Forty Years of the Islamic Republic: What Next? - Prince Reza Pahlavi speaks

[Joe Shearer]

W.r.t : https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistani-nationalism-contradictions.589177/page-16#post-11077482

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan (I'm only bothering with this because we have had some pretty good conversations earlier)...I get the affinity you have for hakikat....but he is pushing clearly a very sectarian agenda. I mean only good iranians are the "secular" ones?...what happened to his "islamic faith is the ultimate thing" that he preaches in other certain subforums as some overriding raison d'etre used to diminish an entire nation as termites that crows laugh at?

All I was saying (in that thread that is now closed)....is he can choose to be any identity he wants to be (ironically not afforded the same to certain other nationalities here, but another subject not worth my time)....but he should stop being:

a) so repetitive and dull (in BD forum which you saying I now "agree with bengals" on just one thing)*
b) so inconsistent at fundamental level (and I am being polite here)

Of course maybe you can ask him what he means by "only good iranians are secular ones"? I think its pretty clear what he means between the lines there....but maybe I am wrong? You think @Tokhme khar just out of the blue mocks him to join some feelz chorus? Haki instigates a lot of stuff for no reason...bringing both crescent and star identities he feigns real life distance from (but some historical emotional proximity to) into open disrepute among members here...for not much reason at all (except whatever sectarian emotional vendetta).

*BTW I agree with "bengalis" on a whole lot more than just one thing... we are coming to agreements/compromises on many things down the road (and they actually surprised how much I was challenging earlier...for more debate sake than anything else). I cannot have (my previous) unfettered hostility to them that long, no one can....esp not with this forum not treating equivalent standards for all (Esp for my own). Its all fun and games to have me directed against BD ppl (simply because thats one of few places I can go all out for a debate) and expect me to ignore what rest of this forum is becoming. It saddens me this forum was once cut from a great cloth (from hushed voices senior members from that time still here talk here in certain corners)...but it has been so sullied now.

@Joe Shearer @Indus Pakistan @Mage @Al-Ansar @bluesky @jbgt90 @padamchen @UKBengali @Game.Invade @Hell hound @I.R.A @jamahir @Zibago

Um, why can't I tag @hellfire....what happened?

From the end of your post, backwards.

1. When out of my depth, or facing far superior presentations, I tend to default to a sequence of numbered items.
2. Please tag Vibrio instead.
   hellfire has professional and personal commitments and objectives that have increasingly taken up his available time. It was no longer possible for him to participate meaningfully on the Internet fora in which he had been active until yesterday. This is an inflection moment in his life, and, while I regret it personally, I support his decision to concentrate on his life-goals and withdraw from his existing membership of different fora.
3. Please tag jbgt90, who has, in spite of the increasingly pressing demands on his time, returned to the forum. As in the past, I suspect that we will see him in classic Laconian form - taciturn to a point.
4. When I joined, this forum was indeed at a level that I remember now with great respect. Some of the posts I have personally made, due to the nature of the searching enquiries that invoked them, were several pages long. They were in response to interlocution of a staggeringly high standard, at times approaching those of PakTeaHouse (those were legendary, at that time, and cannot be compared to other fora; more like the correspondence in The Economist, or the New Yorker, or some of the British conservative magazines whose level of discourse is so preposterously high. PDF touched peaks at times, and even though the general body of posts was at lower levels, these moments of sublime contentment were oxygen for the discerning participant).
5. I am glad that you have seen for yourself that Bengalis are susceptible to reason and logic, and that these overcome all other considerations but the bonds of our language. On that one point, I must beg to be excused; this is in this place personal, there is no mandate to speak for others, but for my part, the subject will not suffer to be a butt of jokes without serious consequences.
6. As for other subjects of discussion, your words speak for themselves. Your very strong challenges are remembered, but your increasing openness to modified views and positions, partly in response to your challenges, have apparently been noted and have been pleasing.
7. You have for this 'false flagger' that is the subject of your post the same contempt that has been the just desert of all false flaggers. It is well-deserved contempt. His supporters need to re-visit their positions.

 

[Nilgiri]

From the end of your post, backwards.

