Folland Gnat - "The Sabre Slayer"

[Areesh]

Lol slayer

 

[volatile]

truth is always considered as BS in pakistan, besides, face-saving obsession is hallmark of pakistanis

Pakistani Air Force has won every encounter against the Indian Air Force
HeavyMetal 3/13/2005 3:42:30 AM

Indian resources have naturally refuted and denied PAF air superiority over the FIVE times larger IAF in the 65 and 71 wars. Indian and Pakistani claims and counter claims are pointless on this subject as they tend to be biased and blurred with nationalism. The only way to assess this is through the neutral and qualified international opinion, which has now become aviation history. Check out autobiography of Gen. Chuck Yeagers (yes, the one who broke the sound barrier), who 'refereed' the 1971 war and flew up and down the region collecting wreckage of IAF aircraft shot down by the PAF. Here is what he says, "the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio knocking out 102 Indian jets and losing 34 of their own. I am certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks, documented them by serial numbers, identified the components such as engines and rocket pods" Now he is not exactly a Pakistani, is he?

Check out the following world reputed aviation journals.

USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.
"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

UK - Air International - November - 1991
" the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best "

Encyclopaedia of Aircraft printed in several countries by Orbis publications - Volume 5

"Pakistan's air force gained a remarkable victory over India in this brief 22 day war exploiting its opponents weaknesses in exemplary style - Deeply shaken by reverse, India began an extensive modernisation and training program, meanwhile covering its defeat with effective propaganda smoke screen.

If you feel more at ease with German and French, then also checkout the followings
Air Action (France) December 1988 and January 1989
Flugzeug (Germany) February (2) 1989

In addition to this, PAF put on show for inspection, its entire fleets after BOTH of the wars in presence of world dignitaries and aviation community. The five times bigger IAF should have annihilated the tiny PAF to prevent such displays!!!!!!
Now these are FACTS - what rides on a wave of nationalism is just fiction.

Pakistani Air Force has won every encounter against the Indian Air Force

Source: PAF 1965 air war explained (John Fricker)

What ever make you feel sleep OK !!! also

 

[Windjammer]

Slayed. ....one of the several Gnats which became victims of the PAF, is squarely captured in the gunsight of an F-86 Sabre.

 

[silent poison]

And Article clearly mention the Second Gnat was shot down deep into enemy territory 128Km . While Pakistani kills are mostly in Pakistani territory Or near border even they claimed they destroyed 30% IAF Fleet but the point they have to paradrop soldiers near Airbase doubt that claim . but , what we can do ... for Pakistani winning a event of war is euqal to winnig a war .

If i exclude opening air war raid by PAF no such heavy escort mission was done by PAF deep into Indian territory .

 

[silent poison]

Now , real question is Gnat too good to be called "Sabre Salayer" actually the IAF Gnat squadron great acchivement was to counter the F-86 sabre which was quite heavily bringing hell on IAF Bomber squadron of Canberra and what we called stupid bravery the IAF Pilot in there no match jet move towards F-86 and F-104 instead of retreating ... But , the night or we say early morning shift of Gnat to Pathankot actually turned the table ... IAF got a jet that can escape AIM Missile and even give a fight to F-86 an to F-104 on low altitude .

And my last post on a dead thread is about that image ... PAF shOuld release MM Alam kills images even if they can release the above ones ... ( it will be off topic to discuss )

The Pakistanis claim that Sikand surrendered and landed at Pasrur after being intercepted by a Starfighter flown by Flt. Lt. Hakimullah. India had always maintained that Sikand landed the Gnat at Pasrur by mistake thinking it was Pathankot, but not much has come to light in this regard after that. While it is true that Hakimullah was in the same area as the Gnat was, it is conjecture to say that Hakimullah forced Sikand to land at Pasrur. Sikand later went on to become a Air Marshal in the Indian Air Force even earning a AVSM, which seems to suggest that it was more a mistake than a deliberate act of surrender as the Pakistanis would have everyone believe. Today Gnat IE 1083 is on display at the PAF Museum at Karachi.

 

[SQ8]

1965 a totally confused war Pakistani thinks Defending Lahore is the victory not restoring freedom to Kashmir . Indian says defending Kashmir is Victory and there was no big aim to capture Lahore only enough area to bargain and its work with both forces agree to restore to Pre 1947 line .

And about Oscar i wonder on thread " 30% of IAF Reduced in one strike he warn Indians but , his guys was celebrating Defence day and god know what was that !! But , he is a MoD a perfect description of mod :p

About that Image of Gnat surrendering to F-104 . I have something to say -at low altitude the F-104 was a 'dead turkey', and the Gnat could have run rings around it .then what was a need to surrender probably i will agree IAF Pilot view that he thought its an Indian airfield plus PAF Pilot would have force him land on active forward airbase then y on abandon airfield ?

Question that my Pakistani friends should ask themselves .

Keep your complaints to GHQ. The rest of your post has NOTHING to do with the thread. The last paragraph also says nothing new, the account of the Indian pilot himself exists on PDF. Read that.

