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HAIDER: UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN’S NEXT-GENERATION TANK

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HAIDER: UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN’S NEXT-GENERATION TANK
http://quwa.org/2016/05/24/haider-understanding-pakistans-next-generation-tank/

In 2015, the Pakistan Army evaluated a number of next-generation main battle tanks (MBT), including the Chinese NORINCO VT-4. The program is under the designation “Haider,” a new MBT positioned to support the al-Khalid series of MBTs in the Army’s tank formations.

On the surface, it may seem curious why the Pakistan Army is searching for a new tank, especially when it already has the al-Khalid. After all, the al-Khalid was to form the mainstay of the Army’s tank inventory, and there is nothing to stop the design from incorporating new subsystems (such as self-protection suites) should they become available. What is the need for the Haider?

If the VT-4 (and another potential contestant, the Ukrainian Oplot-M) is to be considered, then it seems that the Haider program is leaning on the heavier side. In other words, the Pakistan Army is beginning to shift from its preference for highly mobile – but lightweight – MBTs in favour of heavier and up-armoured designs. The al-Khalid sits in the 45-ton area, the VT-4 and Oplot-M weigh a little over 50 tons. If powered by 1500hp engines, these designs could potentially take on even more weight should Pakistan require it.

Pakistan was reportedly even interested in the Turkish Otokar Altay MBT, a heavyweight of 65 tons. While not currently available for export (as Turkey needs to secure an exportable powerplant), the Army’s look at the Altay may indicate an interest in heavier and qualitatively driven MBTs. Weight, power and armour aside, the Altay is flush with cutting-edge subsystems, most notably the Akkor active self-protection suiteproduced by the Turkish electronics giant Aselsan.

To quantify what an active protection suite such as the Akkor would offer, it would be a good idea to start with how tanks are currently protected. There is the armour, but if facing a high velocity guided anti-tank missile (ATGM), one would prefer having that missile scuttled before it reaches the tank. This is done by trying to bury the ATGM’s guidance method, such as laser (through the use of a smokescreen). A passive protection suite basically tries to drive the incoming missile to miss; the Akkor active protection suite on the other hand will try to intercept the missile itself! Why is this important? Laser is not the only method of guiding modern (and especially future) ATGMs; millimeter wave (mmW) and imaging infrared (IIR) threaten to greatly neutralize current passive protection measures.

Now, combine that active protection suite with improved armour and up-powered powerplant in the tank. The result is a balanced and agile machine capable of withstanding punishment; add the ability to launch guided missiles and shells, said tank will also be capable of inflicting damage as well. Relative to the al-Khalid as it is today (we will get to its future development in a later article), the Haider would basically be the superior tank in every respect. As a platform, it gives Pakistan an opportunity to have a “smart tank” akin to the South Korean K2 Black Panther (developed by Hyundai Rotem).

By “smart tank” we refer to the idea of pairing a tank’s inherent firepower and defensive qualities within a network-centric warfare environment. Imagine a scenario where the Pakistan Army acquires an air-to-ground tactical data-link system that enables the Haider to build its situational awareness based on sensor data taken from a GMTI-SAR. The GMTI-SAR would enable the Haider to see a real-time picture of the battlefield with an understanding of enemy movements. The tank crew can proactively adjust their movements vis-à-vis the enemy, and do it in very close concert with their close air support (CAS)cover. In this scenario, a true JSTARS-like system would be a major asset.

Together, this formation would be a credible offensive asset and a means to add substantive depth to the Army’s conventional deterrence. Pakistan will not benefit from air superiority in a future war, but a sufficient number of (air covered) resilient machines on the ground networked to sensors that can acquire the complete battlefield picture could help Pakistan contest in tough situations.

