French Avionics for JF-17

[Kharian_Beast]

dun b so passimistic stop acting lyk this ,no one knows the inside reality u cant make ur own arguments without seeing and analyzing the real stroy

You're right. I should just cheer the PAF on, applaud at everything they do. When sh** hits the fan we'll see who was right.

 

[Mani2020]

You're right. I should just cheer the PAF on, applaud at everything they do. When sh** hits the fan we'll see who was right.

why dun u concern some Paf official he is the only one who can clear u the facts and figures and make u understand the logic behind the jf-17 lol coz no one other than Paf official can make u satisfy

 

[TaimiKhan]

I request if any of PAF ex or current pilot is here or any personnel related to PAF directly or indirectly who knows the capability of Jf-17 can throw some light here,to remove the conflict going on here

The previous pages are full of comments about the JF-17 capability and performance, as per inside information available from the PAF guys.

Said it before, but for you will say again, the F-16s fighter pilots transferred from F-16s to the JF-17 program when asked on voluntary basis to come back to the F-16 program, refused. And the refusal was based on the overall better, superior performance of the JF-17s over the F-16s we have.

Another member nabil05, also gave an account of how JF-17 beat the current PAF F-16 in a training dog fight, which i got confirmed from my pilot friend, and this happened not on one time, rather multiple times it beat the F-16.

The pilot's cockpit workload in JF-17 is much less compared to our current F-16s. And its radar is also better then our current F-16 radar.

Plus, many other things, which are to be mentioned and can be read in the previous posts in the thread.


Problem is, some people can't see or understand the constraints which were there and still are regarding the decision for going after JF-17. Just to mention few:

1. Price: Hell of a difference between 20M & 40M price tag between JF-17 & J-10

2. We need to replace the hundreds of near obsolete decades old aircraft, with something much better, which JF-17 fulfills way better then expected.

3. Engine issue, as we with difficulty got the RD-93s, getting the AL series would have been one hell of a task.

4. JF-17 is not going to be our front line aircraft, so no need to get frowns about it. If it had been our front line aircraft, then the concerns being shown are justified.

5. Great export potential of this aircraft, if exported as per the projections, it will give us good amount of money, which can be used to procure front line and better aircraft. And also utilized for R&D for further better variants & other equipment.

Many other plus points, but the one major point I see is the great potential for future upgrades, improvement and betterment in the aircraft and especially its design.

Simply to be put, what a task can be performed by a 20M plane, why use a 40M plane. By looking at our airspace and the location of the airbases facing our adversary, JF-17 becomes the perfect plane for defending the Pakistani airspace and the combination of J-10s and F-16s will give it a offensive punch also.

Do remember India is working on a SAM network, which won't give us much room for deep strike missions. Thus, PAF's major role would be to defend first, its airspace and its ground forces, and do offensive with PGMs mostly.

 

[sancho]

Hi,

In defence procurement you rely on the weaponery that has a proven track record over a period of years. For that reason you will see that the electronics etc on a war plane are aboute 3---5 years old---why so---because of testing---. Similiarly JF 17 will go through a lots of growing and integration pains---.

M2k-9 is already a seasoned platform---secondly this plane is in league with the Blk 52---similiar size and similiar weapons load and elctronic package---.

I know that even with those French package JF won't get the load of Mirage 2K, of F16, but this will only be a problem in the A2G role. With the same weapons and electronics JF 17 with be on par in A2A and as you said these weapons and techs are proven now, so the only part that needs further test is the plattform itself with the engine.
Just guessing - a JF17 with same radar and avionics of those Mirage would cost maybe $25 - 30 millions right? What would those M2Ks cost with only some slight advantages in A2G?

PakFa is in flight---but what the russian bear shows and delivers are two different things---it may have a structurally similiar plane as compared to F 22---but it will be lagging behind in core technologies for a while---till the russians come up with something. Looking at previous examples of russian aircraft---this plane would take about ten years to start to get into production for the russian air force if things go smoothly.

Russia wants to put its airforce on a different pleateau---to put its navy on a different footings, it has asked the help of france---it will be interesting to see where they go with pakfa.

I find it too early to speculate about Pak Fa vs F22... only by judging the look of the first prototype, however I can't agree that it laggin behind in the core techs. We know that the first versions of the new engines already provide SC capabilities (in Su 35 and T50 as Russian news reports), we know that the Irbis PESA radar in Su 35 is one of the best radars at the moment and an inproved AESA version of it will be available for Pak Fa. Russia uses IRST since decades in the Flankers and especially when you fight a stealth fighter, this tech is way more important than the radar. F22 on the other side don't has IRST right?
If you sum this up, the there are already a good base of core techs, that will be improved for Pak Fa and FGFA.
Btw it has not asked France for help, it wants to purchase Mistral class LHD (I hope that is what you mean right?), because they don't have such vessels. Also it is likely that Pak Fa and FGFA will get French avionics again, similar to the package in MKI. There are some reports that there is a jv between Sukhoi and Thales in this field, which will make it even better.

But back to topic again!

 

[MZUBAIR]

I know that even with those French package JF won't get the load of Mirage 2K, of F16, but this will only be a problem in the A2G role. With the same weapons and electronics JF 17 with be on par in A2A and as you said these weapons and techs are proven now, so the only part that needs further test is the plattform itself with the engine.
Just guessing - a JF17 with same radar and avionics of those Mirage would cost maybe $25 - 30 millions right? What would those M2Ks cost with only some slight advantages in A2G?