1. When out of my depth, or facing far superior presentations, I tend to default to a sequence of numbered items.
2. Please tag Vibrio instead.
   hellfire has professional and personal commitments and objectives that have increasingly taken up his available time. It was no longer possible for him to participate meaningfully on the Internet fora in which he had been active until yesterday. This is an inflection moment in his life, and, while I regret it personally, I support his decision to concentrate on his life-goals and withdraw from his existing membership of different fora.
3. Please tag jbgt90, who has, in spite of the increasingly pressing demands on his time, returned to the forum. As in the past, I suspect that we will see him in classic Laconian form - taciturn to a point.
4. When I joined, this forum was indeed at a level that I remember now with great respect. Some of the posts I have personally made, due to the nature of the searching enquiries that invoked them, were several pages long. They were in response to interlocution of a staggeringly high standard, at times approaching those of PakTeaHouse (those were legendary, at that time, and cannot be compared to other fora; more like the correspondence in The Economist, or the New Yorker, or some of the British conservative magazines whose level of discourse is so preposterously high. PDF touched peaks at times, and even though the general body of posts was at lower levels, these moments of sublime contentment were oxygen for the discerning participant).
5. I am glad that you have seen for yourself that Bengalis are susceptible to reason and logic, and that these overcome all other considerations but the bonds of our language. On that one point, I must beg to be excused; this is in this place personal, there is no mandate to speak for others, but for my part, the subject will not suffer to be a butt of jokes without serious consequences.
6. As for other subjects of discussion, your words speak for themselves. Your very strong challenges are remembered, but your increasing openness to modified views and positions, partly in response to your challenges, have apparently been noted and have been pleasing.
7. You have for this 'false flagger' that is the subject of your post the same contempt that has been the just desert of all false flaggers. It is well-deserved contempt. His supporters need to re-visit their positions.

Than you for this touching reply....I have saved it. Like I told doc and I.R.A, I only realise quite late sometimes (esp online) I simply have nowhere near the real-life experience of growing up in a totally different circumstance to the one I've had....and how mere words can cut so deep as result both ways....even if just to know more where it really matters for me (the mettle)...but that may not be whats important for the other.

I have this somewhat sociopath tendency that others perceive (I dont really care much how another may feel about something I am saying if I feel it to be what needs to be said, I simply wont hold back)...I developed it at early age for my own survival in a hostile, quite confronting environment (mocked, teased, beaten up for being different and thus I had to learn fast how to give it right back in spades)...it continues to linger past what I have since layered above it for real life. What to do, I should have known the how and why of it earlier...but I didnt get it...this is all quite new to me online. I'd like to tell that "me" 3 years ago or so....how it is now...it aint worth it etc etc but of course that guy is long gone, and now all thats left is what I have now and scars and possibilities of "what could have been" that haunt me...so I just tuck or cover those away hoping they wont be there later when I dare check again.

I sure wish I was around for that earlier time at this forum, that might have helped some,...well I suppose the list is long for earlier times I wish I was in....now I have to bring it up as a phantom of a memory of something I was not even there for...simply brought about what I am seeing here now. But your words (and a few others) confirm all I suspected deep down.

I totally get hellfire @Vibrio decision...I might need a bit of "real life pilgrimage" away from this place myself soon...other stuff starting to pile up a bit and needs more of my attention....and this place is starting to get stale on some underlying issues that keep surfacing and taking away ppl I learn from and feel had lot to contribute still...and worse...my friends. I have never been great at handling that kind of stuff either (a few good friends have always meant the world to me...I literally idolized the 3 musketeers story as a kid, probably more than anything else)...and the speed and frequency here of that is gaining not diminishing (sadly)....its still in the catch-22 zone for now for me....but maybe not that much longer... But I do still feel I have too much invested here and besides I'd like to see if it does become all it can be once again. I love redemption stories the best!

@M. Sarmad @VCheng @jbgt90 @Hell hound @The Sandman @Signalian @Zibago @waz @Desert Fox @Mage @Indus Pakistan @OsmanAli98 @Tps43 @Mentee

 

[scythian500]

The reason religion causes problem is the attitude that mine is more logical and superior than yours. And adding that nothing can be more superior and logical ever again. You talk about human brain evolution but Islam and all abrahamic religions does not accept evolution. You talk about logic but you accept faith which is devoid of logic and has just commands which you have to obey without thought . If you say that islam is part of iran then israel belongs to Jews right?. Just do not belittle others please.

Your logic is flawed and used on totally irrelevant examples.
First, A religion X is not a subjective concept that can not be compared. It can and some are more logical and superior than others.

