What's new

Here is why CPEC never reached its full potential

yes

only of pdf , PTI morons will tell you :-

1. land route is cheaper vs sea

2. LNG is cheaper than NG

So what is the purpose of Gwandar Port that they build for Pakistan? What is a seaport for? For connecting two countries via land route?

I thought the real purpose of CPEC is not only connecting Pakistan and China via the land route. It far from that. They (China) want to make Pakistan as the gateway to the middle east and Africa, bypassing Malaca Strait. That is actually a huge opportunity for Pakistan, if they can use this opportunity well. Because if Pakistan has become an important transit port between Africa, Middle East and China, then it can become an important trade hub in the region. Yet, Pakistan think that they have been cheated by China?

For China, this project is more important than a mere business opportunity. They consider this CPEC as the door to avoid death. But for Pakistan, if they can play this right, they can elevate their country as an important trade hub that connect Central Asia, China to Africa.

So who said land route is cheaper than Sea? CPEC Is about sea route and land route all together.
 
Last edited:
.
Of course, the Chinese had done their homework, they had found a bunch of idiots who were willing to give sovereign guarantees for the supplier credits of Chinese companies making useless loss making infrastructure in the power sector and road network.


Ooo so its mean establishment, General Raheel sharif and national security advisor all of idiot who give guarantee for secure chinses development projects in Gawadar and road network ? only youthia knows whats the best ??
 
.
Of course, the Chinese had done their homework, they had found a bunch of idiots who were willing to give sovereign guarantees for the supplier credits of Chinese companies making useless loss making infrastructure in the power sector and road network.


Ooo so its mean establishment, General Raheel sharif and national security advisor all of idiot who give guarantee for secure chinses development projects in Gawadar and road network ? only youthia knows whats the best ??
Nah your Mafroor leader knows best. CPEC saved Pakistan from evil IMF. We are now all living in the land of milk and honey thanks to your Mian Mafroor's greatness
@ziaulislam @Patriot forever
 
.
There are many problems with his arguments. But the first and most glaring one is in his first sentence, and the title of this thread. "Never reached its full potential" assumes that the project is dead. That is far from true. I would be willing to accept that the project "hasn't reached its full potential yet". That may be true. But CPEC has benefitted the country and will continue to benefit the country immensely for a long time to come.

He is evaluating this project from a very narrow logistics perspective. While I do not agree with even that view, the benefits of CPEC are far greater that trade logistics.
 
.
What 10-15 years? It has already started and operating. Also here & here .

And almost forgot this Steel Mill which would consume 45 MW of electricity all by itself.

That's what CPEC is about. Its not about transit trade of raw material from Gwader to China but rather it is about Industry Relocation. I don't know why this is so hard for western media to grasp
.

Why do China private companies will relocate their business in Pakistan with the present of long road and rail track between China and Pakistan where most of the CPEC road and train will pass less populated areas in both nations with really very long route to reach masses in each country ?

They have already got Vietnam already who sit near the border of South China ( where main industry and business located and also many Chinese are residing ). This is why Vietnam gets so many China investment despite many Vietnamese hates Chinese.

China investment in Indonesia though is more related to nickel since we ban exporting our nickel so they are forced to build refinery here and also stainless steel company is forced to build the factory in Indonesia or they cannot get raw material to sustain and grow their business

Private companies doesnt care whether Pakistan is China iron brother or not, that is not how business people think, unless if Pakistan have similar competitive advantage with Vietnam.
 
.
I understand that most of the Pakistani brethren would assume by default that any Indian saying anything negative would be out of jealousy. Well you reserve that right to your view point. I see some positives for Pakistan, but a lot more negatives in the long run. Talking just economics here, a lot is murky in terms of benefits and longer term welfare gain for the people of Pakistan. Short term monetary details, I dont care about loans, debt or interest rates right now. But show me the long term gain for the common people.

