France negotiate with India the sale of 50 more Rafal aircraft

[ShoutB]

nope f35 A version costs same as rafale,

you don't get TOT

 

[Sloth 22]

nope f35 A version costs same as rafale, latest batch is 90M$, add training logistics, it will cost same or even less, this is by looking at turkish and other countries deals
IAF simply rejected f35 when it was offered by LM, citing costs, than they realized that they cant buy 120 for 10b$
truth is rafale and typhoon lied, only gripen, mig35, f-16 were within the cost bracket of 10-12B$ for 120ACs

F35A has been offered , and the total package cost , similar to Rafale deal , was even higher than the offer from EF Consortium, and this is the reason for no F35A.

And then there were some strategic+political demands from India , which only France and Russia fulfilled.

 

[IblinI]

F35A has been offered , and the total package cost , similar to Rafale deal , was even higher than the offer from EF Consortium, and this is the reason for no F35A.

And then there were some strategic+political demands from India , which only France and Russia fulfilled.

Could you provide the link for this,since there are dozen of countries on the waiting list.

 

[Sloth 22]

i said, i dont know ... dont have the contract..i can be completely wrong on this account

but one thing is for sure, they will not be assembled in india and will be made in france from top to bottom

purely speculation...20% is easy, they are much simpler parts that france can outsource from india
the 30% means more money as they will milk india more as they go and produce more staff..its too vague

Rest assured, the reason for Rafale winning, even after the cancellation of MMRCA was that Dassault presented the most comprehensive and detailed plan which met our needs.

They burned midnight oil in numerous meetings explaining every thing.Working out every minute detail, discussing every single brick that would go into creation of infrastructure.

Others like LM , SAAB , etc took the easy way, paying media to promote their aircrafts, and showing their aircrafts low cost by hiding the operational costs.

More than Dassault winning,its LM and SAAB losing the contract.

Could you provide the link for this,since there are dozen of countries on the waiting list.

Link for cost ? No.

There are substantial articles about F35 being on offer , but no cost comparison.

I am deriving that the F35A offer was more costly , because in the CCS meet [High level meet in India to stamp all clear for a defence deal ] , defence minister of India, communicated to Prime Minister of India, that yes the package from Dassault is the most comprehensive and cost effective one.

 

[IblinI]

Rest assured, the reason for Rafale winning, even after the cancellation of MMRCA was that Dassault presented the most comprehensive and detailed plan which met our needs.

They burned midnight oil in numerous meetings explaining every thing.Working out every minute detail, discussing every single brick that would go into creation of infrastructure.

Others like LM , SAAB , etc took the easy way, paying media to promote their aircrafts, and showing their aircrafts low cost by hiding the operational costs.

More than Dassault winning,its LM and SAAB losing the contract.



Link for cost ? No.

There are substantial articles about F35 being on offer , but no cost comparison.

I am deriving that the F35A offer was more costly , because in the CCS meet [High level meet in India to stamp all clear for a defence deal ] , defence minister of India, communicated to Prime Minister of India, that yes the package from Dassault is the most comprehensive and cost effective one.

What i am trying to say is F35A will be only available to those countries in the project, and that would probably takes more than 10 years, So i wonder where does the source of this articles came from in the first place.

 

[C130]

Rafale is a competent machine, but can't field with 5th gen. Simple as it.


Everyone else doesn't include India.

I agree 1 on 1 Rafale can't compete against 5th gen, that's why I mention E-2D with it's anti-stealth radar.

even Russia is touting it's S-400 as a F-22/F-35/B-2 killer

apparently stealth has been cracked.

even without stealth I think J-20 is a very good dog fighter and has high kinetic properties.

 

[jaatki]

My source tells me. It'll be Migs which make up the IN's numbers. Rafale's will only be for IAF.
I/He could be thoroughly wrong though.I just stated what I gathered.

Air force officers get to biased when we talk about fighters, lol i have friends too, both in the navy and Air Force, and both are sure to get the bird in numbers.....Air Force officers dream about keeping all the assets and hate to share their fighters, but navy wants them for power projection, navy needs rafales in number cause 3 carrier navy would like to pack a punch on their AC's

 

[Sloth 22]

What i am trying to say is F35A will be only available to those countries in the project, and that would probably takes more than 10 years, So i wonder where does the source of this articles came from in the first place.

Accelerated deliveries , just like that of Rafale , to complete the deliveries within 72 months of the first tranche of payment.

But now the orders for all LRIP and first FRP is almost ready, means now the chances of F35A are even less than it was 3 years ago.

