HAL LCH TD-3 Passes Hot & High Altitude Trails at Leh - First Attack Helicopter to Land at Siachen

[Capt.Popeye]

@Chanakya's_Chant much appreciated for the detailed response along with pics of the other platforms. However, the LCH platform looks far more efficiently designed for patrol roles when compared to the Rudra model - which seems more like a platform to deploy combat units in quick drop off mode.

Probably the hilly terrain qould require such a man - intensive operation and hence a Rudra type platform is in equal need compare to a machine intensive model (the LCH).

The evolution of the LCH could take it much farther than I see in the present levels. I still think 12-14 squadrons of the orders for LCH right now are pretty low for India's threat perception as well as the amount of area it needs to defend.

You're on track there. The LCH is sure to touch 200+ in IA's AAC. With the Rudra in even more numbers, precisely for the reasons that you mention. Just as the Armed version of the Mi-17s are flying now.
More Rudras will get deployed to the N and NE theaters. These two Helos have their future roles cut out for them.
What needs to be clarified now; is the clear doctrinal shift that will involve devolving more Rotorcraft roles to the IA than the IAF.

During Kargil we had to use Mi17 in attack role with tragic result since mi 24 could not fly at such heights.

The Mi-35 is seriously constrained to fly above 10-12,000 ft.

 

[Spectre]

You're on track there. The LCH is sure to touch 200+ in IA's AAC. With the Rudra in even more numbers, precisely for the reasons that you mention. Just as the Armed version of the Mi-17s are flying now.
More Rudras will get deployed to the N and NE theaters. These two Helos have their future roles cut out for them.
What needs to be clarified now; is the clear doctrinal shift that will involve devolving more Rotorcraft roles to the IA than the IAF.




The Mi-35 is seriously constrained to fly above 10-12,000 ft.

Sir, do the roles of Mi-17 V5 and Ka - 226 overlap with these helos? if yes, then is the rational for buying russian helos operational urgency?

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

@Chanakya's_Chant much appreciated for the detailed response along with pics of the other platforms. However, the LCH platform looks far more efficiently designed for patrol roles when compared to the Rudra model - which seems more like a platform to deploy combat units in quick drop off mode.

Probably the hilly terrain qould require such a man - intensive operation and hence a Rudra type platform is in equal need compare to a machine intensive model (the LCH).

The evolution of the LCH could take it much farther than I see in the present levels. I still think 12-14 squadrons of the orders for LCH right now are pretty low for India's threat perception as well as the amount of area it needs to defend.

WSI ALH Rudra is nothing but a weaponized version of ALH Dhruv - Indian Army wants the Rudra's airborne firepower in 'contact' battle scenarios thereby constituting a third another manoeuvre arm with lethal strike capability. While employing the basic Dhruv layout, Rudra has a higher percentage of carbon-carbon composite materials to achieve weight reduction. It has commonality in avionics with the Dhruv Mk III sporting a NVG-compatible cockpit with MFDs, dual flight controls and an autopilot. The avionics suite like the standard Dhruv also includes GPS, FLIR, HF/UHF communications radio, IFF, Doppler navigation and a radio altimeter. An EO (Electro-optic) pod helmet-mounted sight and fixed sights ensure accurate targeting with onboard weapons and a more powerful engine - the Shakti engines give Rudra a sustained max speed of 270 kmph and enable it to fly to over 20000 feet, thereby making it very useful for engaging targets in the mountains in a variety of scenarios.

On the other hand Dhruv MkIII is now even being used in highly specialized roles along the line of Control to intercept terrorists as is evidenced by the workings of the 202 Army Aviation Squadron also known as the Soaring Gideons. Units such as these employ the Dhruv's advanced avionics to stealthily and quickly reach landing zones employing day/night nap of the earth flying in the mountains. The Dhruv's advanced communication systems also facilitate real time data sharing with other nodes such as Command HQ and RSTA assets.

Oddly HAL website states that LCH power is only 895kW. Similarly Dhruv III rated at 899kW. Looks like a transmission bottleneck.

Sources claim Shakti be delivering maximum continuous power of 1,000 kW in case of Dhruv Mk III whereas the improved version of it delivering around 1,067kW in case Rudra.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Sir, do the roles of Mi-17 V5 and Ka - 226 overlap with these helos? if yes, then is the rational for buying russian helos operational urgency?

No....... the Mi-17s and the Ka-226 do not overlap in any way here. The Mi-17 is a Medium Lift Helo, India does not have any other Rotorcraft in this class, nor is any being considered. The Kamov Sergei comes into replace both the Cheetah (mainly) and the Chetak (partly). It is HAL's LUH project that leaves me a bit confounded since all of the rotorcraft being talked about (including later tranches of Mi-17s) are to be built in India.

Looks good. Any plans to put a radar on the helicopter?? Without that, it has limited utility.

