Erdogan Tells Putin He is Sorry Over Death of Russian Su-24 Pilot

[ultron]

Erdogan used Islamic State to kill Kurds. Bad. He will pay for it some day.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

This is a very good move by Turkey, it was a strategic blunder to down the Russian jet no doubt, as you can never trust the US or Europe in any shape or form and taking such an aggressive stand would have meant Turkey being nothing more than a cannon fodder for the west, I'm glad Turkey is mending ties with Russia and with Pakistan hopefully good and working relations with China as well.

 

[T-Rex]

On the other hand, it takes only one side (Turkey) to destroy bilateral relations. But it needs two (Turkey and Russia) to mend the ties.

Inter-state relations are not defined by emotions, especially with respect to great powers (China, Russia and the US), but, it might be difficult for great powers to engage emotionally-vulnerable middle and small countries in a meaningful way. And Turkey's foreign policy has been a disaster in terms of pragmatism over the past few years.

I guess what the Russian side will demand in return for mending the ties will be comprehensive.

1. Formal apology (I guess Erdogan did that in written form on behalf of the state of Turkey), using the exact word of "apology," not simply "sorry."

2. Compensation. (I guess formal apology, which means acceptance of wrong-doing, means compensation).

3. Trial and imprisonment of the person from Turkey who claimed to have led the terrorist group that shot down the Russian pilot while he was descending in Northwestern Syria.

4. Reversal of Syrian policy, giving up on supporting anti-Syrian factions, including Jabhat al-Nusra, which, although Turkey formally put on terror list, still provides assistance.

Mr. Putin has the cards and Erdogan showed he is eager to rebuild the bridges.

I am not sure how much it will help in terms of tourism after Istanbul terror attacks (numerous of them recently), but, in terms of regional geopolitics, it is a welcome development.

But, overall, it is very difficult, and risky, to trust Erdogan; his fundamentalist sectarianism might easily show the face if the domestic politics requires so. And in Turkey, foreign policy seems to be very much conditioned to domestic politics.

You claim that it takes two to mend ties but expecting Turkey to accept all Russian demands. So, what is left for Russia to do? Russia intruded into Turkish air space first, so don't you think Russia should apologize for that? As for Syrian policy what business does Russia have imposing her will upon the majority of Syrians?

 

[ultron]

Russia intruded into Turkish air space first, so don't you think Russia should apologize for that?

What's the evidence of that? And even if it happened for a split second, no need to fire, simply escort them out is the correct course of action.

 

[TaiShang]

You claim that it takes two to mend ties but expecting Turkey to accept all Russian demands. So, what is left for Russia to do? Russia intruded into Turkish air space first, so don't you think Russia should apologize for that? As for Syrian policy what business does Russia have imposing her will upon the majority of Syrians?

The problem with Turkey foreign policy is that it has become a one man's game. Gone are the days when Turkish foreign policy was the turf of experts, diplomats and die-hard realists.

When you entrust the entire foreign policy in the hands of a sectarian and emotionally unstable strongman, the result will be illogical decision making that costly for the nation. What did Turkey gain from shooting down Russian jet? If it was the right action, why not keep it but suddenly a letter of apology? Did Russia give in one inch in its policy toward Turkey? No.

Turkey cut the relations with Israel or Russia not because it was a decision carefully planned by foreign policy diplomats, but because the Palace desired so. Today Turkey (The Palace) has made peace with Israel and Russia for the same reason. The Palace wanted so. Where is the national interest here?

Obviously, such an unprofessional approach will throw the country from one extreme (die hard enemy Israel) to another extreme (honeymoon Israel). Both are unhealthy and unfeasible.

Do you think, what I am able to see, the experts in foreign departments are unable to see? They perfectly know who they are playing with and Turkey's president is not a difficult person to handle, honestly. He is way vulnerable to blackmailing as he has lots of skeletons in his closet.

And do not tell me he is the leader of the ummah or similar abstract lunatic idealism.

 

[T-Rex]

The problem with Turkey foreign policy is that it has become a one man's game. Gone are the days when Turkish foreign policy was the turf of experts, diplomats and die-hard realists.

When you entrust the entire foreign policy in the hands of a sectarian and emotionally unstable strongman, the result will be illogical decision making that costly for the nation. What did Turkey gain from shooting down Russian jet? If it was the right action, why not keep it but suddenly a letter of apology? Did Russia give in one inch in its policy toward Turkey? No.

Turkey cut the relations with Israel or Russia not because it was a decision carefully planned by foreign policy diplomats, but because the Palace desired so. Today Turkey (The Palace) has made peace with Israel and Russia for the same reason. The Palace wanted so. Where is the national interest here?

Obviously, such an unprofessional approach will throw the country from one extreme (die hard enemy Israel) to another extreme (honeymoon Israel). Both are unhealthy and unfeasible.

