Fateh Submarine | News & Discussions

[-SINAN-]

when you can't even make a laser guided artillery.

There is a big difference in "We can't and we didn't"

We can make 70 mm laser guided missile, but you suggest that we can't make a 155mm laser guided shell...

Also GPS/INS guided shells beats laser guided shells by far. And that's the thing that we are working on.

 

[MTN1917]

The senior naval official of the Iranian navy said it has a mass 5 times that of jamaran. That poster is wrong/outdate, . even assuming Jamaran had a mass of 1200 tons, then this will have a mass of 6000 tons. But it generally believed Jamaran (based on vosper class) has a mass of 1500-1750 tons. If you can access youtube then you should see the video below.

P.s it's not a "training" warship, it is a warship, they are just talking propaganda to not scare the regional countries into going and buying more western toys..

Check my reply to the member below you.
I posted the video (in Persian) where the official has said it has a mass 5x jamaran and carries 6x more personal. if it has a mass 5x jamaran you think it will be 3500 tons? come on... Don't pay too much attention to the small mockup or that "poster".
The project has started, they have started building it.

Actually I have heard what Sayyari have said, Vosper class had a displacement of 1100 tons(1500 full load), 1100x5=5500

And there will be only one Logham project ship(khalij fars), this ship was designed as a training ship(just look at it), it is designed to accommodate large numbers of cadets, another class of true destroyers(or heavy frigate) will be built.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

How Iranian sees Future of Pakistan.... I only want Iranian and Afghani comments...

 

[-SINAN-]

Russia navy with turkey is jock

Who compared the two navies can you show me that post ?

 

[kouroshkourosh]

Who compared the two navies can you show me that post ?

I read the comments faulty

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin
I know the difference between displacement mass and normal mass, I don't need your help.
It seems to me you have difficulty understanding simple facts. I told you what the naval cammander said you want something "independently verifiable". If the commnder words are enough, then your problem is something else. First you claim the ship has a tonnage of 3000-3759 because of the scale of the helicopter compared to the ship and now you're trying to compare another small (but large mockup) to the sahand. Even if it is true that the fully loaded mass if 7500 ton and it has a non loaded mass of 5500, that is still about 1700 more than what you "claimed".

Maybe you should just sit back quietly until it comes out then we can talk further because right now, you're acting like a arrogant child. Stop taking the mockups to scale. I take the word of the commander over your attempts at an "evaluation".
@The SC This guy seems to be just too arrogant and lacking common sensibility to chat to. Shall we take his world over the Iranian naval commander?

Who's being arrogant now?

1. The information on deadweight, displacement etc wasn't necessarily intended for you. It is a forum, there are other readers, who may or may not appreciate the differences.
2. Trust but verify is a good adagium imho. If you want to blindly trust officials and not think for yourself, be my guest.
3. I claimed a decent frigate size, and I still do, so no need for quotes. I did so based on the size of the helicopter decks. You can laught about the helicopter for all I care, but there are plenty of other reference items available: 40mm, radars, missile boxes, doors in the superstructure. Which you conveniently ignore.
4. It would be difficult to compare with anything other than a model for a ship that hasn't been built yet, wouldn't you agree? If you have pics of Loghman, please do post.
5. I haven't claimed 7500 tons, I did show you what a warship of that tonnage looks like.
6. I haven't claimed 5500 tons, merely pointed out how and why some creative official could get to a number of 5x the displacement of Jamaran (5x1500>7500, 5x1100> 5500) for a ship that actually isn't 7500 full load displacement but 5500 ton full load displacement. It is called a scenario, which is a very commonly used tool. We all know government officials always tell the truth, don't we. Note I did not claim 5500 tons fld.
7. Your criticism was that the initial model was so small and not to scale. I would like to point out that a 1:10 or 1:20 model is far more likely to be to scale and certainly not small. Who are these folks and what are they standing in front of? For whom are these models made anyway? Why would they NOT make such large models to scale? What kind of facility is that, anyway, since it is obviously not JUST doing something with models?

Иран представил новую 3D РЛС военного назначения
Cận cảnh radar tóm máy bay tàng hình của Iran | Vũ khí | Kienthuc.net.vn

Rear Admiral Habibollah Sayyari, the commander of the Iranian Navy as of 2013
+
General Abdolrahim Mousavi is the Chief of the Joint Staff of the Iranian armed forces.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Leave wahabis, Turkish shupa powa and everything else out of this Thread, members stay on topic.

Thread is about Fateh-Class Submarine stick to the Topic.

 

[Hakan]

@Prince of Persia

You have no idea who this penguin guy is. If you go to the military forum and carefully read his posts you will see that this guy is an expert when it comes to naval topics. You can ask any of the high level guys on this forum and they will tell you the same. When he speaks everyone listens. Why? Because he knows what he is talking about which is why he is a think tank analyst.

 

[The SC]

@The SC This guy seems to be just too arrogant and lacking common sensibility to chat to. Shall we take his world over the Iranian naval commander?

