Hate Speech in a Secular State

[bronxbull]

He afforded it alright. Go ahead and deal with him

cant u see that we are already?

 

[Sedqal]

cant u see that we are already?

He will attract more following when he comes out.

 

[bronxbull]

Your suspicions very valid krait... I am sticking my bum in two communities affairs. It is actually the other way around. I am trying to adopt Pashtun identity but initially of Lucknowi descent with relatives spread out in other regions... you will not understand as the internal ethnic situation in Pakistan is largely beyond you very much as I would know very little about Madras... not your fault actually very little coverage. But knowing about the movement and frequenting the Azad Deccan office in Canada I know a bit of the background. As far as Deccan and Lucknowi politics are concerned I have a link to it because of our background. Both have part of my family.

My family indeed does have its ancestral home in India. Its 2/5 of our family in Pakistan and 3/5 in India. Perhaps its 1/2 for both but I don't know because of the visa issue and loss of contact with the family in India particularly those not in Lucknow since the closest relatives remain there. This is not actually uncommon.

I have for a very long time very strongly identified with many muslims and supported them though of course consider myself Pakistani. But they have been moving away from us for a while now and been integrating. Most are integrated in India. Later on partly because of that I wondered if it was really healthy to be concerned about them so much and later by traversing on a path of adopting another culture a lot of my initial contact with them largely disappeared. The real problem as far as our family is concerned is in Hyderabad from where Owaisi gave this speech. There were killings there right after Gujarat or an after affect which have heavily been ignored and under-reported. Its a very religiously polarized town and some relatives were killed there.

Think of this. Ancestral land belonging to a lot of Muslims was appropriated in 1948 and the years after it, still not returned. There is a higher proportion of Muslims in the Hyderabad jail than their population. If you check that speech you will see the housing problem is massive. It was part of the reason one family moved from Hyderabad even as late as 2004.

As far as Owaisi is concerned I do not want to prejudice you against him as that will only cause a crisis for relatives. Some have even caught a comment from this site very long ago in the past and told me so. You identifying so closely with us and saying you are a Pakistani will mean RSS mobs may attack us but they can't touch Pakistan. He has never stated anti-Indian feelings. Even in this speech he means Hindustan as in Hindutvadi groups.

But recently some pressure groups have been involved. Azad Deccan movement and another movement Hyderabadi Nizam Tehreek may be putting pressure on Owaisi's to challenge the Hindutva groups. This however isn't just common with these 2 groups I mentioned. The real issue is that the Muslims of Hyderabad mostly feel the same way and feel they have been wronged. Eliminate the underlying issue and the problem will be resolved. Be favourable to one community and not another it may persist.

Owaisi brothers are good people. I know someone who is related to people among the family. This is frustration speaking. Listen to the laws he has proposed which have been struck down. Being a minority is very hard. Don't judge these people too harshly. Personally I strongly believe in secularism and the fact that it should not hurt anyone's bum if the Hindus in Pakistan make a speech, even an anti-muslim one on account of the fact they have been suffering. They are a minority community.

Plus isn't it now that the issue is being diverted.

They should have moved to Karachi in 1947 like Asif Iqbal and that Loose Talk host,Anwar Maqsud.

Your suspicions very valid krait... I am sticking my bum in two communities affairs. It is actually the other way around. I am trying to adopt Pashtun identity but initially of Lucknowi descent with relatives spread out in other regions... you will not understand as the internal ethnic situation in Pakistan is largely beyond you very much as I would know very little about Madras... not your fault actually very little coverage. But knowing about the movement and frequenting the Azad Deccan office in Canada I know a bit of the background. As far as Deccan and Lucknowi politics are concerned I have a link to it because of our background. Both have part of my family.

My family indeed does have its ancestral home in India. Its 2/5 of our family in Pakistan and 3/5 in India. Perhaps its 1/2 for both but I don't know because of the visa issue and loss of contact with the family in India particularly those not in Lucknow since the closest relatives remain there. This is not actually uncommon.

