Fire Fighting moment against PROTOCOL Culture

[OrionHunter]

How brave and intelligent of you and all the other idiots who did that? what if the military was responding to a terrorist attack somewhere? There is really no shortage of fucking assholes in this country.

If they were responding to an emergency concerning a terror attack, the troops should have gone by choppers and not by road! So, in other words, this wasn't an emergency where the roads had to be cleared for a military convoy to pass.

 

[Rank]

This is stupidity - the Pakistani Security Forces have SOP's - this is necessary - the people who did this, if true - deserve prosecution.

jinke policies ke waja say 60,000 Pakistani mara
Pakistan 1971 may alag hogaya
1980s may jo jahan ka Islam jehad kay naam pe mulk ka satya naas mara

woh prosecution face na karain.. woh public karay jinhonay 10 garyaan block kardi hain WAAH WHAT A MENTALITY!

 

[Imran Khan]

jinke policies ke waja say 60,000 Pakistani mara
Pakistan 1971 may alag hogaya
1980s may jo jahan ka Islam jehad kay naam pe mulk ka satya naas mara

woh prosecution face na karain.. woh public karay jinhonay 10 garyaan block kardi hain WAAH WHAT A MENTALITY!

waah beta tu nhi tery ander imran khan bolda aaj to

 

[Rank]

waah beta tu nhi tery ander imran khan bolda aaj to

yaar asal may banda apna moo band rakhay tu behtar hey ye baat samaj nahe ati... jawab denay ko asi asi batain hain ye tu mainay khali abhe 4 lines likhi hain.. . point sirf itna hey .. kay bhi may koi INDIAN AMREEKAN AGENT nahe ban gaya ye baat karkay .. bc insay ziada defend karta araha hoo Intel ko ye tu itnernet pe bhaeet kar boolta yhain.. hamnay different platforms pe ja ja kar defend kya hey.. likin inke is protocolw ali harkat pe kise sorat defend nahe kya ja sakhta... utha kar 2 chezoon ko mix kardiya hey ...

 

[truthseeker2010]

This was not against protocol culture, this was sheer stupidity.

You always give right of way to high security convoys like this.

When a unit is on the move, they always travel in one line and on the fast lane, you have to give way to them for operational reasons.

Protocol culture is not having 15 security cars for you, protocol culture is having 15 cars with you for no reason at all and having routes all over the place.

This was a security reasons, simple as that. Nobody blames Obama for the security measures the Secret Service takes.

if it is against civilians it is justified, if it is against military it is stupidity..... and comparing obama with the army...... you must give some other example.... because in us army use railroads or heli when moving units....because there time is equally important for everyone.

 

[Imran Khan]

yaar asal may banda apna moo band rakhay tu behtar hey ye baat samaj nahe ati... jawab denay ko asi asi batain hain ye tu mainay khali abhe 4 lines likhi hain.. . point sirf itna hey .. kay bhi may koi INDIAN AMREEKAN AGENT nahe ban gaya ye baat karkay .. bc insay ziada defend karta araha hoo Intel ko ye tu itnernet pe bhaeet kar boolta yhain.. hamnay different platforms pe ja ja kar defend kya hey.. likin inke is protocolw ali harkat pe kise sorat defend nahe kya ja sakhta... utha kar 2 chezoon ko mix kardiya hey ...