No, actually I know that he likes to argue to death, he can get access to wikipedia anytime and come up with definitions and standards., etc.
He can not conceive the thought of asymetric warfare and the kind of weapons it takes, nor the optimization of systems. He wants Iran to talk openly about its specs, so that might be the thing itching him mostly. So either he is very young or a professional troll, wanting to extrat the most information from his conversations. He might be a professional spy too, who knows!!!

 

[kouroshkourosh]

No, actually I know that he likes to argue to death, he can get access to wikipedia anytime and come up with definitions and standards., etc.
He can not conceive the thought of asymetric warfare and the kind of weapons it takes, nor the optimization of systems. He wants Iran to talk openly about its specs, so that might be the thing itching him mostly. So either he is very young or a professional troll, wanting to extrat the most information from his conversations. He might be a professional spy too, who knows!!!

who?

 

[The SC]

7500 ton !? I don't think so by the looks of the small and large models I've seen pics of: it is not 5x the size of the Alvand and domestic variants thereof. More likely about 2500-3500 ton.


Where does this information (equipment, capabilities) come from?

Do your home work and you will find out, they are tough to get though, so be patient and rigorous.

 

[Penguin]

who?

Dr. Who

Do your home work and you will find out, they are tough to get though, so be patient and rigorous.

Ran out of substance?

No, actually I know that he likes to argue to death, he can get access to wikipedia anytime and come up with definitions and standards., etc.
He can not conceive the thought of asymetric warfare and the kind of weapons it takes, nor the optimization of systems. He wants Iran to talk openly about its specs, so that might be the thing itching him mostly. So either he is very young or a professional troll, wanting to extrat the most information from his conversations. He might be a professional spy too, who knows!!!

 

[gambit]

Iran's navy has good ambitions. They are already developing a loghman (7500 ton) destroyer, I think maybe Iran plans on having one blue water fleet in the future. A nuclear or large submarine would be good. Of course such a fleet is not an necessity for Iran in my view since the biggest challenge Iran faces is in the gulf.

Currently, the besat would be the best choice for Iran since it would have rooms for a decent amount of cruise missile (noor, qader,qadir etc). When it come to the Persian gulf, the smaller you can keep your subs the better.

@gambit In your opinion, what would be some major advantaged of Besat (1200 ton) over Fateh (600). I mean other than the loner endurance. Would you prefer such small sum than the giant US nuclear submarines when it comes to the Persian gulf? Thanks in advance

US nuclear subs are designed for long range and duration sorties in open waters first and it is pretty much recent that littoral (shallow) waters became prominent. Nuclear power will also give you the ability to stay submerged longer than non-nuclear subs.

But there are issues with large subs in littoral (shallow) waters like the Persian Gulf, which is...

Persian Gulf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The waters are overall very shallow, with a maximum depth of 90 metres (295 feet) and an average depth of 50 metres (164 feet).

Note the average depth in the Persian Gulf.

Now note this...

The Right Submarine for Lurking in the Littorals | U.S. Naval Institute

Normally, an SSN must have at least 50 - 60 feet of water under its keel for navigational safety; the corresponding depth for an SSK is 30 - 40 feet. A submarine must sail relatively close to the sea surface to use its periscope or snorkel for communications. For example, the periscope depth for a U.S. SSN is about 50 feet. For the German Type 212A SSK, it is about 40 feet. To avoid pursuit, the boat must have much greater depth under its keel so that it can conduct quick vertical maneuvers.

A sub's main line of safety from hunters is depth. For navigation, 20 meters depth below keel may be sufficient, after all, for navigation relative to surface, only x and y maneuvers are necessary. But if there are hunters trying to do you harm, your maximum rated depth will be needed and you will need to descend to that depth fast. Remember, we are operating in a 3D environment here: x, y, and z (depth).

So if Iran wants to operate larger and larger subs in the shallow Persian Gulf environment, those subs will be constrained in how much and how fast they can maneuver in combat.

 

[jarves]

No, actually I know that he likes to argue to death, he can get access to wikipedia anytime and come up with definitions and standards., etc.
He can not conceive the thought of asymetric warfare and the kind of weapons it takes, nor the optimization of systems. He wants Iran to talk openly about its specs, so that might be the thing itching him mostly. So either he is very young or a professional troll, wanting to extrat the most information from his conversations. He might be a professional spy too, who knows!!!

Are you hinting at Penguin?? lmao!!

He is the only one who is making sense in this thread and he is being attacked,lmao!!!

 

[Penguin]

I was still puzzeled by the helicopter aboard the Loghman model. Initially I compared it to a chinese Z-9 since I figured if Iran needs an ASW helicopter that China would be a plausible source. But the model doesn't quite fit Z-9, for it lacks the hallmark (french) fenestron tail rotor design. On second thought, I think it may be a Chinese Z-20, which is very similar to UH-60/70 Black Hawk. It gives a better match on the tail, even though the model has a 4 blade ande the Z-20 a 5-blade rotor. The Z-20 is a 10t class heli projected to replace eventually the large number of Russian Mi-17 series in service with PLA Army Aviation. If indeed Z-20, this does not affect my earlier estimate: the deck on Alvand and Sahand classes can likely take both Bell 214 and Sea King helicopters and the latter is similar in size to UH-60 and hence Z-20.

Info's from the site of Huitong Chinese Military Aviation: Helicopters III