In tandem, the comparatively lower-cost al-Khalid-series can be bought to continue phasing out the T-59 MBTs – in time, become the backbone. The Haider can serve as the offensive asset, and the al-Khalid can sit as a defensive or holding corps workhorse. Certain aspects of the Haider, such as the up-rated engine, newer armour technology, guided attack capabilities, and active protection suite could also be brought to the al-Khalid over the long-term. Of course, cost and added gains need to be balanced, there is no point in having an al-Khalid variant that ends up being as expensive as the Haider.

Besides the operational gains of the Haider, there is an industrial and self-reliance opportunity as well. The Army seems to have identified a new need, but it does not necessarily need to open a parallel support line – at least not entirely. Subsystems such as the powerplant, electronics, cannon, munitions, armour technology, and protection suite could be made common across the Army’s tank stable. These systems can be scaled across thousands of vehicles in the long-term, and in turn, should warrant domestic support. Local production and continued in-house support and development is a must.

The aforementioned technology can also be applied to wheeled vehicles as well, such as the 8×8 armoured personnel carrier (APC) the Army has been seeking for some time. In parallel with its tracked armour, the Army could even build up a mobility-centric offensive element as well.
 
Oplot-M Rejected due to Engine issues

MBT-3000 Also rejected

Get Altay from Turkey we can also add Altay systems to out Al-Khalid Tank which will increase the capabilities of it..
 
Great Read:

HAIDER: UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN’S NEXT-GENERATION TANK

July 27, 2016

T-99 A or NORINCO VT-4?

HAIDER: UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN’S NEXT-GENERATION TANK

In 2015, the Pakistan Army evaluated a number of next-generation main battle tanks (MBT), including the Chinese NORINCO VT-4 and later year T-99A. The program is under the designation “Haider,” a new MBT positioned to support the al-Khalid series of MBTs in the Army’s tank formations.

On the surface, it may seem curious why the Pakistan Army is searching for a new tank, especially when it already has the al-Khalid. After all, the al-Khalid was to form the mainstay of the Army’s tank inventory, and there is nothing to stop the design from incorporating new subsystems (such as self-protection suites) should they become available. What is the need for the Haider?

If the VT-4 (and another potential contestant, the Ukrainian Oplot-M, and the Chinese T-99A) is to be considered, then it seems that the Haider program is leaning on the heavier side. In other words, the Pakistan Army is beginning to shift from its preference for highly mobile – but lightweight – MBTs in favour of heavier and up-armoured designs. The al-Khalid sits in the 45-ton area, the VT-4 and Oplot-M weigh a little over 50 tons. If powered by 1500hp engines, these designs could potentially take on even more weight should Pakistan require it.

Pakistan was reportedly even interested in the Turkish Otokar Altay MBT, a heavyweight of 65 tons. While not currently available for export (as Turkey needs to secure an exportable powerplant), the Army’s look at the Altay may indicate an interest in heavier and qualitatively driven MBTs. Weight, power and armour aside, the Altay is flush with cutting-edge subsystems, most notably the Akkor active self-protection suite produced by the Turkish electronics giant Aselsan.

To quantify what an active protection suite such as the Akkor would offer, it would be a good idea to start with how tanks are currently protected. There is the armour, but if facing a high velocity guided anti-tank missile (ATGM), one would prefer having that missile scuttled before it reaches the tank. This is done by trying to bury the ATGM’s guidance method, such as laser (through the use of a smokescreen). A passive protection suite basically tries to drive the incoming missile to miss; the Akkor active protection suite on the other hand will try to intercept the missile itself! Why is this important? Laser is not the only method of guiding modern (and especially future) ATGMs; millimeter wave (mmW) and imaging infrared (IIR) threaten to greatly neutralize current passive protection measures.

Now, combine that active protection suite with improved armour and up-powered powerplant in the tank. The result is a balanced and agile machine capable of withstanding punishment; add the ability to launch guided missiles and shells, said tank will also be capable of inflicting damage as well. Relative to the al-Khalid as it is today(we will get to its future development in a later article), the Haider would basically be the superior tank in every respect. As a platform, it gives Pakistan an opportunity to have a “smart tank” akin to the South Korean K2 Black Panther (developed by Hyundai Rotem).

