F-16 Rolls While SU-30 Crawls

[Michael Corleone]

Slow TVC maneuvers can get Su-30 pilots killed as latest gen WVR missiles can take them out with ease.

To me it’s still up for debate, we will only know with some kind of conflict between the East and the west.

 

[The Accountant]

Sometimes its a good idea to downplay your true capabilities to confuse your enemy.
Losing just 1 Su-30 does not change the fact that Su-30 is still by far the best fighter in south east asia after Rafael. It in cooperates one of the best technologies from France Israel and Russia.



So Russia invested billions of dollars developing a fighter series that are useless in WVR and BVR...?
If you look at all PAF CAP F-16s they carry more AMRAAMs then Sidewinder for a reason.

I am not saying the plane is useless i am just talking about the munerveribility. Russians wanted a big fighter as they already had mig21 and mig 29 in light and medium weight category. But such a hige aircraft have its own problems such as hige rcs less munverablity specially at uigh speed but they are a bomb truck and have mich higher space for sensors

 

[Basel]

To me it’s still up for debate, we will only know with some kind of conflict between the East and the west.

US have tested TVC in detail and found useless in dogfights, one of their instructor tactic was called 40 second boyed its still very effective against any very agile bird.

 

[The Accountant]

US have tested TVC in detail and found useless in dogfights, one of their instructor tactic was called 40 second boyed its still very effective against any very agile bird.

It might be effective but the main issue is cost benefit analysis. It might suit on a 5th generation which is already much maintenance incentive and there is much less possibility of making it aerodynamic for maneuvering therefore TVC is necessity but for 4th generation it is not.

However, cant we see the high failure rates of TVC enables engine plus the maintenance hours requires must be huge.

 

[Avatar]

I cannot believe this thread but I have come to expect no better from our western neighbours. Both F-16s and Su-30MKI are very capable fighters and when it comes to real engagement a lot depends on the circumstances, numbers, pilot skills, AWACs support, etc. Even if we conclude that F-16s are as good as Su-30MKIs (which is entirely untrue), IAF has MKIs in far greater numbers - at least a 3:1 ratio which is more than enough to dominate any large scale engagement on the western front. On the East, it is highly unlikely that China will make the mistake of messing with India because 1) US is looking for any opening to come in and tame the dragon. 2) Both US and India are very important markets for China and unlike our western neighbours they are much more sensitive to the virtues of economic growth than indulging in costly wars over small disputes.

 

[Michael Corleone]

US have tested TVC in detail and found useless in dogfights, one of their instructor tactic was called 40 second boyed its still very effective against any very agile bird.

They did use it in x29 prototype if my memory recalls right. TVC alone wasn’t the reason of it stalling out. You’ve got to give TVC some credit though... it’s one of the main features of the f22 program and I’m sure more future American fighters will incorporate it given aerial warfare is going the direction of unmanned. What kills in TVC isn’t TVC itself but often pilots ability to sustain high Gs, on sukhoi 27 platforms +13 has been reached and sustained however it is fatal and pilots discouraged from such drastic energy bleeds

 

[The Accountant]

I cannot believe this thread but I have come to expect no better from our western neighbours. Both F-16s and Su-30MKI are very capable fighters and when it comes to real engagement a lot depends on the circumstances, numbers, pilot skills, AWACs support, etc. Even if we conclude that F-16s are as good as Su-30MKIs (which is entirely untrue), IAF has MKIs in far greater numbers - at least a 3:1 ratio which is more than enough to dominate any large scale engagement on the western front. On the East, it is highly unlikely that China will make the mistake of messing with India because 1) US is looking for any opening to come in and tame the dragon. 2) Both US and India are very important markets for China and unlike our western neighbours they are much more sensitive to the virtues of economic growth than indulging in costly wars over small disputes.

I was admiring the post till you wrote F16s is as good as MKI. I think you should now worry about whether your MKI can even handle thunders, F16s proved that they are far ahead on 27th Feb.

If 27th Feb was just about AWACS and support then you could have have avenged your aircrafts by making another move but rather you had prepare your missiles as your MKI was outgunned by us.