No dear, Jf-17 with current config costs $15m-$17m, but now almost 70% avionics and 90% airframe developed localy, this surely decrease $4 to $5m from $17m.....engine,radar and other devices such as sensors etc r imported.

Now, when we will move to Block II with western avionics,radar engine etc....we would be surely capable to locally develop 100% airframe. Besides that we only need A2A avionics from west ...............keeping in mind we are locally producing very sophisticated A2G weapons including cruise missles. such as RAAD cruise missle,Precision-guided munition H-2 MUPSOW etc

 

[sancho]

No dear, Jf-17 with current config costs $15m-$17m, but now almost 70% avionics and 90% airframe developed localy, this surely decrease $4 to $5m from $17m.....engine,radar and other devices such as sensors etc r imported.

That means the first 50 with Chinese radar and avionics, but I meant the second batch, with French avionics! If the first one cost around $17 millions, my guess of $20 - 25 for the second one seems to be correct.

keeping in mind we are locally producing very sophisticated A2G weapons including cruise missles. such as RAAD cruise missle,

I know, one more reason why PAF don't need the Mirage 2Ks, not even for the strike role.

 

[Dazzler]

It gets a little annoying as some forum members turn every thread into a jf-17 thread and all of us begin discussing the same thing again and again. Just check different threads and you will understand what i mean. Please, go through the JF-17 thread if you want to know about its capabilities as it will not take too much of your time. For pessimists like Mr. Kharian Beast, no point to argue with a person who is stuck in one frame of mind. Even if we were getting Rafales, his mood would have remained the same!

 

[TaimiKhan]

All Members, it is requested to only discuss the topic on this thread, for any normal discussion related to JF-17, plz go to the proper JF-17 thread.

Keep the discussion to the French Avionics for JF-17.

Thx

 

[SBD-3]

You're right. I should just cheer the PAF on, applaud at everything they do. When sh** hits the fan we'll see who was right.

ok that seems fine then......go and arrange some 12 Billion USD ASAP....and when you have been able to do so.....we ll float RFP the same day...

 

[Kharian_Beast]

For pessimists like Mr. Kharian Beast, no point to argue with a person who is stuck in one frame of mind. Even if we were getting Rafales, his mood would have remained the same!

Look here Mr. thought police, father of the JF-17 rhetoric, master of the "I don't have any proof for my claims"...for you to question my love for PAF and make bold claims to protect this stupid kite that has become the pet project of certain personalities, we'll see who will be having the last laugh when the country finds out what JF-17 truly becomes in the coming decade. If PAF had gone for Rafael instead you wouldn't see this scathing dose of reality from my end.

500 million went to R&D. Also doesn't include the other associated costs with FC-1 like assembly lines, importing Chinese materials, etc.
$20 million x 150 = $3 billion USD (without French package or further upgrades)


Some say as many as 250 JF-17 are to be ordered. 250 x$ 20 million = $5 billion USD

With upgrades and inflation might reach $8 billion USD in the end.


$8.5 Billion USD went to clear waste. This could have purchased around 100 Rafale with possibilities of building some at home. Further upgradation to upcoming engine and radar of Rafale could have been seamlessly integrated and represented true growth and maturity rather than paying billions of dollars now to get watered down Rafale avionics and equipment for JF-17. Oh and France would have had a hard time getting any orders from next door for MRCA.

I would take 100 Rafs over 250 FC-1 any day.

THIS

OR THIS??

 

[Dazzler]

Look here Mr. thought police, father of the JF-17 rhetoric, master of the "I don't have any proof for my claims"...for you to question my love for PAF and make bold claims to protect this stupid kite that has become the pet project of certain personalities, we'll see who will be having the last laugh when the country finds out what JF-17 truly becomes in the coming decade. If PAF had gone for Rafael instead you wouldn't see this scathing dose of reality from my end.

500 million went to R&D. Also doesn't include the other associated costs with FC-1 like assembly lines, importing Chinese materials, etc.
$20 million x 150 = $3 billion USD (without French package or further upgrades)

Some say as many as 250 JF-17 are to be ordered. 250 x$ 20 million = $5 billion USD

With upgrades and inflation might reach $8 billion USD in the end.


$8.5 Billion USD went to clear waste. This could have purchased around 100 Rafale with possibilities of building some at home. Further upgradation to upcoming engine and radar of Rafale could have been seamlessly integrated and represented true growth and maturity rather than paying billions of dollars now to get watered down Rafale avionics and equipment for JF-17. Oh and France would have had a hard time getting any orders from next door for MRCA.

I would take 100 Rafs over 250 FC-1 any day.

THIS

OR THIS??

My posts can be verified even by some members on this forum so no need to worry Mr. Pessimist. I do not need your approval as i only say what i know is authentic. It will be wise of you not to show your true thought caliber.

Thanks

 

[Kharian_Beast]

My posts can be verified even by some members on this forum so no need to worry Mr. Pessimist. I do not need your approval as i only say what i know is authentic. It will be wise of you not to show your true thought caliber.

Thanks

Yeah right, what you know isn't worth squat.

 

[Dazzler]

At least I know something and remain enlightened on developments in hand instead of resting in denial. Rafale was always out of reach so no wonder it was not considered. We are getting what is in our grasp.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

"In close combat the JF-17 excels at being truly agile and responsive to the pilot's commands."

..."But everything else is sh**"

This is not World War 2 where being a good dog fighter wins engagements.

No this is era to be a arms chair general!

 

[SEAL]

This article is written by Group Caption Khalid Mehmood.