I have for a very long time very strongly identified with many muslims and supported them though of course consider myself Pakistani. But they have been moving away from us for a while now and been integrating. Most are integrated in India. Later on partly because of that I wondered if it was really healthy to be concerned about them so much and later by traversing on a path of adopting another culture a lot of my initial contact with them largely disappeared. The real problem as far as our family is concerned is in Hyderabad from where Owaisi gave this speech. There were killings there right after Gujarat or an after affect which have heavily been ignored and under-reported. Its a very religiously polarized town and some relatives were killed there.

Think of this. Ancestral land belonging to a lot of Muslims was appropriated in 1948 and the years after it, still not returned. There is a higher proportion of Muslims in the Hyderabad jail than their population. If you check that speech you will see the housing problem is massive. It was part of the reason one family moved from Hyderabad even as late as 2004.

As far as Owaisi is concerned I do not want to prejudice you against him as that will only cause a crisis for relatives. Some have even caught a comment from this site very long ago in the past and told me so. You identifying so closely with us and saying you are a Pakistani will mean RSS mobs may attack us but they can't touch Pakistan. He has never stated anti-Indian feelings. Even in this speech he means Hindustan as in Hindutvadi groups.

But recently some pressure groups have been involved. Azad Deccan movement and another movement Hyderabadi Nizam Tehreek may be putting pressure on Owaisi's to challenge the Hindutva groups. This however isn't just common with these 2 groups I mentioned. The real issue is that the Muslims of Hyderabad mostly feel the same way and feel they have been wronged. Eliminate the underlying issue and the problem will be resolved. Be favourable to one community and not another it may persist.

Owaisi brothers are good people. I know someone who is related to people among the family. This is frustration speaking. Listen to the laws he has proposed which have been struck down. Being a minority is very hard. Don't judge these people too harshly. Personally I strongly believe in secularism and the fact that it should not hurt anyone's bum if the Hindus in Pakistan make a speech, even an anti-muslim one on account of the fact they have been suffering. They are a minority community.

Plus isn't it now that the issue is being diverted.

How do u manage to be a clown and sound serious all the time?

 

[doublemaster]

Oh please...u and your permanent victim card..currently full scale disturbances in Old City...half a dozen buses burnt there and stone pelting going on in various areas..tomorrow Bandh in Hyd, Nizamabad nd Adilabad...looks like there is a huge support for Owaisi and his views there.

People like u will be there every wer.
people elect goondas in your group too.

 

[haviZsultan]

People like u will be there every wer.
people elect goondas in your group too.

Bro, we in Pakistan, especially families that have ancestral homes in these areas always supported you guys but even I am getting worried now that our support is unwanted. In fact I have constantly defended minorities in the sub-continent, India, Pakistan regardless. But this has been making our own position in Pakistan a bit tenuous because we take interest in the affairs of what is now considered another country... that is a reason for perhaps what many may call an identity crisis for me and the communities that shifted as a whole-culminating in the rise of a terrorist organization called the MQM seeking to represent migrants. The entire integration of these migrants into local fabric has been hampered largely because of our loyalty to you and sometimes we have to wonder what we got?

My almost eternal loyalty to Firgangi mahal (read its history on wikipedia) which is my family home and the ansari clan associated with it has always remained but the issue is you guys don't seem to want our help even though everyone, including relatives in India know that this was where Muslim League leaders met and this same house had a major role to play in the formation of Pakistan, as probably did many of your houses.

I personally defended Muslims left there the whole time, solidly identifying with you guys as a lot of people were ansaris. You can find proof on this site and due to our father moving late from India and mother only after marriage (she was Indian) having extensive links with Lucknow. But eventually it seemed you guys didn't want anything to do with us.

Still issues which you should be raising like the average population of muslims being 40% of the population in Indian jails and the literacy rate of muslims being lower than any other group and much lower than parsis and jains were highlighted by Pakistanis, especially those of us that had family here and strong stakes there... this was proven right when right after gujarat riots the riots spread to other cities. Muslim groups have been clamoring for first a correct estimate of Muslim casualties in Gujarat and then an addition of the casualties in other places.