With 100 PL15 in the arsenal of thunder your all aircrafts are outgunned by both of our thunders and MKIs

They did use it in x29 prototype if my memory recalls right. TVC alone wasn’t the reason of it stalling out. You’ve got to give TVC some credit though... it’s one of the main features of the f22 program and I’m sure more future American fighters will incorporate it given aerial warfare is going the direction of unmanned. What kills in TVC isn’t TVC itself but often pilots ability to sustain high Gs, on sukhoi 27 platforms +13 has been reached and sustained however it is fatal and pilots discouraged from such drastic energy bleeds

TVC was planned on F22 and F35 as airframe is not nimble enough due to fifth generation requirements.

 

[Avatar]

I was admiring the post till you wrote F16s is as good as MKI. I think you should now worry about whether your MKI can even handle thunders, F16s proved that they are far ahead on 27th Feb.

If 27th Feb was just about AWACS and support then you could have have avenged your aircrafts by making another move but rather you had prepare your missiles as your MKI was outgunned by us.

With 100 PL15 in the arsenal of thunder your all aircrafts are outgunned by both of our thunders and MKIs


TVC was planned on F22 and F35 as airframe is not nimble enough due to fifth generation requirements.

What happened to the 2nd Indian plane that PAF claimed to shot down? Was it even an IAF plane? What happened to the pilots?

So called operation "Swift Retort" is nothing but chest thumping by PAF to give some confidence to the qaum. They could not even hit their targets and had to turn around in a flight of fear. In a real engagement, MKI's are like hungry lions over Indian territory and over Pakistani territory it all depends on the situation. Shooting down Mig-21 which is a 1960s era airframe is no achievement to be proud of. The Mig 21 Bisons did their job well and I would not be surprised if many years down the line the true story is revealed about what happened on that fateful day, and it will be received with the same ambiguity as all the previous truths that have been proven to be lies.

 

[The Accountant]

What happened to the 2nd Indian plane that PAF claimed to shot down? Was it even an IAF plane? What happened to the pilots?

So called operation "Swift Retort" is nothing but chest thumping by PAF to give some confidence to the qaum. They could not even hit their targets and had to turn around in a flight of fear. In a real engagement, MKI's are like hungry lions over Indian territory and over Pakistani territory it all depends on the situation. Shooting down Mig-21 which is a 1960s era airframe is no achievement to be proud of. The Mig 21 Bisons did their job well and I would not be surprised if many years down the line the true story is revealed about what happened on that fateful day, and it will be received with the same ambiguity as all the previous truths that have been proven to be lies.

Probably the same thing which happened to your helicopter. Shot dead.

Yes MKI is hugry lion thats why your PM and IAF Chief were saying ,,, Rafael hota tu aisa nahi hota. Even in the official story of IAF, MKI doesnt seems like anything lion, the best thing they can claim of is they ran off successfully if not down by our missiles.

Lolz you poor Indians.

 

[Windjammer]

I cannot believe this thread but I have come to expect no better from our western neighbours. Both F-16s and Su-30MKI are very capable fighters and when it comes to real engagement a lot depends on the circumstances, numbers, pilot skills, AWACs support, etc. Even if we conclude that F-16s are as good as Su-30MKIs (which is entirely untrue), IAF has MKIs in far greater numbers - at least a 3:1 ratio which is more than enough to dominate any large scale engagement on the western front. On the East, it is highly unlikely that China will make the mistake of messing with India because 1) US is looking for any opening to come in and tame the dragon. 2) Both US and India are very important markets for China and unlike our western neighbours they are much more sensitive to the virtues of economic growth than indulging in costly wars over small disputes.

The ratio has always been in IAF's favour but when was the last time IAF actually delivered. Seems you are also suffering from a memory lapse, it's your weekend warriors keeping gullible Indians in the loop by claims of so-called surgical strikes and then cry out for if we had this or that. Your airforce is no better than BSF, while one was protesting to Pakistan against sniper attacks the Agni Pankh Patils waving AMRAAM pieces crying out to America for help...how shameful for one of the larget airforces in the world to indulge in such cry baby actions.....but yea you have an advantage of 3:1 ratio....keep that under your pillow.