Second, what I meant was how knowledge of human being evolved and grew. As a heavy and advanced religion like Islam could not be accepted by comparatively less sophisticated minds and knowledge of earlier civilizations. It was easier to explain how the planet Earth is not flat to the people of Arabia in 7th century than people of Ur in Abraham the prophet era. It was the human knowledge capacity which was developed through out time and therefore, they needed new prophets up until Muhammad time which the most sophisticated version of Islam introduced to human being.
Btw, https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selection-genes-wrong

Third, the way you talk about Islam and logic shows you have very little knowledge about major religions my friend. Actually, the biggest reason people convert to Islam in modern times is that there are lots of illogical thoughts and practices preached or mentioned in their texts (Christianity for example) and they clearly find the explanation and logic in Islam.

When we exclude some man-sourced observations and books later added to Islam (so called Sehah al Settah or Osoule Kafi , etc) we see Islam or at least based on my studies, the way Shia scholars conclude religious rules is very much based or accompanied by logic.

There is something about all divine religions, called Taslim or Islam or Submission. Means, religion is a frame work to present a relationship between the almighty creator and the earthly and non earthly creatures. The submission and obedience of the almighty creator is the nature of this special type of relationship. Human being can only question these divine orders only and only if or when he could stop his death first and before anything more complicated!!

You hide behind science to explain everything. While every student knows, science is in continuous change. Something proven scientifically a century ago could be absolutely wrong now. So something that proves its own conclusions wrong every day can not be the basis of your decision about something so huge as God, creation and religion.

And finally your argument about how if Iran is a Muslim nation then Israel also belongs to Jews!!! for real!!? pranking me?

 

[TruthHurtz]

Not gonna honor the murderer by naming him. But my neighbor that he murdered was named Ali Akbar Tabatabi.

I will

His name was Dawud Salahuddin, based black martyr

My neighbor was a peaceful man, not a violent one. He was killed for power, not justice. That's murder.

Killing is not the same thing as murder. Murder is a crime; killing may not be. The two are not interchangeable and those who do try to use them that way often have their own criminal agenda to divert attention away from.

I would say the same about any man, woman and child that Israel gunned down in name of the Jewish state.

Everyone can see that you're still engaged in diverting from the thread topic: the mullahs and the future of their regime.

Wow a jew lecturing us against diversion tactics, how ironic.

 

[padamchen]

Most invaders did something disgusting llime this. Islamic invaders did it in various places. Recently pol pot regime supported by China did it. The USA has a stellar record in killing populations. The Europeans did it in Africa and India and native America, australia etc.
So in they have no right to be disgusted at what was done centuries ago


**** off , Persians are as Indian as can be. If Iran calls itself Muslim after 1000 years of islam , Persians also have been In India for as much time so are gujjus in all the sense. Take your trash else where.
Who us the lady on your profile


The reason religion causes problem is the attitude that mine is more logical and superior than yours. And adding that nothing can be more superior and logical ever again. You talk about human brain evolution but Islam and all abrahamic religions does not accept evolution. You talk about logic but you accept faith which is devoid of logic and has just commands which you have to obey without thought . If you say that islam is part of iran then israel belongs to Jews right?. Just do not belittle others please.

@Śakra is a known Parsi hater. Hates on Iranians to maintain the equal opportunity flavor. She's not fooling me.

@scythian500 is a Muslim teaching a pureblood Zoroastrian about Zoroastrian history.

A Zoroastrian Athrvan no less. Direct descendants of the ancient Magii.

Did you see me even respond?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Tokhme khar]

he is irooni yahudia, but won't admit it here in public!..........

I will

His name was Dawud Salahuddin, based black martyr



I would say the same about any man, woman and child that Israel gunned down in name of the Jewish state.



Wow a jew lecturing us against diversion tactics, how ironic.

 

[TruthHurtz]

@Śakra is a known Parsi hater. Hates on Iranians to maintain the equal opportunity flavor. She's not fooling me.

@scythian500 is a Muslim teaching a pureblood Zoroastrian about Zoroastrian history.

A Zoroastrian Athrvan no less. Direct descendants of the ancient Magii.

Did you see me even respond?

Cheers, Doc

>Parsi's
>Pureblood

Just lol

 

[Nilgiri]

@Śakra is a known Parsi hater. Hates on Iranians to maintain the equal opportunity flavor. She's not fooling me.