It sad that this bond is slowly disappearing because a lot of us have families on both sides and Pakistanis have always felt strongly for Muslims. For example my fathers side largely moved to Pakistan, mothers side stayed on in India but marriages between 2 houses constant. Families in Karachi wanted wives for their sons from ancestral villages, towns and cities which is becoming less frequent now.

My relatives from Hyderabad, who are very distant because as I said the links in Lucknow much more solid, have had the courage to admit how much the support, moral or in shifting families in Pakistan under Sufferers Witness has helped but most of you don't seem to acknowledge it even though its quite clear that if a pogrom that is countrywide (Gujarat was countrywide-it spread to Gujrat, Bihar, Bengal and in many regions-the government averted disaster by under-reporting the riots because then it would become a war of attrition-to date ) the only place to go to is Pakistan. If you don't believe it look at those guys we shifted from Hyderabad through Sufferers Witness and other humanitarian groups-they didn't believe it could happen either.

My point is we have always been loyal to Muslims living on that side and when we see no reciprocity we feel that we put ourselves in a tenuous position for those links. Personally take my example, my loyalty to my ancestral house which is now the property of our Lucknowite family members is making it difficult for me to integrate completely as a Pashtun and racists can always claim-see you still have a solid bond with them so you have one foot there and another here. So we put ourselves on the line for you guys but apparently you guys don't want us. We moved whole families after Gujarat riots through Sufferers Witness and despite problematic FIA staff doing all paperwork and things like that but no one cares about us.

Maybe its because being seen to have links with Pakistan is a crime there and I have been told as much by Lucknowites and have witnessed in Lucknow too, but in either case it hasn't helped things. Long ago my uncle told me there used to be bets during cricket matches with muslims putting their stakes with Pakistan and hindus India but the division that has occurred over the years is quite painful.

Even here note: only some we know are separatists of the Azad Deccan Movement but that tends to happen if your mobs kill relatives, police locks the family members up in jails when they try to file reports and then when they go to the courts suggestions like go to Pakistan. YES, IT HAPPENED and if I were to speak for my clan, my family, it happened to US, regardless of Pakistani or Indian.

By saying people elect gunda's in your group too (meaning you do as well?) you are saying that Owaisi brothers are gunda's? What was wrong with what he said? Hindu leaders say this all the time man. The real RSS speeches, in them you can't take a camera or video recorder inside and you have no idea what venom they spew. How you are saying this is Owaisi's fault? He gave proper statistics for those regions. Forget bias against old city, muslims living in outskirts have no rights. Afzalganj is totally controlled by RSS mobs and they to this day give provocative speeches. He makes one speech and is marched off to jail? What about the 3 bullets he took just for fighting for your rights?

My cousin in Lucknow said muslims in India are like sheep. Personally I feel they will remain so if they fail to elect a proper leadership. AIMIM and Muslim two only real Muslim groups in India that talk about rights. Its your choice to support them or not but I believe there could be nothing more childish than just condemning him because these other people are enraged at him. Where I posted this video a Muslim made the comment that he was going to quit congress and join AIMIM. Others should think about their position as well. 1 person saying something won't make an effect, 10 people maybe ignored but 100 people may shake some tree. I suggest you think of this before condemning Owaisi.

 

[haviZsultan]

I'm taking an exception in replying to a Pakistani on this issue. But the gross amount of ratioanalization you have attempted makes me do so.

Will reply too as this may be one of the first useful reply from someone I consider a regular forum troll.

Whose fault is that ? I mean surely it was not the non-muslims who started all this "we dont want to live with Hindus" thing. People should have been ready to sacrifice everything when they started it. You cant have the cake and try to eat it too.