  1. Pakistan’s Manufacturing sector: The first market that really opens up for Chinese goods is the biggest in that region aka Pakistan. Not Iran, not CIS. This development gives Chinese goods swifter and cheaper access than before. So how will Pakistan protect its local industry from dumping by China? They can dump products at dirt cheap prices halfway around the world, so dont tell me they cant. Same goes for exported goods. You would be in a dream if you think Pakistani manufactured goods can compete with Chinese ones exported out of that port. How many markets open up for Pakistani goods in reality? Remember that the ability of China to finance massive subsidies is far greater than the GDP of most countries.
  2. High paying jobs: Almost all the literature I read, most of the development contracts were with Chinese companies as well as the better paying jobs. Locals are being employed only in construction labor and other low paying jobs. This, does nothing to your long term welfare. This also includes sourcing. Everything from steel to equiment is being brought from China. Atleast if you had a better local sourcing regulation, Pakistan Steel Mills could have been revived at the very least.
  3. Power: A lot has been spoken about the huge thermal power plants being set up. In the short term, they will plug the peak deficit leading to lower load shedding. But if Chinese manufacturing causes your industries to close down (say) who consumes that much extra power? Generation capacity follows demand. Dont give a blind trust key to China just because they let you use their veto. Protect your manufacturing.
  4. Manufacturing shift: Over the longer term, say 10-15 years if CPEC is hale and running, Pakistan will become a dumping ground for Chinese manufacturing. Not cutting edge high tech stuff, low end highly polluting ones that the government of China would want to offshore given the current trends in China. They are moving up the value chain, incomes are continuously rising, plus there is an emphasis and mass consensus on environment there. Pakistan sits ideal in terms of access to both China and rest of the world then, plus cheap labor.
In the short term, it appears this would benefit the people of Pakistan. Its up to Pakistani people to ensure that they aren’t curing just the short term headache of a tumor with a short term analgesic, meaning just short term benefit, but are killing the real problem i.e. the tumor as well. I am not being critical here, I am not sure how much of a safety net pakistan is building for itself.

A good overview, however, there is a need to clarify some aspects. I will try to put some ideas in reply to each of your points:
1. Pakistan’s Manufacturing sector: Yes, CPEC will further open the manufacturing sector of Pakistan to China. But the question is, isn't Pakistan open already? Chinese products have already outperformed many Pakistani products, but, still, Pakistan is a very small market, given our limited purchasing power. Therefore, China won't capture much of the low Pakistani demand market. Therefore, thinking China's purpose is to capture such a small country is not much appealing. Pakistanis are smart enough to invest in products that won't compete with Chinese goods, for example, sports, leather, and items where Pakistan has a competitive edge. Various studies are available which points to the various products that won't face Chinese competition.

2. High-Paying Jobs: As for high-paying jobs, Chinese workers on average cost at least four times higher than their Pakistani counterparts. It is true that in CPEC, most of the high-paying jobs are reserved for the Chinese, however, the main reason is the lack of expertise (by Pakistanis) as well as a difficulty by Chinese officials in communicating with Pakistanis workers. Moreover, bringing Chinese workers to Pakistan would cost more than four times to the Chinese firms. Therefore, over time there will be more Pakistani workers in such firms.

3. Power: I agree with the notion that there is an oversupply of power. However, your argument is based on the assumption that Chinese firms would overwhelm Pakistani firms. Till now, we are hearing Chinese firms such as Huwei, Xiomi and such telecom giants are investing, which Pakistani firms they are intending to overthrow? This also holds true for Chinese car manufacturers where there is no Pakistani firm to compete with them.

4. Manufacturing shift: No country in the world shares cutting-edge technology with any other country. Why would the Chinese do that? It is also true that they will at maximum share their low-end manufacturing with Pakistan. What is wrong with it? Most of the presently developed countries were once the hub of assembling units, which over time transformed into high-tech manufacturing giants. So no harm in doing that.

CPEC is not a shortcut for development. However, it does provide the opportunity for Pakistan to make its headway towards development.
 
Last edited:
.
Not PTI, plmn morons.

We have been saying this for a long time, land route only by China's western Pakistan bordering areas makes sense.

We have been shouting for ages that IPP 'take or pay' imported fuel power plants will devastate us.

Fun fact.

( The capacity payments has surpassed the generation cost of all electricity)
BS
IK caused all these mistakes
Namely
1- signing expensive Take or pay deals
2- building inroad coal projects with high transport cost to transport coal
3- LNG based plants and shelfing bhasha dasu munda project or delaying them
4- signing 30 years BOT based 20%ROR o
Nah your Mafroor leader knows best. CPEC saved Pakistan from evil IMF. We are now all living in the land of milk and honey thanks to your Mian Mafroor's greatness
@ziaulislam @Patriot forever
Problem isnt with CPEC but corruption and manipulation and lack of any discussion by PMLN..they just went in for it without a second thought

PTI calculated cautious approach with focus on free zones was the way to go..

But i love lahore metro..a specticular project of around 500b rupees same cost as the shelved bhasha dam..but that metro was more important
 
.
Why do China private companies will relocate their business in Pakistan with the present of long road and rail track between China and Pakistan where most of the CPEC road and train will pass less populated areas in both nations with really very long route to reach masses in each country ?

1. Chinese government can incentivize its private companies to invest where Chinese government believes would serve its strategic advantage . Easy financing terms come to mind. Gwadar Tax Free Zone is another reason which comes in to mind. When I first learned about this free zone, I was amazed that Pakistani could have conceived such a project.

