Future Pakistan-Turkish defense cooperation likely to be incremental, for now

[rcrmj]

And those countries have you refer has capability to build 5th/6th gen jets alone without any help from USA because they also have research/industrial base, as for turkey their 5th gen jet will not come after 2030 @rcrmj

more amature's talk````every line or shape of an areo plane is not a random drawing from "a designer" but backed by books and books of careful calculations```

maybe those countries "can do" the calculations, as you only need a computer and suitable software, but the question is where do all of those original data come from?```the answer is thousands after thousands of wind tunnel tests and experiments to just collect raw data!````so this leads to the question of who has the most thorough data of various areodynamic frames? ``` and answer is Russia, U.S and China````

Here we are talking about stealth outfit, so the previous data might not be suitable for it, so you need to work on new sets of data that can deflect radar signal at meantime has to be areodynamic friendly too!````again, who has the most thorogh data of these? ```the answer is U.S and China``````

now, you tell me, you'd really suggest those countries to spend billions after billions to build various sizes of wind tunnel, and to do deceds long of ground research before to even work out a suitable stealth outfit? c'mon`````thats why I said, to amatures, to design a fighter jet is no more complicated than drawing one on board, but the reality is far from where your knowledge can reach``!

when CAC was working on J-20 at early stage, they even paid some money to Russian areo institution for double checking their calculations, I can tell you this much```````

so for those countries (leave Turkey), without U.S data support, they dont even know where to start with, not to mention more complicated issues when it comes to system integration and other bits and bots```````

 

[BHarwana]

It's not as simple as u think. The compatibility and integration especially for modern combat radar and datalink.

Turkey better hands off JF-17. Without consent or agreement from either party.. No one is going to do anything.

In ideas 2018 Turkey was given consent from Pakistan and China to develop systems for Azerbaijan purchase if you recall bro.

JF-17 we see multiple upgrades in coming times the idea of modular design makes it cost effective to upgrade and makes integration much easier that is JF-17 is the best jet available in it's class.

 

[Beast]

In ideas 2018 Turkey was given consent from Pakistan and China to develop systems for Azerbaijan purchase if you recall bro.

JF-17 we see multiple upgrades in coming times the idea of modular design makes it cost effective to upgrade and makes integration much easier that is JF-17 is the best jet available in it's class.

That consent is given before turkey pull the jack about uyghur issue with China.

Now is a different cases.

 

[rcrmj]

i agree its close to impossible with this kind of economy and technology we have, China is moving ahead of western countries slowly we need twin engine craft j21 is not giving us freedom like we have in JF17.

China's strategy is: Pakistan is the most important strategic partner in that region, if not globaly, so that dicatates any Chinese defense institutions not to maximize profit on any weapons exported to Pakistan, as long as it wont created even more geopolitical troubles to either Pakistan and China````like HQ-9, J-16 and nu-clear weapons as such```

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

China has issues with turkey , as turkey is breaking silence on China’s Uyghurs. Uyghurs Muslims that created violence on street on Xinjiang , that resulted in many death, Turkey is supporting Uyghurs Muslim officially.

What abt the Kurdish muslims, suppressed by the Turks? This coin has 2 sides. Your country and your people before anyone else.

 

[Ultima Thule]

more amature's talk````every line or shape of an areo plane is not a random drawing from "a designer" but backed by books and books of careful calculations```

maybe those countries "can do" the calculations, as you only need a computer and suitable software, but the question is where do all of those original data come from?```the answer is thousands after thousands of wind tunnel tests and experiments to just collect raw data!````so this leads to the question of who has the most thorough data of various areodynamic frames? ``` and answer is Russia, U.S and China````

Here we are talking about stealth outfit, so the previous data might not be suitable for it, so you need to work on new sets of data that can deflect radar signal at meantime has to be areodynamic friendly too!````again, who has the most thorogh data of these? ```the answer is U.S and China``````

now, you tell me, you'd really suggest those countries to spend billions after billions to build various sizes of wind tunnel, and to do deceds long of ground research before to even work out a suitable stealth outfit? c'mon`````thats why I said, to amatures, to design a fighter jet is no more complicated than drawing one on board, but the reality is far from where your knowledge can reach``!

when CAC was working on J-20 at early stage, they even paid some money to Russian areo institution for double checking their calculations, I can tell you this much```````

so for those countries (leave Turkey), without U.S data support, they dont even know where to start with, not to mention more complicated issues when it comes to system integration and other bits and bots```````

And japan has these capabilities to build a stealth jet, and you're overestimating China most of the EU have those capability and remember they have experience to build fighter jet than China, China is just entered arena to build fighter jets from scratch, rest of your fighter jets were clones of Russia/Soviet union, J-5 (mig-15) J-6 (mig-19) J-7 (Mig-21) J-8 (modified J-7) A-5 (Modified Mig-19) J-11 (Su-27) J-16 (Su-30MK) etc etc @rcrmj

 

[rcrmj]