What happened to the 2nd Indian plane that PAF claimed to shot down? Was it even an IAF plane? What happened to the pilots?

Ask your weekend warriors who in desperation had to fly the so-called Balakot formation....as if IAF had only two SU-30s in its inventory.

So called operation "Swift Retort" is nothing but chest thumping by PAF to give some confidence to the qaum. They could not even hit their targets and had to turn around in a flight of fear. In a real engagement, MKI's are like hungry lions over Indian territory and over Pakistani territory it all depends on the situation. Shooting down Mig-21 which is a 1960s era airframe is no achievement to be proud of. The Mig 21 Bisons did their job well and I would not be surprised if many years down the line the true story is revealed about what happened on that fateful day, and it will be received with the same ambiguity as all the previous truths that have been proven to be lies.

The reality is that your incompetent airforce feels proud in the fact that it has turned the top Russian air-superiority fighter into an AMRAAM dodger....if that is the only purpose of your so-called hungry lions, they may as well continue to remain as hangar queens....if they are not in the air, no AMRAAMS will be fired and they wouldn't need to bug out at supersonic speeds.

 

[ziaulislam]

I cannot believe this thread but I have come to expect no better from our western neighbours. Both F-16s and Su-30MKI are very capable fighters and when it comes to real engagement a lot depends on the circumstances, numbers, pilot skills, AWACs support, etc. Even if we conclude that F-16s are as good as Su-30MKIs (which is entirely untrue), IAF has MKIs in far greater numbers - at least a 3:1 ratio which is more than enough to dominate any large scale engagement on the western front. On the East, it is highly unlikely that China will make the mistake of messing with India because 1) US is looking for any opening to come in and tame the dragon. 2) Both US and India are very important markets for China and unlike our western neighbours they are much more sensitive to the virtues of economic growth than indulging in costly wars over small disputes.

We know that..we learned that in 1971 that noone is gona help you
Thats what nukes are for.
But issue isnt a long protracted conflict its a short conflict where india failed misreably and IAF chief simply refused an order form PM to respond to pakistan aggression.
"We are outgunned and outranged" the IAF chief replied.."go yourself if you want to"
So Modi has no choice but to call his army command for blastic missles.."are you crazy" said the army chief.

 

[Michael Corleone]

I was admiring the post till you wrote F16s is as good as MKI. I think you should now worry about whether your MKI can even handle thunders, F16s proved that they are far ahead on 27th Feb.

If 27th Feb was just about AWACS and support then you could have have avenged your aircrafts by making another move but rather you had prepare your missiles as your MKI was outgunned by us.

With 100 PL15 in the arsenal of thunder your all aircrafts are outgunned by both of our thunders and MKIs


TVC was planned on F22 and F35 as airframe is not nimble enough due to fifth generation requirements.

True. But f35 TVC is solely for SVTOL version

 

[Haris Ali2140]

True. But f35 TVC is solely for SVTOL version

The life of engines with TVC is low as compared to Non TVC ones. TVC also causes extra stress on the airframe. These causes increase in operational costs. Moreover in front of modern missiles which can pull 40+ Gs TVC won't help much and chances of dogfight are getting lower and lower.

 

[Basel]

They did use it in x29 prototype if my memory recalls right. TVC alone wasn’t the reason of it stalling out. You’ve got to give TVC some credit though... it’s one of the main features of the f22 program and I’m sure more future American fighters will incorporate it given aerial warfare is going the direction of unmanned. What kills in TVC isn’t TVC itself but often pilots ability to sustain high Gs, on sukhoi 27 platforms +13 has been reached and sustained however it is fatal and pilots discouraged from such drastic energy bleeds

They tested TVC on many aircrafts which include F-15 and they turned it down, even in F-22 2D TVC was adopted not 3D.

 

[Windjammer]

Modi doesn't look too impressed with the SU-30 Trishul formation...most likely thinking...''.idiots showboating today, while on 27th February, they were running home like sheep''.