2. Investing in Vietnam does not have same strategic advantage since its trade route can still be blocked at strait of Malacca. Exporting out of Gwadar bypasses the choke point of strait of Malacca. Plus exporting out of Gwadar to middle east, Europe or Africa is still shorter/cheaper than shipping out of Vietnam.

3. Some of manufacturing is going to move out of China eventually as it did out of US, Europe & Japan. Chinese government might as well decide to control the strategically favorable location for its manufacturing to move to. For example manufacturing moving out of China to Vietnam vs Pakistan vs India.

4. Manufacturing in Pakistan can give cheap & shortest access to Central Asia, Africa & Middle East. Exporting out of Gwadar takes less time and give China an edge over goods being exported out of India, Japan, Vietnam & even Bangladesh. On the last page of this thread I posted a link to Chinese textiles manufacturer,
Challenge Apparel which has set up manufacturing in Punjab solely to export out. It would have access to local cotton that Bangladeshi firms do not and it would have shorter/cheaper route while shipping out of Gwadar. This textile company has just trumped any BD textile manufacturing advantage right there.

5. As many others noted earlier in thread, there is no point in transporting finished goods all the way from Eastern China through land route to Gwadar, for now. There is no plan in CPEC's road-map to build any major highway or railway track connecting eastern China to Gwadar, for now. Most of trade between China & Pakistan is still happening via sea.

There may be other reasons but that's all I can think of right now.
 
Last edited:
.
.
Yes it was - your pottii do poti every where and made naya pakistan. xD
Then kindly explain how come Pakistan went bankrupt in 2018 if your Mian Mafroor left Pakistan in such a good state?
983E38C3-164C-4A35-8CE2-13E51760BE75.png
3B186911-DFD8-4C35-9D7F-09492604CB83.jpeg
 
.
1. Chinese government can incentivize its private companies to invest where Chinese government believes would serve its strategic advantage . Easy financing terms come to mind. Gwadar Tax Free Zone is another reason which comes in to mind. When I first learned about this free zone, I was amazed that Pakistani could have conceived such a project.

2. Investing in Vietnam does not have same strategic advantage since its trade route can still be blocked at strait of Malacca. Exporting out of Gwadar bypasses the choke point of strait of Malacca. Plus exporting out of Gwadar to middle east, Europe or Africa is still shorter/cheaper than shipping out of Vietnam.

3. Some of manufacturing is going to move out of China eventually as it did out of US, Europe & Japan. Chinese government might as well decide to control the strategically favorable location for its manufacturing to move to. For example manufacturing moving out to Vietnam vs Pakistan vs India.

4. Manufacturing in Pakistan can give cheap & shortest access to Central Asia, Africa & Middle East. Exporting out of Gwadar takes less time and give China an edge over goods being exported out of India, Japan, Vietnam & even Bangladesh. On the last page of this thread I posted a link to Chinese textiles manufacturer,
Challenge Apparel which has set up manufacturing in Punjab solely to export out. It would have access to local cotton that Bangladeshi firms do not and it would have shorter/cheaper route while shipping out of Gwadar. This textile company has just trumped any BD textile manufacturing advantage right there.

5. As many others noted earlier in thread, there is no point in transporting finished goods all the way from Eastern China through land route to Gwadar, for now. There is no plan in CPEC's road-map to build any major highway or railway track connecting eastern China to Gwadar, for now. Most of trade between China & Pakistan is still happening via sea.

There may be other reasons but that's all I can think of right now.

As Muslim what I state is a clear concern and I dont want Pakistan get dumped with many Chinese goods in the future. There is reason of why Indonesia doesnt want to be connected with Peninsula Malaysia as this will make ASEAN connection get more deep on logistic. We dont want to export raw material coming from Sumatra island to supply Malaysia/Singapore/Thailand/Vietnam industries while they are the ones who do the processing into a finished goods/products.

1. Talking about Malacca Strait, it is not a death end for China if US block Malacca Strait. US can block Malacca straits because they get support from Singapore in term of docking and supply for their warships

China can maintain good relationship with Indonesia which is so far neutral and use Indonesian sea route to pass their cargo ships, there are many sea routes within our Archipelago sea. They also can use Myanmar for that purpose through their land.

1636419781196.png



Sea cargo is the cheapest one. @Communism has shown China trade with Russia even useS sea cargo than train or road despite China and Russia has vast land border

In Sea cargo there is also term that is called a hub and a feeder, I think you understand what it is. It makes sea cargo even cheaper. There is of course the need for speedy time, this is why some use cargo planes.

Just take a look on very long CPEC route and those route passes region that so few people live there


1636421155092.png
 
Last edited:
.
As Muslim what I state is a clear concern and I dont want Pakistan get dumped with many Chinese goods in the future.

......... snip..........