@scythian500 is a Muslim teaching a pureblood Zoroastrian about Zoroastrian history.

A Zoroastrian Athrvan no less. Direct descendants of the ancient Magii.

Did you see me even respond?

Cheers, Doc

I have to read all that @I.R.A referred to and see why you call him "fundamentalist" in the end heh

>Parsi's
>Pureblood

Just lol

So whats your nationality mr zimbabwean in zimbabwe? Are those your flags? @waz

 

[padamchen]

he is irooni yahudia, but won't admit it here in public!..........

I've suspected the same from his nuances for a long time.

Part of the reason I look past the khacchar you, at the Zartosht within.

I like originals.

Robots and ordinary intellects speaking off of a script bore me.

Cheers, Doc

I have to read all that @I.R.A referred to and see why you call him "fundamentalist" in the end heh



So whats your nationality mr zimbabwean in zimbabwe? Are those your flags? @waz

He's the first honest devout Muslim I came across here.

Out of the blue.

No pretenses. Just strongly held positions.

Honor among blood foes.

I'll take that every day over games played by your own blood.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Tokhme khar]

50% of Israeli are middle eastern camel jockey........If you go to Israel you'll see them. All of them fall to our feet as soon as they see us! all you hear is

why don't you tell your akhoond to accept us. do something! save us please.....We are human beings too...we don't have a problem with Iran at all, we were friends and still are....

aaahahahahaaaaaa.....

I've suspected the same from his nuances for a long time.

Part of the reason I look past the khacchar you, at the Zartosht within.

I like originals.

Robots and ordinary intellects speaking off of a script bore me.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Śakra]

>Parsi's
>Pureblood

Just lol

It’s a zoro practice to marry their siblings so may be ””””pure””””.

In Zoroastrian Middle Persian (Pahlavi) texts, the term xwēdōdah (Av. xᵛaētuuadaθa) is said to refer to marital unions of father and daughter, mother and son, or brother and sister (next-of-kin or close-kin marriage, nuclear family incest), and to be one of the most pious actions possible. The models for these unions were found in the Zoroastrian cosmogony. The meaning and function of the Avestan term is not clear from the contexts.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/marriage-next-of-kin

 

[padamchen]

It’s a zoro practice to marry their siblings so may be ””””pure””””.

In Zoroastrian Middle Persian (Pahlavi) texts, the term xwēdōdah (Av. xᵛaētuuadaθa) is said to refer to marital unions of father and daughter, mother and son, or brother and sister (next-of-kin or close-kin marriage, nuclear family incest), and to be one of the most pious actions possible. The models for these unions were found in the Zoroastrian cosmogony. The meaning and function of the Avestan term is not clear from the contexts.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/marriage-next-of-kin

Kissing Cousins
May 26, 2010, 6:57 PM IST Bachi Karkaria in Erratica | India | TOI

Am I my brother’s sleeper? This question surfaces each time I dip into the now daily diet of gotra gruel – and leaves me gagging on it. My deep, dark non-secret is that I am married to my first cousin. Truth be told, nearly 40 years on, I still cringe to mention the relationship to non-Parsi friends. The reaction invariably is one of shocked horror. To them, it is nothing short of first-degree incest. ‘You are a Pharoah or what?’ is the kindest of the retorts. But, amidst my fellow Parsis, I can swan around like Cleopatra.

My conditioning makes the current gotra-shotra controversy quite incomprehensible. The khap panchayat is the polar opposite of my own Bombay Parsi Panchayat, which tends to lynch those who DON’T marry within the clan. However, to be fair, our urbane, tribal justice comes in less overtly violent forms than those in the boondocks of Haryana, etc. The BPP will not take the hatchet to the offenders; it will simply axe their application for housing in one of its coveted Trust properties. This, in Mumbai, is a fate worse than death.

Parsis don’t have to marry their cousins, but in a so tiny a community, avoiding blood ties is impossible, relatively speaking. The ex-gotrawallas point to the genetic diseases that result from inbreeding. But even if the insular KPs may never have heard of many of the communities which uphold consanguineous marriages, there is a striking similarity of afflictions. The leaders themselves suffer from blinding disorders, and they inflict breathing problems on their victims. The scourge of ‘honour killings’ spreads like leukaemia.