I have seen this in a lot of you Indians to look down upon the Muslims. Akbaruddin even in this speech stated that this is his home and he will stay there. He said "hum bhag key Pakistan nahi janay walay." Then in response to fanatics... lets say what some of the posters here said that they should either go or leave their religion or make it secondary he said "Agar hum jayein gey toh taj mahal bhi ley key jayein gey, charminar bhi ley key jayein gey"... you may call it communal but it is very hard for you to understand what he is saying. He is saying that Muslims make India the rich culture it is and these things belong to Muslims. He is reiterating that this land belongs to them.

Lot of times I hear this as if the prison population must be in sync with the overall population..if some one commits a crime he/she will be jailed. If muslims are more in jails then that means they committed more crimes. What should there be a reservation system in jails in tune with the demographic balance.

Or there could be bias from the police... a simple example. In Lucknow went to visit a hospital where a relative was. Police look at me and the woman walking with me in abaya. Stops us both and says can't enter. Moments later all these families with bindi's and saris are going in.

There is intrinsic bias against Muslims in India. I have no idea what to do if you don't see it. Personally I believe your attitude is part of the issue. I am no real muslim, don't pray and have done some wild stuff in the old days.

But even I can see that you don't like them very much or blame them for your problems.

BTW Muslims are roughly 45% in Hyderabad area..can you produce the relevant jail statistics to show that they are 'overepresented' what ever eff that means ?

I can search for those statistics tomorrow. Personally I am an independent journalist, albeit not highly successful but my focus is on Pakistan. So I can usually quote any statistic from Pakistan but usually not from other regions.

As far as Muslims in all of India are concerned they are 40% of the jail population from a report in 2009. Their real population as percentage of total national population? 13.4%. I believe it would be more substantial if a person from a minority community, in this case Muslim which wasn't a fake account (which have been seen in the past and proven to be by non-muslims to misrepresent them-you can ask webbie about it too) made a statement.

Housing problem as in ?..yaara I've been in Hyd and as I said 45% of Hyderabad are Muslims..but their overwhelming majority is in the Old city area, a ghetto, which has remained a ghetto like forever..and you know what..it has always been represented by the Owaisi clan. If they are so good and caring why not improve the life standards of the residents of the Old City and not keep them in permament poverty and siege complex so as to reap their votes forever ?

Its supposed to be 40% and was once 60% before partition. With migration and with pogroms resulted in the reduction. I partly have knowledge about that area on account of having worked with families from there. In 2001 the last census took place I think and the population was around 41.17%. Figures for both communities are rounded off.

Those things he said in his speech? Raise question marks don't they? About the schools being less, the difference in funding of madrassas, 17 of them having no teachers? Check the full 1 hour address. He is frustrated the demands he makes aren't being fulfilled.

You can't blame it being a ghetto for its support for AIMIM. Our family in Lucknow lives in a very old area. Our ancestral house as it used to be is now just a sprawling community since land has been divided among sons, their sons and so on. Personally I always advise them to vote AIMIM but it remains a local party. Though knowing Owaisi's its clear they dream of being a national one of all muslims.

Never knew there were 100 crore hindutvadis in India..not even the most optimist braggard right winger would claim that.

You do not consider yourself a hindutvadi? That is pleasing to know... though I believe it is more of a mindset.
What do you think about Christians right to convert people?

Did some one just compare Muslims in India and Hindus in Pakistan...?? Enough said.

This is about Indian Muslims not Pakistani Hindus. If you want to debate that I will release a (Pakistani) minority report sometime soon... especially in case a promotion is upcoming, though that does make it a little difficult for me to counter trolls the way I'd like to.

I made that statement on Pakistani hindus to eliminate you and your fellow Indians ever existent insecurity.

How do u manage to be a clown and sound serious all the time?

I often clown around when I meet a troll but in this case I was serious.

They are a minority, weak and barely making 2% of the population. Surely they can claim to be marginalized and it is their right. To fight for their rights is also their right and it is the responsibility of the majority community to lend them voice.

It is quite a surprise the people that survive on this site. No ban for you sir recently, may I ask?

 

[bronxbull]

Ok Haviz,

Let me give you some straight facts.People of the Nizam's Andhra which was Telengana faced a lot of atrocities and the Razakar forces slaughtered them in beech bazaar and much worse things.