 

[Windjammer]

The Pakistanis claim that Sikand surrendered and landed at Pasrur after being intercepted by a Starfighter flown by Flt. Lt. Hakimullah. India had always maintained that Sikand landed the Gnat at Pasrur by mistake thinking it was Pathankot,

Well, only an Indian pilot wouldn't be able to distinguish between a disused strip and a fully fledged operational airbase.

 

[kurup]

Well, only an Indian pilot wouldn't be able to distinguish between a disused strip and a fully fledged operational airbase.

You can tell that your former PAF Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail who thinks so .

 

[silent poison]

Keep your complaints to GHQ. The rest of your post has NOTHING to do with the thread. The last paragraph also says nothing new, the account of the Indian pilot himself exists on PDF. Read that.

Ok , done . But, it will be good if you try to be bit polite with your neghbours.

Rest even i thought It was already discussed but, so is the post made by your countrymens . About Gnat and rest .

 

[SQ8]

Ok , done . But, it will be good if you try to be bit polite with your neghbours.

Rest even i thought It was already discussed but, so is the post made by your countrymens . About Gnat and rest .

I am polite with those who deserve it. NOT TROLLS or those who take cheap shots. The countrymen from your nation represented here hardly are any example of who Indians generally are. 80% of the Indians on pdf are nothing but cynical arseholes. And for them I reserve zero politeness. The Indians and Pakistanis who are really worth appreciating are already appreciated. The rest deserve no quarter.

 

[Donatello]

I am polite with those who deserve it. NOT TROLLS or those who take cheap shots. The countrymen from your nation represented here hardly are any example of who Indians generally are. 80% of the Indians are nothing but cynical arseholes. And for them I reserve zero politeness. The Indians and Pakistanis who are really worth appreciating are already appreciated. The rest deserve no quarter.

Good post. I'm glad a senior moderator can feel my pain. PDF has been reduced to rubbish due to indecent trolling by the aforementioned flag bearers.

Ok , done . But, it will be good if you try to be bit polite with your neghbours.

Rest even i thought It was already discussed but, so is the post made by your countrymens . About Gnat and rest .

This is PAKISTAN Defence Forum. If you have a problem, you can leave. NO ONE IS DYING to give anyone politeness.

 

[Donatello]

[quote="Donatello, post: 6166843, member:

This is PAKISTAN Defence Forum. If you have a problem, you can leave. NO ONE IS DYING to give anyone politeness.

Ya , i know its Defence.pk and Pk stands for Pakistan .... But , problem is sirf naam ka Pakistani Defence forum . Rest i maybe banned for destroying already destroyed thread .[/quote]

This has been discussed to death. PDF is for ALL members who can contribute in a technical and a no non-sense manner. People from all over world take part here. PDF actually gives Indians more freedom than they would have on their own national websites/media. Please don't abuse this and use it as a platform to convince others that you hold views of value, and not just of lame posts.

 

[Armstrong]

I am polite with those who deserve it. NOT TROLLS or those who take cheap shots. The countrymen from your nation represented here hardly are any example of who Indians generally are. 80% of the Indians are nothing but cynical arseholes. And for them I reserve zero politeness. The Indians and Pakistanis who are really worth appreciating are already appreciated. The rest deserve no quarter.

Bhai ko tou nahin kabhiii appreciate kiyaa ?

Achaa @Oscar yaraa - What exactly made the Gnat superior to the Sabre (on paper) ?

Aren't they both from, more or less, the same generation & back then it wasn't as if one was sporting an AESA while the other was still going by Visual Sighting; so wouldn't the difference be there but minimal ?

 

[silent poison]

Ya , i know its Defence.pk and Pk stands for Pakistan .... But , problem is sirf naam ka Pakistani Defence forum . Rest i maybe banned for destroying already destroyed thread .

This has been discussed to death. PDF is for ALL members who can contribute in a technical and a no non-sense manner. People from all over world take part here. PDF actually gives Indians more freedom than they would have on their own national websites/media. Please don't abuse this and use it as a platform to convince others that you hold views of value, and not just of lame posts.[/quote]

Yr when i abused anyone ?

Just take a chill pill ... I was just replying to the post i didn't like atleast i can do that or not ?

I don't think i trolled or anyone complaint about me trolling only we r derailing the thread right now .

Now , take a drink and sit back and move on to other thread .... Like Agni-1 tested and if you hate sharif you can go to go sharif go thread . Your choice tc .

 

[Armstrong]

I am polite with those who deserve it. NOT TROLLS or those who take cheap shots. The countrymen from your nation represented here hardly are any example of who Indians generally are. 80% of the Indians are nothing but cynical arseholes. And for them I reserve zero politeness. The Indians and Pakistanis who are really worth appreciating are already appreciated. The rest deserve no quarter.

Bhai ko tou nahin kabhiii appreciate kiyaa ?

Achaa @Oscar yaraa - What exactly made the Gnat superior to the Sabre (on paper) ?

Aren't they both from, more or less, the same generation & back then it wasn't as if one was sporting an AESA while the other was still going by Visual Sighting; so wouldn't the difference be there but minimal ?