germany delivers new high tech submarine to Israel...and Iran pays for it

[MarkusS]

More than silly.

I see it that way. Our economy bases on exploition of the poor. Many live like slaves. Just look at the working conditions in Bangladesh, China and so on. And Bread and Games work till today.

 

[As is - where is]

Not really, as most Greeks, Italians, people from the Balkans and in general Southern Europeans share haplogroups with people in the Arab world/Middle East. In fact your most common haplogroups are also the most common in the Arab world/Middle East.


Genetic origins of the Italian people - Eupedia.

From this link of yours:

The Bronze Age was brought to Europe by the Proto-Indo-Europeans, who migrated from the North Caucasus and the Pontic Steppe to the Balkans (from circa 6,000 years ago), then went up the Danube and invaded Central and Western Europe (from 4,500 years ago). Italic-speakers, an Indo-European branch, are thought to have crossed the Alps and invaded the Italian peninsula around 3,200 years ago, establishing the Villanova culture and bringing with them primarily R1b-U152 lineages and replacing or displacing a large part of the indigenous people. The Neolithic inhabitants of Italy sought refuge in the Apennine mountains and in Sardinia. Nowadays, the highest concentration of haplogroup G2a and J1 outside the Middle East are found in the Apennines, Calabria, Sicily and Sardinia.

Now look at the current statistics from the chart in your link. The most widely spread haplogroup among the Italian people is the R1b. Take Marche for example. 34% R1b (Indo-European) and only 24.5% J2 (Middle Eastern) and 13% E1b1b (African).
I understand that you're saying that Southern Europeans are more closely related to Middle Eastern people than the rest of Europe but their main origin comes from the North due to the Proto-Indo-European migration.

Here you can see the Y-DNA of average Greeks:

Family Tree DNA - Greek DNA Project

Most belong to Middle Eastern haplogroups such as J, E, G and I.

Only J has to do with the Middle East. E comes from East Africa, G comes from Caucasus and I comes from Europe.

Look at Wikipedia's list: Y-DNA haplogroups in European populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When it talks about Greece the first study finds 20.8% for the African E1b1b, 19.5% European I-M170 and 16.9% for the Middle Eastern J-P209.

You can also look at this map:

 

[MOHSENAM]

I see it that way. Our economy bases on exploition of the poor. Many live like slaves. Just look at the working conditions in Bangladesh, China and so on. And Bread and Games work till today.

Well, Many Italian were slave of Greeks and Roman empire.

 

[MarkusS]

Well, Many Italian were slave of Greeks and Roman empire.

wrong, as italian you was a roman citizen and free per se.

 

[al-Hasani]

@As is - where is

I posted the wrong link that you quote from as this link is just written by a user on Eupedia. You should rather look at the Y-DNA I posted of ordinary Greeks.

Family Tree DNA - Greek DNA Project

Those are ordinary people and you have their names,

Did I wrote the Middle East? I meant the Arab world.

Haplogroup R1b has nothing to do with nomads from the steppes and deserts of Central Asia arriving into Europe. The Basques whose language is not related to any other language out there are the oldest European people (native) and they almost entirely belong to the R1b Y-DNA haplogroup.

Likewise you have people from West Africa belonging to the R1b who obviously have nothing to do with those nomads either.

The majority of Greeks and Italians belong to the J, E and G haplogroups compared to the R1b haplogroup (which is a haplogroup with a very old presence in Europe) overall. That's the point.

The origin of the G haplogroup is not known with certainty but in any case Caucasus is often included as being a part of the Middle East. Others say it originated in Anatolia which is the Middle East.

For example the House of Capetian (most famous European royal family) belongs to the G haplogroup.

Lastly the indigenous I haplogroup in Europe (most common in Scandinavia, Balkans and also common in Southern Europe) is a descendent of the J haplogroup.

Your last "map" is actually useless as it only shows areas divided into the most common Y-DNA haplogroup and not the percentages or all the other haplogroups out there.

Lastly I was refering to overall DNA/ancestry as well. Y-DNA only shows your ancestry from father to son. Europeans and people from the Middle East are most closely related excluding their own peoples.

Anyway genetics are a very interesting thing and a lot of new information is showing up each year. I try to keep a track of it as best as I can.

 

[As is - where is]

There were ~5 million slaves in the Roman empire. That's 10-15% of the empire's population.

 

[INDIC]

I see it that way. Our economy bases on exploition of the poor. Many live like slaves. Just look at the working conditions in Bangladesh, China and so on. And Bread and Games work till today.

You are faking it, many westerners keep resentment that their jobs are moving to East. You also have to take purchasing power parity in your mind. In Asia, the one who earns less also need to spend less compared to Europeans.

 

[al-Hasani]

@As is - where is

Mate, can you tell me why Kalamata olives are such amazing olives?! Especially the green ones. I think that I have become addicted.

