dadri mob. That was the first pretext that I made and said BJP higher echelons shoul make some ground rules or you can say... lakshmanrekha.... It has nothing to do with congress being good or bad.

2) No matter what, we have the chance to disagree, protest or even express our concerns openly. But killing a person (or animal) is not even a question.

3) Its hunky dory living in our ac rooms and posting on PDF. But in rural villages and small towns, castes/ religion still plays a big big part. I am, in no way justifying it. If anything, being a BJP supporter, I should be the last one supporting caste based politics. (aka Mulayam or Lalu). Regarding religious hatred, not every voter of BJP is an extremist Hindutva activist. If that is the case, 31% of India's 1.2 billion people would have been doing mob justice. I equally hate fringe groups who do communal politics.

But you see, there is a fine line between Hindutva and Hindutva extremism. I am a Hindu. I am supposed to be nationalistic and Hindutvawadi like any muslim is going to be practicing Islamist. Don't you guys the first one to say Muslims are not equal to Muslim fanatics like ISIS?

So my question is, if a Christian can be proud of his/her religion/ Jesus and the Pope, a muslim is supposed to believe "there is no god but allah", why being a Hindu I should not believe in Hindutva ? Why always post as if Hindutva is bad?

Hindutva IS NOT EQUAL TO VHP or Bajrang Dal or any mob justice. Does 80% of India's population (Hindus) are Ram Sena or Bajrang dal or were involved in Dadri? Why the contrasting definition for Islam and other hardcore islamic groups then?

I'm not a Hindu.

I am a Hindutvawadi. And a nationalist. With mild to moderate (bordering on serious) fascist traits.

We are on the same page.

And no, I am not one of those who says all Muslims are Islamist. Never have.

I would like to believe that as a sister (though junior) Aryan faith, Hinduism is strong enough and secure enough not to need protecting from itself.

Hope that explains.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Tridibans]

I'm not a Hindu.

I am a Hindutvawadi. And a nationalist. With mild to moderate (bordering on serious) fascist traits.

We are on the same page.

And no, I am not one of those who says all Muslims are Islamist. Never have.

I would like to believe that as a sister (though junior) Aryan faith, Hinduism is strong enough and secure enough not to need protecting from itself.

Hope that explains.

Cheers, Doc

Well I remember reading your posts long back when I was a new member on PDF.

I suppose you were on an extended absence from the forums for a while.

Always nice to read your posts. Same as those of @SpArK @MilSpec @Bang Galore @sancho

Infact, I learned so much from these guys ever since I started venturing into this side of the internet 4-5 years back

 

[vsdoc]

Well I remember reading your posts long back when I was a new member on PDF.

I suppose you were on an extended absence from the forums for a while.

Always nice to read your posts. Same as those of @SpArK @MilSpec @Bang Galore @sancho

Infact, I learned so much from these guys ever since I started venturing into this side of the internet 4-5 years back

Yeah I was on an "extended absence."

Anyways, its a period of churn for India.

Islamists like rabid Hindus suffer what I call LNS (little nunni syndrome).

They like to beat up on people when in numbers. When the environment favors it.

If they were so brave and strong, they would have done the same when the Congress was around.

THAT is the perception I want and EXPECT Modi to disabuse the little nunnis of.

If he does not, then he would sadly be remembered by history as a little nunni with a big topi. Who could have become a pappu, but did not.

Cheers, Doc

 

[utraash]

This acts is blot on our values which we talk boastfully.....
Ironically none questions the chief minister for his failure on law n order n still gun(sickularist) are trained at PM however modi should stop condemning these acts passively ..... A open n sharp reaction from PM could serve the purpose to deter the lunatics .....