GOOD NEWS FOR INDIA: ISRAEL EASES UAV EXPORT RESTRICTIONS

[Crixus]

Companies like Tonbo , MKU and Bharat Forge will change the face Indian tech Industry once the org like DRDO will start facing the heat they will start giving results too example when private banks start operations in India after that services of govt banks had also improved exponentially.

IAI took years of pain and grit to research and innovate.
What the fck are BEL/HAL/ADA etc doing?

OFB's board had been warming their @$$e$ on Bofors TOT given to them almost 30 years ago, only to come up with Dhanush now (after Manohar Parikkar has been jumping on their heads for 2 years) when the Indian Army has been crying for SPGs for all this time.

Before telling off a reliable friend, our own USELESS DPSUs should actually buckle up and get their act together. The only way to enforce that they start increasing production rates and start actually using that money for R&D would be to make them go public on BSE and NSE in terms of share capital.

We have been tolerating their lethargic progress for over 60 years.

Countries with 0 resources have raced past us and we are still importing some of the very basic defence products. It is nothing less than a disgrace for a country the size of India that we are actually dependent on countries that even have to import the raw materials for making advanced tech military grade weapons.

Here is a sample of what our DPSUs do with public funds:

With due respect to all my Hindu brothers and sisters, the money that DRDO is supposed to use is to make weapons, not on matters related to culture or worship.

I was appalled to see this when it was released the first time. Why does a DPSU make a chariot of silver? Is it going to save us from the enemy's weapons?

The only option is to make all of DPSUs public in terms of capital shareholding. Put them on BSE and NSE. And then see how we get quality weapons in time.

Oh and also force the corrupt top brass of the military to accept proven quality weapons.

 

[wiseone2]

Exactly.

Putting them on national stock exchange and making them public is the only way.

UAV is a suitable candidate for private firms

 

[Tshering22]

Companies like Tonbo , MKU and Bharat Forge will change the face Indian tech Industry once the org like DRDO will start facing the heat they will start giving results too example when private banks start operations in India after that services of govt banks had also improved exponentially.

These companies are already here but they are not at the forefront. Even some US military divisions order from here as a part of outsourcing and defence cooperation but our own corrupt top brass prefer importing.

Top level corruption is another problem for indigenisation.

 

[c-dome1]

all the smart people leaving to usa and other countries where good salaries

 

[Crixus]

Rightly said when a foreign rifle costs 50 times more then a local made then the cuts are very high for everyone ..now I think govt is more interested in increasing the share of local companies ...hope we will not see those politicians again in national scene again.

These companies are already here but they are not at the forefront. Even some US military divisions order from here as a part of outsourcing and defence cooperation but our own corrupt top brass prefer importing.

Top level corruption is another problem for indigenisation.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

IAI took years of pain and grit to research and innovate.
What the fck are BEL/HAL/ADA etc doing?

OFB's board had been warming their @$$e$ on Bofors TOT given to them almost 30 years ago, only to come up with Dhanush now (after Manohar Parikkar has been jumping on their heads for 2 years) when the Indian Army has been crying for SPGs for all this time.

Before telling off a reliable friend, our own USELESS DPSUs should actually buckle up and get their act together. The only way to enforce that they start increasing production rates and start actually using that money for R&D would be to make them go public on BSE and NSE in terms of share capital.

We have been tolerating their lethargic progress for over 60 years.

India have tolerating what, it's own doing? Why should they buckle up? India tolerates their retarded behavior, why should they? There's never been a fire under their ***.

What do you possibly expect when you have one DPSUs per speciality(defence aerospace, electronics, small arms to f'n tanks, etc.) and R&D agency without any competition whatsoever? The OFBs, etc. could live off contracts from the GoI. Several of their factories are booked, one of their factories booked to fucking 2030! This isnt because they've won through merit, but this is how India has set up it's defence sector since independence. They just wait for the next contact. This is all India's own fault why they operate the way they do. Did you see Hindustan Motors changing for the better?

Some of the users arent any better. You have extremely competent companies like Tonbo, MKU, etc. still getting most of their income from outside India. Why the **** are they importing jackets, thermal imagers, etc. when NATO users are sourcing from Tonbo, MKU? India's retarded policy of trusting foreign private firms, but not it's own is beyond dim witted.

The GoI recently let OFB get the BMP2 upgrade without ANY competition. They also gave OFB a automatic slot for the FICV program, when several private firms were starving and fighting for these programs. If OFB needs to die like Hindustan Motors, let it. It will be natural, survival of the fittest death, and make no mistake, the L&Ts, TATAs, Mahindras, Reliances, Bharat Forges, etc, etc, etc. will produce that death.

As far as DRDO, ask Tonbo Imaging, TATA Motors, L&Ts, Mahindras, etc, etc, etc. if DRDO has a role in the defence sector, they'll all say yes.

The PPP between DRDO and private sector has it's place, ATAGs and Kestrel are only the beginning, bigger things are going to happen. But yes, they need to close useless labs, get drop kicked for any redundant programs.


Thankfully, defence, aero sector is opening up. More contracts being given to the private sector. License being given. Finally small arms, ammo can be produced by them, etc. Things need to quicken still.

 

[anniyan]

Great going India

 

[Tshering22]

India have tolerating what, it's own doing? Why should they buckle up? India tolerates their retarded behavior, why should they? There's never been a fire under their ***.

Israel has been never under fire? What are you talking about?