یہ ہماری قومی نفسیات ہے میں ایکسٹریم پیٹریاٹ تھا اور ہوں اور رہوں گا پر جو بات حق اور سچ ہے وہ اگنور نہیں کر سکتا ۔ ہماری فورسز کے لیے ہمارا سب کچھ قربان پر ہم اتنے بھی پاگل نا بنیں کہ ہر بات پر واہ واہ کرنے لگیں ۔ یہاں پر حق سچ نہیں پرستش کا زمانہ ہے ہر کوئی ایک طرف منہ کر کے اسکی پوجا کری جا رہا ہے اگلا ٹھیک ہو یا غلط ۔ میں نے جب بھی دیکھا اپنی فوج کی طرف سے غلطی کوتاہی اس پر آنکھیں بند نہیں کی بلکہ لکھا اور چوٹ کے انداز میں ۔ ڈیفینڈ بھی کیا یہاں دوسرے فورمز پر عرب فورمز پر پر اندھا مقلد کبھی نا بن سکا ۔اب بھی ہندو ہندو کی صدا سنائی دیتی ہے کبھی کبھی ۔ اسکی وجہ سے کئی بار بین ہونا پڑا ایک بار اگر جناب کو یاد ہو تو فورم خود بین ہو چکا ہے ھا ھا ھا ھ ا۔ یہاں تو یہ حالت ہے عقیدے پر تنقید کرو تو قادیانی یہودی ہندو ۔ عمران خان پر تنقید کرو تو نونی پٹواری ۔ نواز پر کوئی کچھ بولے تو پوٹی پی پی کو کچھ بولو تو مہاجر مہاجر کو کچھ بولو تو دشمن غدار ۔ یہاں کا آوے کا آوا برباد ہے ۔ اس ملک کی عوام میں معاملات کو اینالئز کرنے اور غیر جانبدارانہ رائے دینے کے لیے ابھی 200-300 سال مزید درکار ہیں ۔ فوج کو موومنٹ سر آنکھوں پر لیکن ہوٹر بازی اور وی آئی پیزکی طرح موو کرنا یا دندنانا کہاں کا انصاف ہے یہ تو دھونس دینے والی بات ہوئی پچھلے مہینے بھی کراچی کے ایک بھائی نے ایسی تھریڈ کھولی تھا جہاں ٹریفک جام میں سپاہی نے اس کی طرف گن تان کر وارننگ دی تھی ۔ پر کیا کریں تم نے بھڑوں کے چھتے میں ہاتھ ڈال دیا ہے اس فورم پر بہت کم پاکستانی ممبر ہیں جن کو اپنی افواج میں بھی غلطی دکھائی دیتی ہے اور انکی آنکھوں پر عقیدت کی پٹی نہیں ہے ۔

 

[GHOST RIDER]

Stealth is right,when it is something important they block the roads and most of the times soldiers(rangers) stand guard at different points on the whole roads,
I have witnessed this in Karachi, I am pretty sure (may be) others members have to, when they block a main road so a millitary convoy can pass,

And I have experienced the other too, where all they want to do is get from one point to another fast,
I have seen them disobeying signals once, and as usual soldiers sitting in the back start signaling with their hands.

 

[forcetrip]

So if my car is faster while traveling in the "fast lane" will I be deemed as a VIP? If your car is blocking a faster car in the first lane you have lost the plot. Now when they were blocking the second lane is where the security of the high speed convoy was. VIP culture is when they block intersections for the public so they can not even join traffic. You blocking an "army convoy" should have actually understood that was not the case.

 

[PurpleButcher]

Public anger turn against anyone whether military or the politicians. Yesterday I was coming from Islamabad to Rawalpindi. There was a military protocol from Serrena to Chaklala. About 10 -15 Military pickups with SSG's was on the route. When they start unnecessary hooters, disturbing 2nd and 1st lane. In reaction, all the public cars start blocking Army jeeps rather giving them space. Most of the public cars joined fast lane and blocking military jeeps. The reason of this is, "Inkay baap ka mulk nahe hey", why they start disturbing public traffic first place ?

After disturbing traffic Initially soldiers loaded cars giving signals with their hand for open the path. When they realized that they can't fight against the public anger because they disturb public cars on the road. 3 Military pickups on from front/left/right blocked me slow down their pickup just to slow my and other public cars. Similarly they did with all other public cars, few pickups circling private cars just to side them and open path for the other jeeps. From Islamabad to Garrison, all public cars show extreme anger to all these protocol jeeps.

This anger against the Protocol culture, not against the Army. CLEAR Message. I'm bigger supporter of the Military include Pakistan intelligence, but it doesn't mean that we will ignore this protocol bullshit especially unnecessary disturbing traffic, ambulances etc

1st. Not seems like a protocol because if there was any high ranking official, every time they block the highway completely so maybe convoy just reach garrison.

2nd, If fear of any attack, they should avoid public road and use helicopters.

3rd, Every time such protocol disturb and create problem for ambulances etc.

4th, Its very dangerous especially now a days when public anger is on its peak against this protocol culture, Military should completely ignore/avoid moving their convoys especially in office start/end timings like 6 - 8 PM (particularly).