They never got a fair deal in the new state because the english speaking people of the Madras Presidency got all the jobs,political power and thus a lot of benefits.

So,the local people are full of anger from all the frustrations.

The Nizam of Hyderabad was openly against India,tried to be independent,tried to say he was a part of pakistan,emptied his treasury and tried to give it off to Pakistan,etc etc.

India intervened and took Hyderabad and most of the muslims of Hyderabad moved to Karachi,as you know yourself.

The Razakars survived as MIM and still are around today because of the congress trying to keep the power.

Now,thats gone.The D Day is here and the ones who remainded behind and relied on the Congress have been betrayed,so now they have to go to war and solve their issue.

what makes you think,we would show any mercy towards people who slaughtered us in the middle of the road?

 

[notsuperstitious]

I see some people are still confused. This muhajir who is calling owaisis good guys seems to forget far more subcontinental muslims have been killed in karachi than muslims in hyderabad. His own solution to his issues is to adopt pakhtun language and culture and give up his own identity, but he wants hyderabadi muslims to ''slaughter hindus'' by asking police to stand by.

Then in the same breath he lies about gujarat, while never mentioning the same MIM idiots were crying that police were actually asked to stand by in gujarat.

The confusion is classic, its hate based, historical, it emerges from the mythical glorious past and the current victimhood mentality + reality, it comes from chest thumping about the so called 1000 years and the persecution by hindus at the same time, its not real, its ideological, its selfish, its religious, its fake, false, fantastic, supremacist, hypocritical.

What such people say is immaterial, such hate preachers have taken their country to great heights, and now they are spreading their intelligence here, the irony.

 

[Iggy]

Akbar first MIM leader to be jailed on serious charges

Hyderabad, Jan 9 (IANS) Controversies are not new to leaders of the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM). But Akbaruddin Owaisi is the first leader in its post-independence history to face serious charges like sedition and waging war against the nation.
While MIM leaders were jailed during the 1975-77 Emergency and also for political reasons, Akbar became perhaps the first leader to be incarcerated for hate speeches.
A third-time member of the Andhra Pradesh assembly, the MIM firebrand is in serious trouble for his speeches delivered in Nirmal and Nizamabad towns last month.
The 42-year-old is also facing the risk of being disqualified as a legislator with leaders cutting across the political spectrum demanding action against him for his alleged venomous speeches.
Ever since he discontinued his medical education to enter politics in 1993, Akbar thrived on fiery speeches, targeting political rivals and highlighting the 'injustice' and 'excesses' on Muslims in the country.
Even before he contested an election, he was a huge hit with the masses in the Old City, especially youths who would wait for hours in the night to hear him.
Those were the days when his father and MIM chief Sultan Salahuddin Owaisi was facing the toughest challenge to his political domination in Hyderabad from Amanullah Khan, who had parted ways to float the Majlis Bahchao Tehreek (MBT).
Akbar emerged as a tall leader, defeating Amanullah Khan in his stronghold in 1999. After his elder brother Asaduddin Owaisi moved to the Lok Sabha in 2004, Akbar became the party head in the assembly.
Akbar survived an attempt on his life by his rivals in May 2011. He was shot and stabbed by four attackers.
Akbar, who still has a bullet embedded in his thigh, began to be called 'Sher-e-Deccan' (Tiger of Deccan) by his followers.
While police have booked cases against the Owaisi brothers on many occasions and in some cases warrants too were issued, they were never arrested, thanks to MIM's friendly ties with party in power.
Political observers point out that most of the cases were booked when they were leading public protests on various issues and in some cases the police was also was soft due to political pressure.
This time, Akbar Owaisi's rabblerousing speeches were seen by his rivals as crossing all limits of decency and decorum in public life.
The MIM, which severed its ties with ruling Congress in November, found isolated this time.
Akbar comes from a family which dominated Hyderabad politics for over four decades. It was his grandfather Abdul Wahid Owaisi who revived MIM with a new constitution in 1958.
The party, which was established in 1928 to keep the then Hyderabad State independent, was banned after the state's merger with Indian Union in 1948.
Taking over the mantle from his father in 1976, Sultan Salahuddin Owaisi made a powerful political force. From a single seat in the assembly, MIM increased its strength to five in the 1980s and seven in 2009.
Critics say the party cashed in on the communal polarization but the MIM points out that it made a Hindu leader the mayor of Hyderabad.
Salahuddin Owaisi was first elected to the Lok Sabha from Hyderabad in 1984. Since then the Owaisi family has maintained its grip on the seat.