By “smart tank” we refer to the idea of pairing a tank’s inherent firepower and defensive qualities within a network-centric warfare environment. Imagine a scenario where the Pakistan Army acquires an air-to-ground tactical data-link system that enables the Haider to build its situational awareness based on sensor data taken from a GMTI-SAR. The GMTI-SAR would enable the Haider to see a real-time picture of the battlefield with an understanding of enemy movements. The tank crew can proactively adjust their movements vis-à-vis the enemy, and do it in very close concert with their close air support (CAS) cover. In this scenario, a true JSTARS-like system would be a major asset.

Together, this formation would be a credible offensive asset and a means to add substantive depth to the Army’s conventional deterrence. Pakistan will not benefit from air superiority in a future war, but a sufficient number of (air covered) resilient machines on the ground networked to sensors that can acquire the complete battlefield picture could help Pakistan contest in tough situations.

In tandem, the comparatively lower-cost al-Khalid-series can be bought to continue phasing out the T-59 MBTs – in time, become the backbone. The Haider can serve as the offensive asset, and the al-Khalid can sit as a defensive or holding corps workhorse. Certain aspects of the Haider, such as the up-rated engine, newer armour technology, guided attack capabilities, and active protection suite could also be brought to the al-Khalid over the long-term. Of course, cost and added gains need to be balanced, there is no point in having an al-Khalid variant that ends up being as expensive as the Haider.

Besides the operational gains of the Haider, there is an industrial and self-reliance opportunity as well. The Army seems to have identified a new need, but it does not necessarily need to open a parallel support line – at least not entirely. Subsystems such as the powerplant, electronics, cannon, munitions, armour technology, and protection suite could be made common across the Army’s tank stable. These systems can be scaled across thousands of vehicles in the long-term, and in turn, should warrant domestic support. Local production and continued in-house support and development is a must.

The aforementioned technology can also be applied to wheeled vehicles as well, such as the 8×8 armoured personnel carrier (APC) the Army has been seeking for some time. In parallel with its tracked armour, the Army could even build up a mobility-centric offensive element as well.

http://quwa.org/2016/05/24/haider-understanding-pakistans-next-generation-tank/


Which will form the base structure for Haider NG MBT Project, T-99A, VT-4, Oplot-M or Altay?
 
New Ukrainian engine for Haider or AK-2

Ukraine’s defence industry, the availability of an exportable 1500hp engine is a very welcome addition. In fact, a 1500hp power-rating has essentially become the standard for new MBT designs; the Hyundai Rotem K2 Black Panther, NORINCO VT-4, and Otokar Altay, among others. Given how proactive Turkey has been in recent months with securing joint-development and production agreements with Ukraine, it will be worth seeing if this new engine could make its way into the hands of Otokar and FNSS.

In a previous piece, we suggested that Pakistan could consider producing the 6TD-series of engines under license; the design could be scaled across thousands of al-Khalid and Haider-based designs over the next several decades. The fact that a 1500hp engine is available bodes well for the idea, especially if it manages to operate well in Pakistan’s diverse operational conditions. In such a scenario, the Haider program could also be impacted (by resulting in serious consideration of the Oplot-M or a heavily customized VT-4). Besides new tanks, Pakistan could theoretically retrofit existing designs, such as the al-Khalid, with the more powerful powerplant.

This is an assumption our part, but today could be the right time to try and secure a manufacturing plant for the 6TD line (1200hp and 1500hp). Ukraine’s precarious economic and political situation is a concern, but its technology base cannot be ignored; Pakistan could have meaningful latitude in securing licensed manufacturing rights at a relatively attractive cost.