1. Talking about Malacca Strait, it is not a death end for China if US block Malacca Strait. US can block Malacca straits because they get support from Singapore in term of docking and supply for their warships

Well you probably have underestimated how bad is the economic/trade situation is in Pakistan after past 35 years of corrupt governments. In the end of 2018, Pakistani imports from China stood at $15 billion against exports of less than $1 billion to China and its hard to imagine that it can get any worse. We are already being flooded by Chinese goods, just like Europe & USA are. If Pakistan is a net importer of goods, then what difference does it make to us if we are importing from Iran, Middle East, Africa, Europe, China or Japan?

Only way out for Pakistan is to set up local manufacturing of goods and fastest way to achieve that is through FDI (foreign direct investment). And only country willing to set up industry in Pakistan via FDI is China and we do understand they are not doing it out of pure goodness of their heart. BTW Saudi Arabia promised to set up a single oil refinery about 3 years ago but it appears to be not-happening.

And risk to Chinese trade at Strait of Malacca doesn't only come from USA. Those Indian aircraft carriers & nuclear submarines are not just for Pakistan. Those assets are acquired by India to block the Strait. And then there is AUKUS now with Australian nuclear submarines. Once US, India, Australia & Japan decide to block the Strait, Indonesia would find it very difficult to go against the collective will of these countries and risk providing alternate shipping route to China (if at all possible in the first place).
 
Last edited:
.
Except for the sole exception of right now, with too many goods to ship by sea and not enough ships/containers/port capacity, it is always cheaper to ship things by ship instead of train.

This is why China exports most goods to Russia by sea instead of by rail.
No my brother rail is much cheaper then sea ... Russia and china might still be dealing via sea because china whole manufacturing hub is at the eastern side whereas russia is on west.

Freight trains are much quicker and faster than sea.

Another reason of preferring sea over train is china of multiple sea port but very few trains towards west ... The infrastructure is build for the sea trade and not for rail road trade
 
.
No my brother rail is much cheaper then sea ... Russia and china might still be dealing via sea because china whole manufacturing hub is at the eastern side whereas russia is on west.

Freight trains are much quicker and faster than sea.

Another reason of preferring sea over train is china of multiple sea port but very few trains towards west ... The infrastructure is build for the sea trade and not for rail road trade
Russia is literally the furthest country in the world from China by sea.

Look at a map, a container shipped by sea has to go through the straits of malacca, the suez canal, the bosphorous strait, to Russia, or straits of malacca, the suez canal, the strait of gibralter, the north sea, and then to roughly St. Petersburg.

The fact that it's still usually cheaper to transport things to European Russia by Sea instead of by train is what makes my point so obvious.

China and Russia has a shitload of rail connections since soviet times.
 
.
No my brother rail is much cheaper then sea ... Russia and china might still be dealing via sea because china whole manufacturing hub is at the eastern side whereas russia is on west.

Freight trains are much quicker and faster than sea.

Another reason of preferring sea over train is china of multiple sea port but very few trains towards west ... The infrastructure is build for the sea trade and not for rail road trade

We face the same problem, we are on the farthest western side.

Anyways had this been the goal priority would have been ML1 not motorways. Even the ML1 the only rail project envisioned in CPEC does not extend to Gawadar.

Is there any plan or project ongoing to connect Gawadar by Rail?

The chance of us taking full advantage of CPEC is by transferring of manufacturing ( low end atleast) that is economic zones, there in lies our only hope.

Our guage caliber is different than China. We need a full overhaul and expansion.
( Motorways is the least economically sustainable mode of transport for goods for longer distances than rail and shipping).

In our mind CPEC was used as a credit card for projects that are not economically viable and too for political reasons.

We could have planned it a lot better. The most import sustainable energy. Even if by arguments 'Thar coal' was more expensive (which is not true as it relates to economy of scale) we would have saved billions in forex and the amount paid would have ended up in our economy contributing to our GDP and creating employment not ending up in Qatar (RLNG) and on coal imports.

This is where we messed up. ( 90% of CPEC is mostly vanity projects and IPP's). Even motorways and gawadar port is a small fraction of it.

Without competitive energy rates only industries that are heavily reliant on cheap labour like textile have a chance to offset the cost, other limited industrial investment will be geared towards our own market. ( Which in turn most of the profits will be going to Chinese shareholders of these companies).

What China envisioned and expected from us through CPEC was making sensible decisions and making progress. We used it for political reasons, kickbacks and corruption. This was a brotherly gift to develop ourselves and to emerge as a strong country an ally along Chinese borders ( That's what they wanted all along).

At least from a military and strategic perspective it worked. We ourselves messed up the economic side ( still trying to salvage what we can and these industrial parks are a part of it to atleast generate some revenue (dollars) to pay for the IPP's).
 
Last edited:
.
Back
Top Bottom