Akbar first MIM leader to be jailed on serious charges - Yahoo! News India

 

[Puchtoon]

Its their mentality from ages , NOTHING NEW in what akbaruddin said . Eventually it will hurt Muslims themselves .

 

[arbit]

Dude, In your community person who can -rent a riot- is also hero. No one discussed about shooting him publicly or anything. He is still a hero.

For you RSS Bajrangadal are real heros who hosted pak flag in karnataka to create a riot. No one asked for banning them. No one asked to shoot the people who hosted pak flag.


This thread is running 32 pages because it was done by a criminal politician who unfortunately a muslim.

Enough man enough.....

Bajrang dal is not 'a hero' for me. I have never supported them in actions or words or in public. In fact I am the first to denounce them and act AGAINST them whenever I get the chance.
RSS though I support.

But this is a fact that as a community you folks can be more tolerant which you are not. That my friend is my only grouse.

 

[LURKER]

"I have seen this in a lot of you Indians to look down upon the Muslims. Akbaruddin even in this speech stated that this is his home and he will stay there. He said "hum bhag key Pakistan nahi janay walay." Then in response to fanatics... lets say what some of the posters here said that they should either go or leave their religion or make it secondary he said "Agar hum jayein gey toh taj mahal bhi ley key jayein gey, charminar bhi ley key jayein gey"... you may call it communal but it is very hard for you to understand what he is saying. He is saying that Muslims make India the rich culture it is and these things belong to Muslims. He is reiterating that this land belongs to them."

He said a lot of things about Lord Ram and other hindu deities in bad taste which even VHP and other group leaders have not said about Islamic prophets, and also he's an elected MLA which VHP RSS leaders are not.



"Or there could be bias from the police... a simple example. In Lucknow went to visit a hospital where a relative was. Police look at me and the woman walking with me in abaya. Stops us both and says can't enter. Moments later all these families with bindi's and saris are going in. "

I'v never witnessed any such saari burkha drama in Lucknow u've mentioned. lot of muslim ladies wear burkha in markets and malls and no one cares, and police are not deployed in hospitals in lucknow (BTW which hospital did u visit?) , this is not karachi



"You can't blame it being a ghetto for its support for AIMIM. Our family in Lucknow lives in a very old area. Our ancestral house as it used to be is now just a sprawling community since land has been divided among sons, their sons and so on. Personally I always advise them to vote AIMIM but it remains a local party. Though knowing Owaisi's its clear they dream of being a national one of all muslims. "

So now you're poisoning the minds of your relatives in Lucknow.
There's no point giving your special advice to them as MIM has no presence in lucknow, even if it was present it would stand no chance to win a single seat. May i remind you of a Muslim party(though not communal as MIM) named Peace party's outcome in the last year's elections in U.P. it could manage a dozen odd seats out of 400+.

 

[arbit]

Will reply too as this may be one of the first useful reply from someone I consider a regular forum troll.

I have seen this in a lot of you Indians to look down upon the Muslims. Akbaruddin even in this speech stated that this is his home and he will stay there. He said "hum bhag key Pakistan nahi janay walay." Then in response to fanatics... lets say what some of the posters here said that they should either go or leave their religion or make it secondary he said "Agar hum jayein gey toh taj mahal bhi ley key jayein gey, charminar bhi ley key jayein gey"... you may call it communal but it is very hard for you to understand what he is saying. He is saying that Muslims make India the rich culture it is and these things belong to Muslims. He is reiterating that this land belongs to them.

