HAL To Reconfigure The ALH Dhruv As A Dedicated Air Ambulance

[Manindra]

My dear friend please give me some link about the orders to HAL. I searched their website but couldn't find anything about orders.

Rafael case isn't different. The objective is to maintain the production line as long as possible for future options. If you are saying HAL has huge work order and is sitting on it. Please give some source to that information.

+ as far as Lockheed Martine is concerned they have promised many thing for F-35 and I really didn't follow the process. So @sancho or @Abingdonboy will be more in position to comment on that.

How many rotocraft we import from abroad in ALH category & who the heck give order to that firm who already overburden with current order.
You can also check the order status of ONGC , NDRF , Home ministry , Various state government which has got unjustifiable waiting & their sales after service is also pathetic.

 

[Sergi]

How many rotocraft we import from abroad in ALH category & who the heck give order to that firm who already overburden with current order.
You can also check the order status of ONGC , NDRF , Home ministry , Various state government which has got unjustifiable waiting & their sales after service is also pathetic.

How many rotocraft we import from abroad - its pretty good number.

in ALH category - its debatable. The numbers in this category are very low due to simple cost issues.

Again , if you are putting numbers then why not backup with the source ??? I am not a big fan of our PSUs either but I don't blame them without any valid reason.
And also care to give some link or source on waiting for ALH too. Dont just blame it. Back it up.

Please see the recent Uttaranchal operation. You will find good number of ALH used. Thats good enough for me.

 

[Manindra]

How many rotocraft we import from abroad - its pretty good number.

in ALH category - its debatable. The numbers in this category are very low due to simple cost issues.

Again , if you are putting numbers then why not backup with the source ??? I am not a big fan of our PSUs either but I don't blame them without any valid reason.
And also care to give some link or source on waiting for ALH too. Dont just blame it. Back it up.

Please see the recent Uttaranchal operation. You will find good number of ALH used. Thats good enough for me.

There are 159 order from IA for ALH alone spare 76 order for WSI version. In domestic sector 6 order from Home Ministry & SERVERAL PSUs & State Government interested in but after long waiting watch experience of Jharkhand & Chhattisgarh Government & ONGC they backed. If we count only 159 order then it will take time more than 4 years to fulfill if they produce 36 helicopter per year their target , spare WSI version , LUH , LCH & civilian & export orders.
HAL making 159 Dhruvs for Indian Army | Business Standard
Here is glimse of working culture of HAL

3.7.2 Labour utilisation
The labour hours booking is done manually through job cards although ERP system has
been implemented in the Helicopter division. GHT consultant recommended (1997)
labour hours for manufacture of different versions of helicopter which were revised by a
MoD nominated Committee (July 2003). The actual hours booked vis-à-vis the norms
were as under:
Labour hours prescribed by the
consultant
Labour hours fixed by the
committee
Average hours booked by
the Helicopter division
(a) 38,500 for the 1st ALH
(b) 30,000 from 50th ALH
(a) Skid version- 99,500
(b) Wheeled version-1,11,500
LSP* version16 -88,768
SP** version –58,367
*LSP-Limited Series Production; **SP-Series Production
The Company was, thus, not able to achieve the consultant prescribed hours till date.
Despite delivery of 90 ALH upto 2008-09, the Company has not gained the experience
and benefit of learning curve to achieve reduction in labour hours/cost.
The Management stated (December 2009) that experience has been gained now which
will benefit for 159 ALH orders and future contracts. Optimisation of labour hours will
be realised in next two years.
In the light of average hours booked, the labour hour requirement needs to be reviewed
denovo. Further, efficiency of labour can be better monitored through ERP system.

