Folland Gnat - "The Sabre Slayer"

[Windjammer]

Aeronaut: “Run … it’s a 104”

Enough said .... I know you r troll with nickname "Jammed Wind " . But, its worth educating or giving a try .

Hakim didn't even sighted gnat and Pakistani thinks he force him to land come on bro plzz use your mind .

You are asking others to be polite, yet here by name calling, you have evidently proved to be the hypocrtic arsehole that Oscar pointed out. Besides your kind crawl around here to learn so enlighten yourself.
Even say if the F-104 didn't see the Gnat, but the Gnat pilot was well aware of the Starfighters presence, hence the panic call and losing will to fight..... and the same aircraft was flown by a PAF pilot the very next day with all systems working in perfect order,

 

[Slayer786]

of course we should take Pakistani records as gospel of truth ! Invincible PAF !!



already mentioned in the article!

Read the book 'Battle for Pakistan' written by John Fricker a British. It is a neutral source.

 

[silent poison]

You are asking others to be polite, yet here by name calling, you have evidently proved to be the hypocrtic arsehole that Oscar pointed out. Besides your kind crawl around here to learn so enlighten yourself.
Even say if the F-104 didn't see the Gnat, but the Gnat pilot was well aware of the Starfighters presence, hence the panic call and losing will to fight..... and the same aircraft was flown by a PAF pilot the very next day with all systems working in perfect order,

Didnt read it full the gnat was coming back after entering Indian airspace . So , i guess either Pakistani pilot that checked the plane next day is lying or the author or IAF Pilot was brave and turned back 2 PAF F-104 but, here goes your panic call .. Explain what made him turned or behave strangely ? As said in article if system are all good or PAF played with facts to fit the story ?

And rest only arsehole calls other person arsehole .

Read the book 'Battle for Pakistan' written by John Fricker a British. It is a neutral source.

Wow there was author from IHS Janes about whome you guys talked a lot and give as a link many time but , the day he bring his article on JF-17 block 2 you end up saying him bogus .

Anyway y not you look into history of John and from where he get
His so called neutral source

Even know our Pakistani friends live in any delusion it will clear it :

India lost a total of 24 aircraft to air action and ground fire. Measured against the 3,937 sorties flown in the western sector, this amounts to a loss rate of 0.6096 aircraft per hundred sorties flown in the war.

Compared to this, the Pakistan Air Force lost 43 aircraft. It admitted to the loss of only one F-86 on the ground to IAF action (at Sargodha). Taking this at face value, against a total of 2,364 sorties flown in the war, the Pakistan Air Force loss rate in air warfare would amount to 1.7766 aircraft for every hundred sorties flown. In other words, the PAF was losing aircraft at nearly three times the rate of the IAF during the war. Other estimates conclude that Pakistan lost close to half a dozen aircraft on the ground on account of IAF air action. In this case, the loss of 37 aircraft in air warfare would amount to a loss rate of 1.5651 aircraft for every hundred sorties flown in the war.

In other words, taking the lower figure for PAF losses in the air, Pakistan was losing 1.57 aircraft for very hundred sorties flown, compared to the IAF losing 0.61 aircraft. Given its overall smaller size, the PAF would have ceased to act as an operational force if the war had gone on for another two weeks or so.

 

[Slayer786]

Didnt read it full the gnat was coming back after entering Indian airspace . So , i guess either Pakistani pilot that checked the plane next day is lying or the author or IAF Pilot was brave and turned back 2 PAF F-104 but, here goes your panic call .. Explain what made him turned or behave strangely ? As said in article if system are all good or PAF played with facts to fit the story ?

And rest only arsehole calls other person arsehole .



Wow there was author from IHS Janes about whome you guys talked a lot and give as a link many time but , the day he bring his article on JF-17 block 2 you end up saying him bogus .

Anyway y not you look into history of John and from where he get
His so called neutral source

Even know our Pakistani friends live in any delusion it will clear it :

India lost a total of 24 aircraft to air action and ground fire. Measured against the 3,937 sorties flown in the western sector, this amounts to a loss rate of 0.6096 aircraft per hundred sorties flown in the war.

Compared to this, the Pakistan Air Force lost 43 aircraft. It admitted to the loss of only one F-86 on the ground to IAF action (at Sargodha). Taking this at face value, against a total of 2,364 sorties flown in the war, the Pakistan Air Force loss rate in air warfare would amount to 1.7766 aircraft for every hundred sorties flown. In other words, the PAF was losing aircraft at nearly three times the rate of the IAF during the war. Other estimates conclude that Pakistan lost close to half a dozen aircraft on the ground on account of IAF air action. In this case, the loss of 37 aircraft in air warfare would amount to a loss rate of 1.5651 aircraft for every hundred sorties flown in the war.

In other words, taking the lower figure for PAF losses in the air, Pakistan was losing 1.57 aircraft for very hundred sorties flown, compared to the IAF losing 0.61 aircraft. Given its overall smaller size, the PAF would have ceased to act as an operational force if the war had gone on for another two weeks or so.