I would disagree with your first line rest we are on the same page. Completely. Of course Its their land as well and many of us appreciate their contribution culturally.

Or there could be bias from the police... a simple example. In Lucknow went to visit a hospital where a relative was. Police look at me and the woman walking with me in abaya. Stops us both and says can't enter. Moments later all these families with bindi's and saris are going in.

Can you explain a little what 'could' be the reason. I find it a little hard to believe that too in Lucknow. My relatives live in Lucknow and have many Muslims friends as well. What you are telling may not be the complete story.

There is intrinsic bias against Muslims in India. I have no idea what to do if you don't see it. Personally I believe your attitude is part of the issue. I am no real muslim, don't pray and have done some wild stuff in the old days.

But even I can see that you don't like them very much or blame them for your problems.

Intrinsic bias against Muslims! Sir, you can very well point figures at us we won't mind. But before you do that make sure your hands are clean.

I can search for those statistics tomorrow. Personally I am an independent journalist, albeit not highly successful but my focus is on Pakistan. So I can usually quote any statistic from Pakistan but usually not from other regions.

As far as Muslims in all of India are concerned they are 40% of the jail population from a report in 2009. Their real population as percentage of total national population? 13.4%. I believe it would be more substantial if a person from a minority community, in this case Muslim which wasn't a fake account (which have been seen in the past and proven to be by non-muslims to misrepresent them-you can ask webbie about it too) made a statement.

Honestly surprised by your argument. The percentage of a demography in prison is not a reflection of bias against a community but an indicator about lack of opportunists, perhaps lack of education amongst other contributing factors. But all you can see is bias.

Those things he said in his speech? Raise question marks don't they? About the schools being less, the difference in funding of madrassas, 17 of them having no teachers? Check the full 1 hour address. He is frustrated the demands he makes aren't being fulfilled.

Lalu ruled Bihar for 15 years. No teachers or schools there in his reign. Its not only a matter of bias amongst Hindus and Muslims. This is more complicated than that. He was talking as a politician not as a Muslim leader. Ask nicely I will be happy to explain.

You do not consider yourself a hindutvadi? That is pleasing to know... though I believe it is more of a mindset.
What do you think about Christians right to convert people?

What exactly is a hindutva vadi. Would you care to elaborate. I am a hindutva vadi and I don't see anything wrong with that.

This is about Indian Muslims not Pakistani Hindus. If you want to debate that I will release a (Pakistani) minority report sometime soon... especially in case a promotion is upcoming, though that does make it a little difficult for me to counter trolls the way I'd like to.

I made that statement on Pakistani Hindus to eliminate you and your fellow Indians ever existent insecurity.

I am waiting for your statistical report. I would like to know how is it better than the real lives of people being hounded out of their homes in Pakistan. girls being kidnapped, mandirs being broken plus your blasphemy law. Pot calling the kettle black. Funny.

I often clown around when I meet a troll but in this case I was serious.
They are a minority, weak and barely making 2% of the population. Surely they can claim to be marginalized and it is their right. To fight for their rights is also their right and it is the responsibility of the majority community to lend them voice.

It is quite a surprise the people that survive on this site. No ban for you sir recently, may I ask?

You really did clown here this time. Leaving everything aside why don't you show us how responsible you are for your minorities and how content and happy and secure they feel in your better than perfect land so much so that you feel confident enough to preach us about our own country.

Get out of the ghettos man and look at all those Muslims Christians etc who, rather than to complaint, chose to be a part of the mainstream. And if not, you can live with your myopic view and criticize us while your own country made up of Islamists goes to dogs.