3.7.5.2 Penetration into civil/non-defence market
Despite getting type certification of DGCA in October 2003 for the civil variant of ALH,
the Company could sell only 16 ALH in the domestic civil market and with orders for
another 6 on hand towards civil/export order. The recommendation of the consultant ‘for
an aggressive programme to develop not only domestic but also opportunities beyond
India’ has not been taken seriously by the Company despite the ALH project equipped
with a dedicated Marketing wing. A separate marketing budget and specific targets for
the marketing wing on commercial market penetration are needed to effectively penetrate
the domestic market. The Company could not successfully execute even the orders
received from civil market as indicated in the Annexure-IX.
Further though the lease option of ALH was considered advantageous, the Company
could not capitalise on the lease transactions it ventured with the Government of
Karnataka and Israel Aircraft Industries, Israel (between November 2004 and May 2005)
due to problems with Tail Rotor Blade (TRB). The inability of the Company to address
the issues had dampened the confidence in the market which is evident from the fact that
there is no lease agreement with the Company subsequently.
Recommendation No. 3.3
The Company should expedite efforts to get International certificate on priority to be a
global player. The Company should exploit civil market by executing the orders
successfully and consider options of sale technique through leasing of ALH.

http://cag.gov.in/html/reports/commercial/2010-11_10PA/chap3.pdf

 

[Sergi]

There are 159 order from IA for ALH alone spare 76 order for WSI version. In domestic sector 6 order from Home Ministry & SERVERAL PSUs & State Government interested in but after long waiting watch experience of Jharkhand & Chhattisgarh Government & ONGC they backed. If we count only 159 order then it will take time more than 4 years to fulfill if they produce 36 helicopter per year their target , spare WSI version , LUH , LCH & civilian & export orders.
HAL making 159 Dhruvs for Indian Army | Business Standard
Here is glimse of working culture of HAL





http://cag.gov.in/html/reports/commercial/2010-11_10PA/chap3.pdf

Form the link you posted
Under audit findings

The Company has so far (December 2009) delivered 90 ALH, out of which 74 ALH were delivered to defence customers and 16 ALH to other customers. The Company has orders on hand for 159 ALH from defence customers and 6 ALH from other customers to be delivered by 2015-16. The weaponised version of ALH is still under development. It can be seen that as against envisaged and approved production of 296 ALH by Board upto 2008-09, target set was for 104 ALH while actual production was only 96 ALH.
On a review of actual production vis-a vis production plan, it was observed that though a peak production of 32 ALH was planned from 2002-03, the present available capacity was only 24, due to non-availability of dedicated jigs for 32 ALH at the critical assembly stage. Production and delivery of 20 utility version of ALH due in 2008-09, was shifted to 2009-10 since the Company was addressing the problems on Integration of Shakti Engine, interchangeable parts, Active Vibration Control system and Communication system. Further, the budget estimates were revised every year to bring them in line with the actual production. The Company had paid Rs. 43 crore liquidated damages and is further liable to pay Rs. 21 crore for delay in supplies up to 2008-09.
The following paragraphs highlight various issues leading to failure on part of the Company to achieve its expected goals/production in the ALH project.

It looks pretty good to me. I don't expect HAL to be "Lockheed Martin".

 

[Manindra]

Form the link you posted
Under audit findings


It looks pretty good to me. I don't expect HAL to be "Lockheed Martin".

I don't compare HAL to LM, Eurocopter or Bell nor I want to HAL to export their products my only wish is that HAL should grow to be selfsufficient for domestic orders which profit many time fold to exports.

 

[confound thinker]

Why do we need a global tender for this job.Can't this be easily done at home??
Or is is a very complex transformation??

 

[Sergi]

I don't compare HAL to LM, Eurocopter or Bell nor I want to HAL to export their products my only wish is that HAL should grow to be selfsufficient for domestic orders which profit many time fold to exports.

That is exactly what they are doing at least in this case. With limited resources and lack of access to latest techs I think they are doing good.
They will evolve but they should focus on good management too.
Unlike LM they are PSU , profit isn't only thing they look for - but i agree it shouldn't be the thing they ignore too.

Lets hope for the best and they achieve IA requirements in time and can supply to civilians too.