Ironically, the KPs and the BPP (along with some Muslim anjumans) pull in diametrically opposite directions to achieve the same goal: preservation of the community. The former fervently believe that marrying outside the clan is the sanctified path to viable survival, while the latter are as adamantly convinced that intermarriage will spell doom, destruction and the end of civilization aka Sunday dhansak. Both sides are as firmly in the right as clearly as they are in the wrong.

All cultures have rules of engagement — and marriage. In as ethnically atomised a country as ours, social norms cannot be expected to submit to a uniform logic. How can they, when even in a single locality, one man’s celebration is another man’s provocation, and the only thing in common is the resulting riot? So, the best way to preserve unity is to keep each group segregated in its own cultural ghettos and its own housing societies.

You may argue that you cannot equate who you can marry with what you can cook, but the cynic, or simply the realist, will point out that a goose is involved in both scenarios. Indeed, that bird is an even more apt analogy for the anointed custodians of each community repast — and its present and future as well.

Worse, as we keep finding out, these sanctimonious upholders of regressive conventions are not just village be-headmen, or some moss-covered relics who have rolled out of the Stoning Age. The Gotra Gestapo of all communities swaggers about in suits that cut as sharply as their diktats, and blinkers masquerade as fashionable shades. It’s perversely reassuring to know that it’s not only in my own BPP that the most communal directives are expressed in the most cosmopolitan accents. In the past fortnight, Naveen Jindal has confirmed, with steely determination, that youth, Ivy League education, yea, even Page Three status provide no immunity against primordial infections. Mullahs with MBA degrees, IIT terrorists — everyone’s keeping up with the times to push us further back in time.

........

Modern day sanctimoniousness aside, there is no ancient culture where incest was not common.

The Greeks

The Romans

The Hindus

The Chinese

The Persians

The Egyptians

They all did it.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Placemat]

Your logic is flawed and used on totally irrelevant examples.
First, A religion X is not a subjective concept that can not be compared. It can and some are more logical and superior than others.

Second, what I meant was how knowledge of human being evolved and grew. As a heavy and advanced religion like Islam could not be accepted by comparatively less sophisticated minds and knowledge of earlier civilizations. It was easier to explain how the planet Earth is not flat to the people of Arabia in 7th century than people of Ur in Abraham the prophet era. It was the human knowledge capacity which was developed through out time and therefore, they needed new prophets up until Muhammad time which the most sophisticated version of Islam introduced to human being.
Btw, https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selection-genes-wrong

Third, the way you talk about Islam and logic shows you have very little knowledge about major religions my friend. Actually, the biggest reason people convert to Islam in modern times is that there are lots of illogical thoughts and practices preached or mentioned in their texts (Christianity for example) and they clearly find the explanation and logic in Islam.

When we exclude some man-sourced observations and books later added to Islam (so called Sehah al Settah or Osoule Kafi , etc) we see Islam or at least based on my studies, the way Shia scholars conclude religious rules is very much based or accompanied by logic.

There is something about all divine religions, called Taslim or Islam or Submission. Means, religion is a frame work to present a relationship between the almighty creator and the earthly and non earthly creatures. The submission and obedience of the almighty creator is the nature of this special type of relationship. Human being can only question these divine orders only and only if or when he could stop his death first and before anything more complicated!!

You hide behind science to explain everything. While every student knows, science is in continuous change. Something proven scientifically a century ago could be absolutely wrong now. So something that proves its own conclusions wrong every day can not be the basis of your decision about something so huge as God, creation and religion.

And finally your argument about how if Iran is a Muslim nation then Israel also belongs to Jews!!! for real!!? pranking me?

Thank you for your detailed explanation. I do agree that humans tend to assimilate more and more as time progresses.
I am not talking for or against any religion but as I grow older I can sense where I need to cheat myself in order to accept what they say. Ok I am not going to invoke science in questioning evolution, but please tell me and this I ask in all humility why should we then accept Islam as the final evolved or most sophisticated religion. Like you did give a valid analogy about respecting the older version of Intel processers. This does mean that you are open minded about other religions replacing Islam as well, isn't it? Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am a Hindu and I know that much of Hindu philosophies have evolved over time and the latest ones regarding advajta philosophy was assimilated just less than 1000 years ago but which has built upon existing beliefs.. Much like Islam which was built upon existing beliefs of that region. However from what I read in forums is that Islam is final and can never change, however people.keep interpreti g according to their convenience. And same is the case with other religions as well. So at a personal.level I am frankly confused and disappointed. Thanks .