5th, As we know, recently CM Sindh, PPP former PM son, Previous Govt officials in PIA flight, PM and CM in Sialkot and other parts of Pakistan protocols was stopped by the public. Military should avoid such confrontation with the public. That is the time to get vote from the public rather disturbing public with protocol especially non-sense which is completely unjustifiable any where in the world.

Justify action, when action is justifiable!

There is already massive propaganda going on against Pakistan Military by International Media which include local media and all sides of the borders. If ghalate say bhi by mistake they will kill any civilian btw the protocol trust me... whole world which include Pakistan and Pakistan media, will start massive media-war against Pakistan Army. Military is not interested, not interested any kind of confrontation btw the Military and civilian especially in protocol case because its not justifiable anywhere in the world!

to those who haven't suffered army's protocol culture in Pindi, this might seem wrong.

But for me a resident of askari 10, between chaklala garrison and generals colony, i have witnessed these general's and their protocols very well. Every morning around 8:45 the gates of askari 10 will be closed, no one will be allowed to leave the gate no matter what the emergency may be! Same in the afternoon.

and god forbid if its core commander's conference then forget abt doing anything. these generals travel with roads closed on both sides. I remember once , when only one side side used to be blocked, i was stuck in the fast lane in front of the jinnah park signal, and some brave SSG commandos were pointing their guns at schoolgirls as to why they were on the footpath because the mighty 4 star or 5 star general was to pass! How dare a kami kameen be on the road at the time? How dare?

Now as far as responding to terrorist attacks, yes way should be given. But how the hell would nation differentiate between a serious requirement and just a vip culture when 99.995 its vip route. Cant these generals travel in anonymity?

And what about the ambulances who get stuck in these protocol traffic jams? Now don't say they don't get stuck, I am a witness to jawans treating bloody civilians like shit when the protocol time is on. I can also recall in 2007/08 there was a wedding of a general's daughter in PC and for few hrs in the evening every 10 mins there would be a route. I can go on and on.....

but to sum it up.... No one should travel on the road with lanes cleansed of ordinary non vip kami kameen Pakistanis. In case of an emergency police/ambulances/fire brigades vehicle are given way already. And once vip culture is abolsihed when once in a blue moon army has to go and respond to a terrorist attack, the nation will give them way, we the bloody civilians are not morons who will not give way when the reason is justified.

 

[forcetrip]

to those who haven't suffered army's protocol culture in Pindi, this might seem wrong.

But for me a resident of askari 10, between chaklala garrison and generals colony, i have witnessed these general's and their protocols very well. Every morning around 8:45 the gates of askari 10 will be closed, no one will be allowed to leave the gate no matter what the emergency may be! Same in the afternoon.

and god forbid if its core commander's conference then forget abt doing anything. these generals travel with roads closed on both sides. I remember once , when only one side side used to be blocked, i was stuck in the fast lane in front of the jinnah park signal, and some brave SSG commandos were pointing their guns at schoolgirls as to why they were on the footpath because the mighty 4 star or 5 star general was to pass! How dare a kami kameen be on the road at the time? How dare?

Now as far as responding to terrorist attacks, yes way should be given. But how the hell would nation differentiate between a serious requirement and just a vip culture when 99.995 its vip route. Cant these generals travel in anonymity?

And what about the ambulances who get stuck in these protocol traffic jams? Now don't say they don't get stuck, I am a witness to jawans treating bloody civilians like shit when the protocol time is on. I can also recall in 2007/08 there was a wedding of a general's daughter in PC and for few hrs in the evening every 10 mins there would be a route. I can go on and on.....

but to sum it up.... No one should travel on the road with lanes cleansed of ordinary non vip kami kameen Pakistanis. In case of an emergency police/ambulances/fire brigades vehicle are given way already. And once vip culture is abolsihed when once in a blue moon army has to go and respond to a terrorist attack, the nation will give them way, we the bloody civilians are not morons who will not give way when the reason is justified.

That is straight up VIP culture. This is why the politicians feel they can get away with it looking at the army doing it. Everyone's time is money. If your car is not as fast as the other persons move out of the way. Doesn't have to have an emergency siren and horns till you grudgingly move out cussing in your car. Use your education or if not, use your common sense while driving.