And japan has these capabilities to build a stealth jet, and you're overestimating China most of the EU have those capability and remember they have experience to build fighter jet than China, China is just entered arena to build fighter jets from scratch, rest of your fighter jets were clones of Russia/Soviet union, J-5 (mig-15) J-6 (mig-19) J-7 (Mig-21) J-8 (modified J-7) A-5 (Modified Mig-19) J-11 (Su-27) J-16 (Su-30MK) etc etc @rcrmj

you need basic knowledge to talk the stuff you want to talk, so far I can see nothing "knowledgeble" from you```and you are still suggesting those countries to collect those raw data from their own```lol````the distinct feature to tell whether the fan is a clueless amature or a real info digger is whether he/she talks much on appreance```period

 

[Ultima Thule]

you need basic knowledge to talk the stuff you want to talk, so far I can see nothing "knowledgeble" from you```and you are still suggesting those countries to collect those raw data from their own```lol````the distinct feature to tell whether the fan is a clueless amature or a real info digger is whether he/she talks much on appreance```period

And you have all knowledge, you're just troll and nothing else @rcrmj

you need basic knowledge to talk the stuff you want to talk, so far I can see nothing "knowledgeble" from you```and you are still suggesting those countries to collect those raw data from their own```lol````the distinct feature to tell whether the fan is a clueless amature or a real info digger is whether he/she talks much on appreance```period

France have the capability to collect raw data Building fighter jet before the world war 2 UK have same capability, Italy have same capability @rcrmj

 

[GeraltofRivia]

And japan has these capabilities to build a stealth jet, and you're overestimating China most of the EU have those capability and remember they have experience to build fighter jet than China, China is just entered arena to build fighter jets from scratch, rest of your fighter jets were clones of Russia/Soviet union, J-5 (mig-15) J-6 (mig-19) J-7 (Mig-21) J-8 (modified J-7) A-5 (Modified Mig-19) J-11 (Su-27) J-16 (Su-30MK) etc etc @rcrmj

Japan is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world and what they have put together was this. In no mean I am mocking their work but to show how difficult it is to make a 5th gen plane. Nevertheless after years of work Japanese have managed to put together a working prototype which is miles and miles better than the PPT fighters and plastic models we saw in the Airshow.

What @rcrmj has said may sound harsh but this is just a reality that making next generation fighter from the stretch needs tons of investment and a massive aerospace industry base. We are talking about money at the order of tens and hundreds Billions. F35 program spends more than 500 billions (considering the fact that it actually 3 planes). Any countries that are inspired to take this on need to prepare to spend as much if not more (why would anyone be able to spend less than the US given they has so much know-how already).

 

[GriffinsRule]

Japan is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world and what they have put together was this. In no mean I am mocking their work but to show how difficult it is to make a 5th gen plane. Nevertheless after years of work Japanese have managed to put together a working prototype which is miles and miles better than the PPT fighters and plastic models we saw in the Airshow.

View attachment 545748

What @rcrmj has said may sound harsh but this is just a reality that making next generation fighter from the stretch needs tons of investment and a massive aerospace industry base. We are talking about money at the order of tens and hundreds Billions. F35 program spends more than 500 billions and it is considered as a “budget” version. Any countries that are inspired to take this on need to prepare to spend as much if not more (why would anyone be able to spend less than the US given they has so much know-how already).

Its a technology demonstrator. Does not indicate their capability. Stop puffing your chest, its getting old.

 

[Enigma SIG]

What about consulting with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries on a new dual engine fighter design? It's a long shot but nothing wrong in trying.

View attachment 545747

Why does every other stealth fighter look like the F-22?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Japan is one of the most technologically advanced country in the world and what they have put together was this. In no mean I am mocking their work but to show how difficult it is to make a 5th gen plane. Nevertheless after years of work Japanese have managed to put together a working prototype which is miles and miles better than the PPT fighters and plastic models we saw in the Airshow.

View attachment 545748

What @rcrmj has said may sound harsh but this is just a reality that making next generation fighter from the stretch needs tons of investment and a massive aerospace industry base. We are talking about money at the order of tens and hundreds Billions. F35 program spends more than 500 billions and it is considered as a “budget” version. Any countries that are inspired to take this on need to prepare to spend as much if not more (why would anyone be able to spend less than the US given they has so much know-how already).

But @rcrmj was talking of collecting of raw data, He claims that only two countries have this capability to do this, USA/China than i would like to disagree with @rcrmj on this Japanese show this capability to do this and economic it other matter as for EU they are developing 6th gen jet for JV to reduce cost of the program, just like they did for EF-2000 Project @GreraltofRivia

 

[maximuswarrior]

What we require right now is to have JF-17 more capable with a better engine, composites, Full fly by wire, AESA radar, IRST, and longer range BVR to match the ranges of the radar.

This is exactly where the money ought to go. We also need to focus on strengthening the economy.

Realistically only China can provide Pakistan with a true 5th gen capability. As a Chinese member said, starting a 5th gen project from scratch is no joke and only two nations have actually fielded such fighters. We are in no hurry. China will take care of this problem.

 

[khansaheeb]

Why does every other stealth fighter look like the F-22?

Look at the other beauties:-

 

[Deino]

Sorry, but this report is just pure speculation and is IMO completely unlikely.

Turkey has its own project in the making - IMO a design so much overambitious that it will fail - and otherwise no capacity nor capability to develop yet another new single-engined Block 4 type. Even more Turkey will never ever use it for their own AF and most of all Pakistan too has its own plans and projects and is anyway more realitsic to co-develop with CHina.

Deino