Ps.. not pranking regarding jewjsh nation . Feom where I stand I have best wishes for both Israel and Iran and would be very hard pressed to choose between the two.
Most nations which call themselves Muslim nations have not become out of love. There has been lost of coercion and conquest to make this happen. Something similar is happening to Israel as well but this time Islam is at the receiving end.

 

[Placemat]

Kissing Cousins
May 26, 2010, 6:57 PM IST Bachi Karkaria in Erratica | India | TOI

Am I my brother’s sleeper? This question surfaces each time I dip into the now daily diet of gotra gruel – and leaves me gagging on it. My deep, dark non-secret is that I am married to my first cousin. Truth be told, nearly 40 years on, I still cringe to mention the relationship to non-Parsi friends. The reaction invariably is one of shocked horror. To them, it is nothing short of first-degree incest. ‘You are a Pharoah or what?’ is the kindest of the retorts. But, amidst my fellow Parsis, I can swan around like Cleopatra.

My conditioning makes the current gotra-shotra controversy quite incomprehensible. The khap panchayat is the polar opposite of my own Bombay Parsi Panchayat, which tends to lynch those who DON’T marry within the clan. However, to be fair, our urbane, tribal justice comes in less overtly violent forms than those in the boondocks of Haryana, etc. The BPP will not take the hatchet to the offenders; it will simply axe their application for housing in one of its coveted Trust properties. This, in Mumbai, is a fate worse than death.

Parsis don’t have to marry their cousins, but in a so tiny a community, avoiding blood ties is impossible, relatively speaking. The ex-gotrawallas point to the genetic diseases that result from inbreeding. But even if the insular KPs may never have heard of many of the communities which uphold consanguineous marriages, there is a striking similarity of afflictions. The leaders themselves suffer from blinding disorders, and they inflict breathing problems on their victims. The scourge of ‘honour killings’ spreads like leukaemia.

Ironically, the KPs and the BPP (along with some Muslim anjumans) pull in diametrically opposite directions to achieve the same goal: preservation of the community. The former fervently believe that marrying outside the clan is the sanctified path to viable survival, while the latter are as adamantly convinced that intermarriage will spell doom, destruction and the end of civilization aka Sunday dhansak. Both sides are as firmly in the right as clearly as they are in the wrong.

All cultures have rules of engagement — and marriage. In as ethnically atomised a country as ours, social norms cannot be expected to submit to a uniform logic. How can they, when even in a single locality, one man’s celebration is another man’s provocation, and the only thing in common is the resulting riot? So, the best way to preserve unity is to keep each group segregated in its own cultural ghettos and its own housing societies.

You may argue that you cannot equate who you can marry with what you can cook, but the cynic, or simply the realist, will point out that a goose is involved in both scenarios. Indeed, that bird is an even more apt analogy for the anointed custodians of each community repast — and its present and future as well.

Worse, as we keep finding out, these sanctimonious upholders of regressive conventions are not just village be-headmen, or some moss-covered relics who have rolled out of the Stoning Age. The Gotra Gestapo of all communities swaggers about in suits that cut as sharply as their diktats, and blinkers masquerade as fashionable shades. It’s perversely reassuring to know that it’s not only in my own BPP that the most communal directives are expressed in the most cosmopolitan accents. In the past fortnight, Naveen Jindal has confirmed, with steely determination, that youth, Ivy League education, yea, even Page Three status provide no immunity against primordial infections. Mullahs with MBA degrees, IIT terrorists — everyone’s keeping up with the times to push us further back in time.

........

Modern day sanctimoniousness aside, there is no ancient culture where incest was not common.

The Greeks

The Romans

The Hindus

The Chinese

The Persians

The Egyptians

They all did it.

Cheers, Doc

Many decades ago I was asked if I would marry a niece .. I fled

 

[@@@]

No one besides zoros allow marriage between brothers-sisters, fathers-daughters, and mothers-sons. Im not judging im just saying it’s what you do.

We North Indians dont msrry within 5 gotras, so don’t lie that we marry our cousins.

Hindus are the largest group whom practice siblings on sibling, parent on child incest. Do not say 'Zoros' do this.