Do you think, what I am able to see, the experts in foreign departments are unable to see? They perfectly know who they are playing with and Turkey's president is not a difficult person to handle, honestly. He is way vulnerable to blackmailing as he has lots of skeletons in his closet.

And do not tell me he is the leader of the ummah or similar abstract lunatic idealism.

It's peculiar when a blind supporter of Putin labels someone he dislikes as 'strongman'. What is Putin? How do you think Russia functions? Most in the west use exactly the same term 'emotionally unstable strongman' for your favourite Russian despot. Erdogan does not have the means to threaten Russia with a nuclear strike and that makes all the difference, the terms you have used such as 'emotionally unstable strongman', 'unprofessional approach', 'die hard realists' are all just hogwash. Tell your strongman to dismantle his thousands of nukes and you'll see where his professional approach goes.

 

[TaiShang]

It's peculiar when a blind supporter of Putin labels someone he dislikes as 'strongman'. What is Putin? How do you think Russia functions? Most in the west use exactly the same term 'emotionally unstable strongman' for your favourite Russian despot. Erdogan does not have the means to threaten Russia with a nuclear strike and that makes all the difference, the terms you have used such as 'emotionally unstable strongman', 'unprofessional approach', 'die hard realists' are all just hogwash. Tell your strongman to dismantle his thousands of nukes and you'll see where his professional approach goes.

Foreign policy is done based on the real capabilities. Hence, if you have nukes, you have nukes; if you do not have, you do not have. It is unrealistic to attempt strategic analysis based on suggestions such as "dismantle all your nukes."

The fact is that Turkey did not have nukes ten years ago, as well, but it had a realistic foreign policy. Now, under this 'unstable strongman,' Turkey did not become more capable, but more unreliable and unstable. So, the problem has not been Turkey's capabilities, it is a leadership problem.

Putin has done what he thinks the best by utilizing the means he has under his control. That's realism. In the end, some worked for him, some did not; but Russia is not less influential country today than it was before. So, overall, he did quite well.

Turkey, on the other hand, has become a pariah of international society due to the Palace which attempts to run the country's economy, foreign policy, education etc. single-handedly.

Foreign policy is a profession. It needs educated and experienced people, not some agitator who mixes foreign policy with domestic policy.

If I am Putin, I would like the current president of Turkey to stay there forever, because he is easy to be manipulated and to go extreme one way or another.

 

[T-Rex]

Foreign policy is done based on the real capabilities. Hence, if you have nukes, you have nukes; if you do not have, you do not have. It is unrealistic to attempt strategic analysis based on suggestions such as "dismantle all your nukes."

The fact is that Turkey did not have nukes ten years ago, as well, but it had a realistic foreign policy. Now, under this 'unstable strongman,' Turkey did not become more capable, but more unreliable and unstable. So, the problem has not been Turkey's capabilities, it is a leadership problem.

Putin has done what he thinks the best by utilizing the means he has under his control. That's realism. In the end, some worked for him, some did not; but Russia is not less influential country today than it was before. So, overall, he did quite well.

Turkey, on the other hand, has become a pariah of international society due to the Palace which attempts to run the country's economy, foreign policy, education etc. single-handedly.

Foreign policy is a profession. It needs educated and experienced people, not some agitator who mixes foreign policy with domestic policy.

If I am Putin, I would like the current president of Turkey to stay there forever, because he is easy to be manipulated and to go extreme one way or another.

If you have thousands of nukes you can nakedly invade a country and still that'll look very 'professional' and that's the kind of professionalism Putin has shown. So, you can brag all day about how professional your despots are but the truth remains their so-called professionalism depends on those thousands of nukes. In a nutshell they are ordinary leaders portrayed by their sycophants as supermen.

 

[TaiShang]

If you have thousands of nukes you can nakedly invade a country and still that'll look very 'professional' and that's the kind of professionalism Putin has shown. So, you can brag all day about how professional your despots are but the truth remains their so-called professionalism depends on the those thousands of nukes. In a nutshell they are ordinary leaders portrayed by their sycophants as supermen.

My friend, this is exactly how the international relations are structured. And that's what separates a statesman from laymen like us. We may have altruistic concerns, but, state mechanism cannot. You act based on your capacity and interests.

State relations are result oriented. They are judged by their accomplishments and the means used to get there are not that important.

I see Mr. Putin using his national means better than Mr. Erdogan has done. It is because Putin has an army of foreign policy experts. This was the case in Turkey, as far as I know from my studies, until the Palace took all the powers and foreign department (and diplomats) were ridiculed as being elites or monsieurs.

Mr. Erdogan may be a good Mayor, but is not a capable statesman. Look where he took his country. As an IR person who studied 20th century revolutionaries, including Ataturk who constructed an amazing foreign policy out of a weak country, this is very instructive to me.