 

[KS]

Interesting take on the politics of MIM by Siasat editor Zahed ali Khan

https://soundcloud.com/tehelkaradio/decoding-mims-politics-in

"If Hindus get the perception that MIM represents the Muslims, then life would become very difficult for Muslims in India"


======


Another probe ordered against Akbaruddin Owaisi over hate speech- Politics News- IBNLive

Warangal: Another probe has been ordered against MIM MLA Akbaruddin Owaisi over an alleged hate speech. A magistrate's court here today directed Kazipet police to investigate and register an FIR against Owaisi, following a complaint by advocate Kotha Ravi of Bapujinagar, Kazipet.

Ravi has alleged that he saw a video of a provocative speech by Owaisi on the Internet, which targeted a community.

Owaisi was arrested on Tuesday evening in connection with his hate speech in Adilabad.

 

[KS]

Will reply too as this may be one of the first useful reply from someone I consider a regular forum troll.



I have seen this in a lot of you Indians to look down upon the Muslims. Akbaruddin even in this speech stated that this is his home and he will stay there. He said "hum bhag key Pakistan nahi janay walay." Then in response to fanatics... lets say what some of the posters here said that they should either go or leave their religion or make it secondary he said "Agar hum jayein gey toh taj mahal bhi ley key jayein gey, charminar bhi ley key jayein gey"... you may call it communal but it is very hard for you to understand what he is saying. He is saying that Muslims make India the rich culture it is and these things belong to Muslims. He is reiterating that this land belongs to them.




Or there could be bias from the police... a simple example. In Lucknow went to visit a hospital where a relative was. Police look at me and the woman walking with me in abaya. Stops us both and says can't enter. Moments later all these families with bindi's and saris are going in.

There is intrinsic bias against Muslims in India. I have no idea what to do if you don't see it. Personally I believe your attitude is part of the issue. I am no real muslim, don't pray and have done some wild stuff in the old days.

But even I can see that you don't like them very much or blame them for your problems.



I can search for those statistics tomorrow. Personally I am an independent journalist, albeit not highly successful but my focus is on Pakistan. So I can usually quote any statistic from Pakistan but usually not from other regions.

As far as Muslims in all of India are concerned they are 40% of the jail population from a report in 2009. Their real population as percentage of total national population? 13.4%. I believe it would be more substantial if a person from a minority community, in this case Muslim which wasn't a fake account (which have been seen in the past and proven to be by non-muslims to misrepresent them-you can ask webbie about it too) made a statement.



Its supposed to be 40% and was once 60% before partition. With migration and with pogroms resulted in the reduction. I partly have knowledge about that area on account of having worked with families from there. In 2001 the last census took place I think and the population was around 41.17%. Figures for both communities are rounded off.

Those things he said in his speech? Raise question marks don't they? About the schools being less, the difference in funding of madrassas, 17 of them having no teachers? Check the full 1 hour address. He is frustrated the demands he makes aren't being fulfilled.

You can't blame it being a ghetto for its support for AIMIM. Our family in Lucknow lives in a very old area. Our ancestral house as it used to be is now just a sprawling community since land has been divided among sons, their sons and so on. Personally I always advise them to vote AIMIM but it remains a local party. Though knowing Owaisi's its clear they dream of being a national one of all muslims.



You do not consider yourself a hindutvadi? That is pleasing to know... though I believe it is more of a mindset.
What do you think about Christians right to convert people?



This is about Indian Muslims not Pakistani Hindus. If you want to debate that I will release a (Pakistani) minority report sometime soon... especially in case a promotion is upcoming, though that does make it a little difficult for me to counter trolls the way I'd like to.

I made that statement on Pakistani hindus to eliminate you and your fellow Indians ever existent insecurity.



I often clown around when I meet a troll but in this case I was serious.

They are a minority, weak and barely making 2% of the population. Surely they can claim to be marginalized and it is their right. To fight for their rights is also their right and it is the responsibility of the majority community to lend them voice.

It is quite a surprise the people that survive on this site. No ban for you sir recently, may I ask?

Hey I dont give a rats *** what some identity stricken guy who was permanently psychologically scarred by few pathans in pathan forums to says about the discourse in India or about me. You dont matter in India (and being a mohajir you dont matter in Pakistan either). I just took an exception to make a point and I made it.