They are as good if not better than Levantine olives.

You are probably the first Greek person on PDF. Have you already fought with the Turks here?

I see it that way. Our economy bases on exploition of the poor. Many live like slaves. Just look at the working conditions in Bangladesh, China and so on. And Bread and Games work till today.

Markus, you know just as well as me that most Western Europeans are your ordinary workers too. Let alone Eastern Europeans. It's only a small elite that really is able to exploit others.

Of course those ordinary "Western Europeans" are living much better life's than for instance your average Indian etc. as you used them as your example. But that's another discussion altogether.

Most Europeans are wage slaves too and heavily indebted.

A small elite is controlling most of the land, resources etc. in Europe and everywhere else. This has always been the case.

 

[As is - where is]

Haplogroup R1b has nothing to do with nomads from the steppes and deserts of Central Asia arriving into Europe. The Basques whose language is not related to any other language out there are the oldest European people (native) and they almost entirely belong to the R1b Y-DNA haplogroup.

The majority of Greeks and Italians belong to the J, E and G haplogroups compared to the R1b haplogroup (which is a haplogroup with a very old presence in Europe) overall. That's the point.

I see. But they should have some connection with Central Asia. Don't they? I mean, how did they come to Europe in the first place?

@As is - where is

Mate, can you tell me why Kalamata olives are such amazing olives?! Especially the green ones. I think that I have become addicted.

They are as good if not better than Levantine olives.

You are probably the first Greek person on PDF. Have you already fought with the Turks here?

Haha, it's a secret.


And well, they have being pretty civilized so far so no fights yet. xD

 

[al-Hasani]

@As is - where is

You need to make a distinction between language and origin. Many mix those two up which is obviously wrong. It's a bit complicated and would require a long discussion and a lot of links that I will not bother you with on this thread.

Take your neighbors the Turks as an example out of dozens out there that I can quickly think about. Most of them are genetically native to the Middle East but the language they speak (Turkish) is from Central Asia.

Also you need to stop equating ethnic groups and haplogroups as all haplogroups out there PREDATE any ethnic group of today by mostly thousands of years.

Also relations among various regions, peoples etc. can be better observed when you look at the OVERALL DNA and not just Y-DNA (father from son - paternal lineages) as most tend to do. That's another discussion altogether as well.

 

[As is - where is]

@As is - where is

You need to make a distinction between language and origin. Many mix those two up which is obviously wrong. It's a bit complicated and would require a long discussion and a lot of links that I will not bother you with on this thread.

Take your neighbors the Turks as an example. Most of them are genetically native to the Middle East but the language they speak (Turkish) is from Central Asia.

Also you need to stop equating ethnic groups and haplogroups as all haplogroups out there PREDATE any ethnic group of today by mostly thousands of years.

Also relations among various regions, peoples etc. can be better observed when you look at the OVERALL DNA and not just Y-DNA (father from son - paternal lineages) as most tend to do. That's another discussion altogether as well.

I see. It's pretty complicated. And I thought that they were genetically from Central Asia as well. ._.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

For the love of the Lord, remove that photo dude,
I almost vomited on my laptop.

Its not nice to make fun of someone look no matter how stupid or illogical he may seem to you

 

[al-Hasani]

I see. It's pretty complicated. And I thought that they were genetically from Central Asia as well. ._.

Some are but only a minority. At least when it comes to Y-DNA. As you can see those are controversial topics. In any case DNA has nothing to do with culture, language, traditions etc. People adopted various customs and influenced each other. This was always the case.

At the end of the day we are all related and share the same origin. Whether in religious scriptures or actual science.

That does not change the fact that history etc. is interesting and genetics can serve as a tool to explain history better which is why I am interested in it.

Anyway can you recommend some Greek cheeses and dairy products OTHER than feta that most of us know?

May I ask where you are from in Greece?

We are not created from chimpanzee. we are created from Adam, Eve and then other Prophets. So in Islamic thought such as these debates about DNA is false.

Excuse me but what is wrong with talking about genetics? How does genetics collide with Islamic theory? Just like in Islam then there exists different people, languages etc. but all of us have the same origin. Same in genetics. You have various haplogorups but all of them are related.

This is a very interesting field. People who know nothing about it might not think so though which is their own business. This topic has already been derailed 5-6 pages ago so I see no problem in actually having an interesting discussion or correcting historical nonsense.

 

[MOHSENAM]

We are not created from chimpanzees. we are created from Adam, Eve and then other Prophets. So in Islamic thought such as these debates about DNA is false.

 

[New]

Its not nice to make fun of someone look no matter how stupid or illogical he may seem to you

That's right bro, you are absolutely right.
But as he is a minor, I felt the responsibility of teaching him, how mocking others feel.
I hope him, not to take it personal, and learn the lesson.