They are in 10 times more pressure than we have ever been. Zero natural resources, no fuel, limited land for farming and almost arid, useless land beyond a certain point. From 1940s, they have transformed that semi-arid strip of land into a powerhouse of innovation, finished products and high technology.

What do you possibly expect when you have one DPSUs per speciality(defence aerospace, electronics, small arms to f'n tanks, etc.) and R&D agency without any competition whatsoever? The OFBs, etc. could live off contracts from the GoI. Several of their factories are booked, one of their factories booked to fucking 2030! This isnt because they've won through merit, but this is how India has set up it's defence sector since independence. They just wait for the next contact. This is all India's own fault why they operate the way they do. Did you see Hindustan Motors changing for the better?

IAI and IMI are also the only aerospace companies that initially started operating in Israel. And they always made sure that they had the best products because their country was in danger. Tell me, with an unstable western neighbour and a much more powerful nuclear power on the east, do you not think that we are in danger?

Monopoly is not an excuse to not perform. Especially when we have had no options.

The biggest problem with defence firms in India is that they are treated just like a municipal corporation. There has to be a change to that. Defence firms need to have the same ruthless vetting that goes in elite agencies like ISRO. Also, MOD should be directly under the PM like ISRO and field level officers should be appointed to run it - Meaning officers the rank of Major/Captain/Wing Commander etc rather than the top generals who are hand in glove with the lobbying firms.

Some of the users arent any better. You have extremely competent companies like Tonbo, MKU, etc. still getting most of their income from outside India. Why the **** are they importing jackets, thermal imagers, etc. when NATO users are sourcing from Tonbo, MKU? India's retarded policy of trusting foreign private firms, but not it's own is beyond dim witted.

I agree.

But the problem is two sided here. When Indian products are good, corrupt generals reject them citing non-performance and MOD buys it. But when MOD wants it, they shove it down the throats of our military. Both these sides have one thing in common - bloody personal ego of the guy heading it. Rather than common rational facts that determine the induction or rejection of a weapons platform.

The GoI recently let OFB get the BMP2 upgrade without ANY competition. They also gave OFB a automatic slot for the FICV program, when several private firms were starving and fighting for these programs. If OFB needs to die like Hindustan Motors, let it. It will be natural, survival of the fittest death, and make no mistake, the L&Ts, TATAs, Mahindras, Reliances, Bharat Forges, etc, etc, etc. will produce that death.

As far as DRDO, ask Tonbo Imaging, TATA Motors, L&Ts, Mahindras, etc, etc, etc. if DRDO has a role in the defence sector, they'll all say yes.

The PPP between DRDO and private sector has it's place, ATAGs and Kestrel are only the beginning, bigger things are going to happen. But yes, they need to close useless labs, get drop kicked for any redundant programs.


Thankfully, defence, aero sector is opening up. More contracts being given to the private sector. License being given. Finally small arms, ammo can be produced by them, etc. Things need to quicken still.

There has to be a constitutional ban on outright purchase of weapons unless in a war.

Unless that happens and a 'Guaranteed job' clause continues to be applicable to defence firms, nothing will change.

all the smart people leaving to usa and other countries where good salaries

That is part of the problems.

The government structure in India is largely to be blamed for it. Despite such an aggressive push by PM Modi on involving private conglomerates in defence sector, the progress is so slow.

Imagine what it would have been a couple of years back when we had the old form of government. In short, it was miserable.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Israel has been never under fire? What are you talking about?

The DPSUs like OFB never had a fire under their ***, what are you talking about? When did that whole statement have to do with Israel? They continue to miss production targets yearly, continue to produce poor ammo, they still get big contracts regardless.

IAI and IMI are also the only aerospace companies that initially started operating in Israel. And they always made sure that they had the best products because their country was in danger. Tell me, with an unstable western neighbour and a much more powerful nuclear power on the east, do you not think that we are in danger?

Monopoly is not an excuse to not perform. Especially when we have had no options.

Great, so are Chinese companies. I am NOT going to wait for OFBs, etc. get their shit together anymore. How long do you want to wait for them? Is 60 some years enough?

India nurtured this behavior out of it's DPSU, I never said other wise. I get it. The user is looking one way, R&D wing the other, production agency(DPSU) sit around, there is no synergy between these all parties. It's the boots on the ground that get fucked.

Monopoly is no excuse, but they all know they're the only ones doing what they do. So they can continue to produce junk, miss goals, etc. GoI hasnt cared for the last 60+ years. Good luck trying to change their generational habit and then waiting for results(if any), I rather see them open to competition and face death like Hindustan Motors. If you want to restructure the OFB, etc. try to make them efficient, great, but not at the expense of the private sector that crave to get into this sector. Not any more, some of them have taken risks without any guarantee..

Have fun waiting for Hindustan, Premier Motors to get it's shit together for India's auto industry, have fun with more of this ---

Instead of this -

This is another nurtured habit by India that caused it's death.

The better products will come out of competition among industrialist within India. They will find the brightest, future tanks designers, small arms designers, helicopter designers, what have you, and keep them within India, good luck trying to wait for OFB to change their culture, didnt work with Hindustan Motors.

Bharat Forge has already bought out whole artillery manufacturing line brought it to India, designs for artillery systems, etc. without any guarantee from the gov. TATA Motors have already submitted designs for FRCV, FICV, etc. TATA Motors and Bharat Forge have prototyped artillery systems and APCs with DRDO AHEAD of schedule. This is the behavior, risk that should be rewarded, this is all without serious government hand holding either.