 

[SQ8]

Here is the deal. Essentially the Military convoys by their nature are a threat to all other people on the road. Because they are targets and their very presence means the death of innocents. Military VIP movements are NOT justified just as those with civilians are not. If one car with 4 guys cannot protect you, 15 cannot either.

Now comes the issue of moving military assets. For starters, the military should realize that it is high time it abandons its real estate ideals of settling near cities and moves out of these areas. Apart from the Pentagon, people dont keep military cantonments and bases near settlements. For a country plagued by terrorist and with massive blows to it already these issues are already well clear.

There should be NO.. and I mean NO inconvenience to the common man because of security. It is not his problem that the soldiers have houses next door. To alleviate this with minimal cost, movements should be restricted to the wee hours of the morning and not at peak traffic times. Im sure some Kakul graduate would have that much sense in them to know this as they usually were doing such activities around 1 am to 3 am. Whosover planned this movement should have been smarter.

Now coming to the reaction of the common man, this was incorrect. Not from a moral standpoint but essentially from a security standpoint. A green Army pickup is essentially a big red target for a bomb attack. Which means that while it is within 200m of you your life is in danger. Additionally, by law there is a nice blue/red protocol book which defines who deserves security and not.
By law in the US, a military motorcade IF escorted by law enforcement has right of way. People need to take their cars to the curb and let them pass through. However, the military themselves do not have authority unless given so by the local government.

In Pakistan's case, a Pakistani army officer is an officer of the state and in defined conditions can request the general public to let the cars pass legitimize but cannot order them to do so unless a member of local law enforcement is with them with the proper legal permission authorized to do so.

So, when it comes to ANYONE else than the PM, President and CMs, Military chiefs( who all have restricted and defined number of escorts and length of time they can hold traffic)... we all have the right..and moral requirement to stop and shove our cars into the escorts of these so called VIPs.

But when it comes to military movements, one must give way and allow them to exit the area ASAP. Not just for theirs but for our own safety. So while I can understand the emotions people now hold against needless hooting and traffic blocking for everyone from the Chief Justice to the Nephew of Zardari.... military movement(soldiers, equipment) moving from one place to the other should be given quick headway to get out.

Cant these generals travel in anonymity?.

Funny thing is, the same Generals when not going to work or their offices.. are happy travelling with their families in just a single SUV. You would think that the threat to them then would be greater especially with their families around.

Ive taken a Major General sitting at a very sensitive post around my own car to visit someone and drop them back. The only thing was that they just switched from the uniform shirt to a plain white tee. No one noticed, no one cared.

 

[Rank]

Here is the deal. Essentially the Military convoys by their nature are a threat to all other people on the road. Because they are targets and their very presence means the death of innocents. Military VIP movements are NOT justified just as those with civilians are not. If one car with 4 guys cannot protect you, 15 cannot either.

Now comes the issue of moving military assets. For starters, the military should realize that it is high time it abandons its real estate ideals of settling near cities and moves out of these areas. Apart from the Pentagon, people dont keep military cantonments and bases near settlements. For a country plagued by terrorist and with massive blows to it already these issues are already well clear.

There should be NO.. and I mean NO inconvenience to the common man because of security. It is not his problem that the soldiers have houses next door. To alleviate this with minimal cost, movements should be restricted to the wee hours of the morning and not at peak traffic times. Im sure some Kakul graduate would have that much sense in them to know this as they usually were doing such activities around 1 am to 3 am. Whosover planned this movement should have been smarter.

Now coming to the reaction of the common man, this was incorrect. Not from a moral standpoint but essentially from a security standpoint. A green Army pickup is essentially a big red target for a bomb attack. Which means that while it is within 200m of you your life is in danger. Additionally, by law there is a nice blue/red protocol book which defines who deserves security and not.
By law in the US, a military motorcade IF escorted by law enforcement has right of way. People need to take their cars to the curb and let them pass through. However, the military themselves do not have authority unless given so by the local government.

In Pakistan's case, a Pakistani army officer is an officer of the state and in defined conditions can request the general public to let the cars pass legitimize but cannot order them to do so unless a member of local law enforcement is with them with the proper legal permission authorized to do so.