 

[GURU DUTT]

What I'm sure is 20 years later, your aviation industry will be still where you stand now. Credit to French! You neither give Tech transfer to India nor you held responsible for HAL producing Rafale, you are the man' India is bled white, its domestic aviation industry is dying. With only 1/5th size of China economy, India spends 20 billions in the Rafale procurement! Well done! I still remember some Indian members insisted that they won't buy any Rafale if France doesn't give TOT. Seems you don't have much choice. Make in India is just a hyperbole, it's assemblin in India.


At least you shall bring up some serious. For example, F35.

The job of dealing with Rafale will be left to J16d and j11b, J20 will concentrate on the east coast.

so now you will decide what we should get for our air force or navy .... Mr @wanglaokan sorry but we are not taking your tax payers money pr so called "SOFT LOANS" to buy weapons from you or third parties so thanks but no thanks hope you get my point sir

 

[Stephen Cohen]

so now you will decide what we should get for our air force or navy .... Mr @wanglaokan sorry but we are not taking your tax payers money pr so called "SOFT LOANS" to buy weapons from you or third parties so thanks but no thanks hope you get my point sir

What will happen to F 16 / Gripen deal ; will it happen or not

 

[GURU DUTT]

What will happen to F 16 / Gripen deal ; will it happen or not

thing is we will have close to 18X5 rafales and 18X12 TejasMK1A- & 18X5 MK2 & 18X12 F16 Blk70/72 and some 18X5 T50 single seat & 18X5 T-50 twin seat finally while there wont be any grippen as for AMCA MKI & Fukrums & M2k will be by AMCA as and when they start coming

 

[Sloth 22]

What will happen to F 16 / Gripen deal ; will it happen or not

If they pass the requirements of IAF, the minimum political requirements of India and are in justified cost , then yes.

[You see its better to have a 98 million USD Rafale than to have a 90million USD single engine fighter . The SE fighters need to cost less than 70 million USD ]

 

[GURU DUTT]

If they pass the requirements of IAF, the minimum political requirements of India and are in justified cost , then yes.

[You see its better to have a 98 million USD Rafale than to have a 90million USD single engine fighter . The SE fighters need to cost less than 70 million USD ]

BJP governmet will never ever go for Grippen after what they did to sabotage indian defence and national interests nor should any nationalists government ever should these pigs should never be allowed to even enter indian defence establishments they should be just thrown out

 

[Penguin]

The Rafale bought can only be used to showcase in front of Pakistan, it's a bulk of metal scrap in front of J20. Good for you!

J20
Production: 8 prototypes and 5 low rate initial production fighters
Unit cost US$110 million as of 2011

Rafale
Number built 157 (as of April 2017
Rafale B: €74M (flyaway cost, FY2013)
Rafale C: €68.8M (flyaway cost, FY2013)
Rafale M: €79M (flyaway cost, FY2011)

So, what J20s?

Besides:

In November, China debuted the Chengdu J-20, a large, stealthy jet that some have compared to the F-22 Raptor. But according to experts, the J-20 is not a fighter, not a dogfighter, not stealthy, and not at all like the F-22 or F-35.

Malcolm Davis, a senior analyst at the Australia Strategic Policy Institute, told Business Insider that the J-20 is a “fundamentally different sort of aircraft than the F-35.”

Davis characterized the J-20 as “high-speed, long-range, not quite as stealthy (as US fifth-gen aircraft), but [the Chinese] clearly don’t see that as important.” According to Davis, the J-20 is “not a fighter, but an interceptor and a strike aircraft” that doesn’t seek to contend with US jets in air-to-air battles.

Instead, “the Chinese are recognizing they can attack critical airborne support systems like AWACS (airborne early warning and control systems) and refueling planes so they can’t do their job,” Davis said.

“The J-20, in particular, is different than the F-22 in the context that, if you take a look and analyze the design, it may have some significant low-observable capabilities on the front end, but not all aspects – nor is it built as a dogfighter,” Deptula said. “But quite frankly, the biggest concern is its design to carry long-range weapons.”

What the J-20 lacks in stealth and dogfighting ability it makes up for by focusing on a single, comparatively soft type of target. Unlike the US, which has fielded extremely stealthy aircraft, China lacks the experience to create a plane that baffles radars from all angles.

Instead, the J-20’s design makes for a plane that’s somewhat stealthy from the front angle, as it uses its long range and long-range missiles to fly far out and hit tankers and radar planes that support platforms like the F-35 or F-22.

https://www.businessinsider.nl/the-...20-combat-jet-2017-1/?international=true&r=US

So, even if/when there, their role is not to engage Rafales.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

18X12 F16 Blk70/72

18 X 12 is a Big Number ; but what about Uncle Trump and his policies

Will we get a factory here