The engine would enable the Pakistan Army to comfortably source its various tank designs – it would have limited concern of supply-side restrictions, especially in the long-term. It may also enhance Pakistan’s ability to export tanks as well (more so in the long-term when designs such as the al-Khalid 2 make an appearance). But the emphasis should be on having an engine available that is fully suited for Pakistan’s intrinsic needs without supply-side restrictions.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pas-new-haider-mbt-is-the-t99a-type-99-mbt.397187/page-12#ixzz4FdpSjtqy
 
As i have said before we should go for Altay with Ukranian Engine. it's best in class and the best thing is the akoor self protection system which we wouldn't get on VT-4 or oplot etc by using Ukrainian engine it would surely cost less and would be sanction proof. and i think Turkey/Ukraine wouldn't have any problem to issue a license to manufacture it under license.
 
Ukranian Engine. it's best in class and the best thing is the akoor self protection system

https://defence.pk/threads/active-protection-system-aps-for-tanks.418153/
I made some thread about Active Protection Systems for tanks around the world.
Akkor resembles some key features in Iron Fist by IMI


Well a good thread David. I think Turkish Aselan - Akkor Active Protection System as well as a few others including Israeli systems will be a great addition to Haider Tank Project Active protection...since Pakistan wants to build Haider as a 'Smart Tank' of the future.
 
Well a good thread David. I think Turkish Aselan - Akkor Active Protection System as as a few others will be a great addition to Haider Tank Project Active protection...since Pakistan wants to build Haider as a 'Smart Tank' of the future.
APS is the best way to start, altho making it in house is always a better option since the field always produce more measures and countermeasures.
As for future tank, I'd guess it'd be faster, with more stealthy design, and the ability to see outside the tank using 3d glasses like Iron Vision is also important for better situational awareness
 
APS is the best way to start, altho making it in house is always a better option since the field always produce more measures and countermeasures.

As for future tank, I'd guess it'd be faster, with more stealthy design, and the ability to see outside the tank using 3d glasses like Iron Vision is also important for better situational awareness


Yes, What Haider Project is all about is making a 'SMART TANK' that needs a advanced inhouse defense system against atgms and top attack ATGMS and Helicopters. Jamming systems like shotra are always vulnerable and workarounds are easy to develop to overcome those jammers. As we see in Syrian conflict T90 relies on its armor rather than shotra which failed in several videos. Modular design would be better which can also be used to upgrade older Pakistani Al Khalid tanks in our inventory. We need something similar to Arena APs or Trophy active defense add ons with stealth features on Haider MBT.

Secondly, reactive armor should be an area of concern on AK. There are reactive armor types like non explosive reactive armor that can withstand tandem charge double warhead atgms since the first charge fails to detonate any explosive in armor. NERA and NxRA are also lighter than ERA. A combination of both can be used. From frontal aspect there is more armor and ERA would increase the defense against other tanks rounds like sabot or heat. You can also see atgm coming from front more easily apply generate fog and other measures. From side aspects where there is less armor layers of NERA and NxRA can be applied on top of the main armor to withstand rpg and atgm rounds from sides or back.

Thirdly, the crew training equipment needs an update.It is the heart of the system. A crew with high situational awareness can for example detect and evade an atgm attack by maneuver and fog generation etc without active defense or armor coming into scene. It is not a jeep with a cannon. Just like pilots there should be simulators to train the crew against all types of odds such as atgm ambush. mine fields. outnumbered tank warfare. enemy air support etc. The crew should be trained effectively and quickly to take the most appropriate action under those conditions.
 
For the first time in history of Pak serious effort has been put into to play by HIT to built an engine in house. R&D for the project has already begun.
It will take us a while to achieve our goal but once done it will be the ans to many a ills plaguing our defence industry specially the mechanised branch.
 
What I think Pakistan should text Type 99 A2 and OPLOT M and T-90 in this November and select one of them and change few things according to our needs
 
Pakistani terrain need light combat tank. Otherwise lots of heavyweight tanks in the market.
 

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