So, when it comes to ANYONE else than the PM, President and CMs, Military chiefs( who all have restricted and defined number of escorts and length of time they can hold traffic)... we all have the right..and moral requirement to stop and shove our cars into the escorts of these so called VIPs.

But when it comes to military movements, one must give way and allow them to exit the area ASAP. Not just for theirs but for our own safety. So while I can understand the emotions people now hold against needless hooting and traffic blocking for everyone from the Chief Justice to the Nephew of Zardari.... military movement(soldiers, equipment) moving from one place to the other should be given quick headway to get out.





Funny thing is, the same Generals when not going to work or their offices.. are happy travelling with their families in just a single SUV. You would think that the threat to them then would be greater especially with their families around.

Ive taken a Major General sitting at a very sensitive post around my own car to visit someone and drop them back. The only thing was that they just switched from the uniform shirt to a plain white tee. No one noticed, no one cared.

Agreed! Oscar they violate any SOP if they had .... the problem is unnecessary hooters/horns and dodging public cars from the 1st lane - fast lane was the main reason of the yesterday event. The problem is, from whom orders military jeep overtaking public cars from the right left and the middle ? which kind of convoy is that? I think no high ranking official was there.... all are just reaching garrison. Military should understand that people are fed-up with these VVIP culture. Military must avoid such situation in which they will face public in "Protocol Case". This VVIP culture is actually creating anger in the public. For second.... when you hear hooter sound, 99% of drivers going offend ... everyone knew that...

 

[Jango]

if it is against civilians it is justified, if it is against military it is stupidity..... and comparing obama with the army...... you must give some other example.... because in us army use railroads or heli when moving units....because there time is equally important for everyone.

What exactly did you want to say?

By giving the Obama example, I meant to highlight genuine security protocol vs showoff protocol.

Funny thing is, the same Generals when not going to work or their offices.. are happy travelling with their families in just a single SUV. You would think that the threat to them then would be greater especially with their families around.

Ive taken a Major General sitting at a very sensitive post around my own car to visit someone and drop them back. The only thing was that they just switched from the uniform shirt to a plain white tee. No one noticed, no one cared.

These sort of generals are not the important ones and they go around as such with only a 1 or 2 car escort around places.

I've seen SPD generals go around with only 2 cars while in uniform. No hooters, no nothing. Just 2 white Prados going around normally.

So can't put everyone in the same basket.

 

[Rank]

What exactly did you want to say?

By giving the Obama example, I meant to highlight genuine security protocol vs showoff protocol.



These sort of generals are not the important ones and they go around as such with only a 1 or 2 car escort around places.

I've seen SPD generals go around with only 2 cars while in uniform. No hooters, no nothing. Just 2 white Prados going around normally.

So can't put everyone in the same basket.

Your post on the 1st page was out of the sense...Kindly read my 1st post again... or above one from yours at this page...

 

[SQ8]

Agreed! Oscar they violate any SOP if they had .... the problem is unnecessary hooters/horns and dodging public cars from the 1st lane - fast lane was the main reason of the yesterday event. The problem is, from whom orders military jeep overtaking public cars from the right left and the middle ? which kind of convoy is that? I think no high ranking official was there.... all are just reaching garrison. Military should understand that people are fed-up with these VVIP culture. Military must avoid such situation in which they will face public in "Protocol Case". This VVIP culture is actually creating anger in the public. For second.... when you hear hooter sound, 99% of drivers going offend ... everyone knew that...

The biggest issue with any hooter is that it disturbs you in an already messed up traffic situation. Most and by most I mean 99.5% of Pakistani driving is lawless and mad. If you are in a bike you want to slip through a pinhole, if you are in a car you hate the bike guys.. the trucks.. everybody hates everybody on the road. You want to run them down. With such a high susceptibility of road rage being inconvenienced further by someone who is only going home from their work makes us rather mad.

There are no VIPs in the system. There are people key to the functioning of the government and for them too there is a very defined presence to be had. The idea that the current situation is the reason for this protocol is pure Bull crap. Ive seen the same generals and their hooters back in the mid 90s when all the doors of Isb and Rwp houses would remain open without care and people would roam about without care; these people would still try to assert their "superiority". You can thank Zia for starting this protocol bull within the military.

There are official rules, anything other than that is illegal and immoral.