There is no information yet about such an add-on. To start with; its being said that the LCH will operate in tandem with Apache Longbows that India will acquire and a data-link will be utilised for data-transfer. Now with all the talk of Indo-US co-operation in defence manufacture, there may well be manufacture of purpose-built Radars down the line. But presently, its just speculation.

 

[surya kiran]

how much do you think the full production LCH will cost each??

IAF version is USD 4BN for 64 choppers. That's 62.5 MN per chopper.

@Chanakya's_Chant are you sure about the 20 figure?

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Indian Army version is USD 4BN for 64 choppers. That's 62.5 MN per chopper.

Thats way to high, kindly provide source for your claim, the cost will most probably be around 15 to 20.

 

[#hydra#]

No....... the Mi-17s and the Ka-226 do not overlap in any way here. The Mi-17 is a Medium Lift Helo, India does not have any other Rotorcraft in this class, nor is any being considered. The Kamov Sergei comes into replace both the Cheetah (mainly) and the Chetak (partly). It is HAL's LUH project that leaves me a bit confounded since all of the rotorcraft being talked about (including later tranches of Mi-17s) are to be built in India.



There is no information yet about such an add-on. To start with; its being said that the LCH will operate in tandem with Apache Longbows that India will acquire and a data-link will be utilised for data-transfer. Now with all the talk of Indo-US co-operation in defence manufacture, there may well be manufacture of purpose-built Radars down the line. But presently, its just speculation.

There is a practical problem in LCH based radar since it is a light weight helicopters. RADAR can be mounted but will eat main chunk of LCH's weapon load capacity.Non availability of radar may not be a problem for LCH in anti tank operation in desert,and other operations in NE areas since as you said apache will take care command and control, but in high altitude areas such as leh,ladak and even in Kashmir valley LCH have to operate by its own. Except LCH no attack helicopters can fly such altitude. We need to develop a heavy weight helicopters with radar asper IA requirements for operating in such areas.

 

[surya kiran]

Thats way to high, kindly provide source for your claim, the cost will most probably be around 15 to 20.

HAL Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) - Airforce Technology

 

[Lonely Hermit]

HAL Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) - Airforce Technology

"Indian Air Force will procure 64 LCHs as part of a $4bn contract signed with Hindustan Aeronautics." It is written as part of they didnt say its base price is that much. Dhruv base price itself cost 7m$ how come price got escalated when the R&D itself was around 54-100m$ according to wiki

 

[surya kiran]

ndian Air Force will procure 64 LCHs as part of a $4bn contract signed with Hindustan Aeronautics." It is written as part of they didnt say its base price is that much. Dhruv base price itself cost 7m$ how come price got escalated when the R&D itself was around 54-100m$ according to wiki

Was anything else signed? I am not aware, then. Maybe its with weapons.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Was anything else signed? I am not aware, then. Maybe its with weapons.

Su30 , AJT, Jaguar and mig upgrades take your pick.

 

[surya kiran]

Su30 , AJT, Jaguar and mig upgrades take your pick.

Hm...me thought that was the 18 BN deal.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

There is a practical problem in LCH based radar since it is a light weight helicopters. RADAR can be mounted but will eat main chunk of LCH's weapon load capacity.Non availability of radar may not be a problem for LCH in anti tank operation in desert,and other operations in NE areas since as you said apache will take care command and control, but in high altitude areas such as leh,ladak and even in Kashmir valley LCH have to operate by its own. Except LCH no attack helicopters can fly such altitude. We need to develop a heavy weight helicopters with radar asper IA requirements for operating in such areas.

All that is quite some way off; as I have mentioned already. There are no indications of that in any way; hence the speculation. Another: quicker and cheaper way may even be to have a stripped-down version of the LCH or Dhruva to act as a Radar platform which will then interlink with the other gunships. Another thing: in mountainous terrain, Radar has its limitations already, therefore data inputs will necessarily have to come from other sources/ sensors.

Note that all the Apaches which finally make it into the Indian inventory are not slated to be Longbows. That could be a pointer. In conclusion; at this point, it is thus in the realm of speculation.

 

[acetophenol]

No....... the Mi-17s and the Ka-226 do not overlap in any way here. The Mi-17 is a Medium Lift Helo, India does not have any other Rotorcraft in this class, nor is any being considered. The Kamov Sergei comes into replace both the Cheetah (mainly) and the Chetak (partly). It is HAL's LUH project that leaves me a bit confounded since all of the rotorcraft being talked about (including later tranches of Mi-17s) are to be built in India.



There is no information yet about such an add-on. To start with; its being said that the LCH will operate in tandem with Apache Longbows that India will acquire and a data-link will be utilised for data-transfer. Now with all the talk of Indo-US co-operation in defence manufacture, there may well be manufacture of purpose-built Radars down the line. But presently, its just speculation.

Strictly speaking,Sea Kings bro :p

 

[The_Sidewinder]

TD3 looks a killer beast Eagerly waiting for TD4.