LOL. I think I touched a raw nerve. We were discussing here about the 1965 war, what happened according to a neutral source.
Relax. Dont read it if u cant take the heat.

 

[silent poison]

LOL. I think I touched a raw nerve. We were discussing here about the 1965 war, what happened according to a neutral source.
Relax. Dont read it if u cant take the heat.

The neutral source you are referring to is the same neutral source that i guess each and every Pakistani is quoting from the day that book funded by PAF and based on PAF accounts was published even bored proving author wrong billion of times . Anyway i quoted your own PAF Pilot .

And you r at approx 48th Pakistani that i talked to came with His book .
And I'm out of the thread no need to quote . Relax and sip your coffee

 

[volatile]

The Pakistanis claim that Sikand surrendered and landed at Pasrur after being intercepted by a Starfighter flown by Flt. Lt. Hakimullah. India had always maintained that Sikand landed the Gnat at Pasrur by mistake thinking it was Pathankot, but not much has come to light in this regard after that. While it is true that Hakimullah was in the same area as the Gnat was, it is conjecture to say that Hakimullah forced Sikand to land at Pasrur. Sikand later went on to become a Air Marshal in the Indian Air Force even earning a AVSM, which seems to suggest that it was more a mistake than a deliberate act of surrender as the Pakistanis would have everyone believe. Today Gnat IE 1083 is on display at the PAF Museum at Karachi.

and we all have Aliens as our neighbours Wowwww !!! what an Idiot ,where was your tower at that moment ?Congrats you are making bunch of morons as your Air Marshal by the way that perfectly explains why IAF always struggle as if mental level of AM is this you can imagine what pilots are doing .

 

[danger007]

I am polite with those who deserve it. NOT TROLLS or those who take cheap shots. The countrymen from your nation represented here hardly are any example of who Indians generally are. 80% of the Indians are nothing but cynical arseholes. And for them I reserve zero politeness. The Indians and Pakistanis who are really worth appreciating are already appreciated. The rest deserve no quarter.

You supposed to be a mod.. how can you call 80% ... because of a single person ... If you have problem with him deal with him..

Good post. I'm glad a senior moderator can feel my pain. PDF has been reduced to rubbish due to indecent trolling by the aforementioned flag bearers.



This is PAKISTAN Defence Forum. If you have a problem, you can leave. NO ONE IS DYING to give anyone politeness.

the best possible way is ban topics related to India. .. then Indians won't come to your site...

 

[Donatello]

You supposed to be a mod.. how can you call 80% ... because of a single person ... If you problem with him deal with him..


the best possible way is ban topics related to India. .. then Indians won't come to your site...

Or allow topics related to India, and ban all Indians by default?

Because Indians tend to stick their nose where it is NOT needed.

 

[danger007]

Or allow topics related to India, and ban all Indians by default?

Because Indians tend to stick their nose where it is NOT needed.

mutual feeling... actually pak members are much more involved in nonsense ... look at those threads created by your fellow members regarding Indian internal issues. . ban all Indians ... by the way are you admin? or webby ??? to give referendum. ...

 

[MilSpec]

On topic, there is lesson to be learnt from the transition between the Ajeet to Marut to LCA.
One place where India has traditionally gone wrong is by sticking to license production of the best available aircraft to it. started with Gnat, Mig21, 27's, Jag's, Mki's rafale, T50 so on and so forth. In retrospect Indian aviation would have been much better off if India bought the IP rights atleast for the entire aircraft starting with the Gnat and then started subsequent development based on the platform. Gnats could have evolved into better lead in fighter trainer and supplanted as LCA for the 80's and 90's.

I feel that air frame's growth potential wasn't exploited fully. IAF still has the same opportunity with the MKI, plane jane MKI's are being produced and upgrades are originating mostly from Irkut. India if anything should atleast get all he IP's for the airframe, avionics and control systems and start making it's own upgrades.

 

[punit]

Read the book 'Battle for Pakistan' written by John Fricker a British. It is a neutral source.

During cold war .. when British Submarine were in Indian Ocean in support of Pakistan.. British sources and highly neutral!!

 

[SQ8]

You supposed to be a mod.. how can you call 80% ... because of a single person ... If you have problem with him deal with him..


the best possible way is ban topics related to India. .. then Indians won't come to your site...

80% of Indians ON PDF. And no, not because of a single person.

 

[Friei Indien]

nice article

 

[SQ8]

Bhai ko tou nahin kabhiii appreciate kiyaa ?

Achaa @Oscar yaraa - What exactly made the Gnat superior to the Sabre (on paper) ?

Aren't they both from, more or less, the same generation & back then it wasn't as if one was sporting an AESA while the other was still going by Visual Sighting; so wouldn't the difference be there but minimal ?

Better roll rate, Smaller profile, better armament. etc

 

[MilSpec]

@Oscar get rid of OT posts