Egypt Mig-35 Fighters Equipped with the EW Pod MSP-418K

[The SC]

The Electronic Warfare Pod MSP-418K is of the latest jamming and countermeasures systems
MSP-418K is a Russian lightweight, high performance jammer for the MiG-29/35. It uses DRFM (Digital RF Memory) technology and covers the G-J-band range (4-18 GHz). The pod's weight is 150kg, dimensions are 230 x 225 x 3,800mm. It has 120° azimuth, 60° elevation coverage.

​

Quadratic paralysis of missiles and radars
It wages an electronic war on air defense systems and radar guided missiles
It uses DRFM technology and is the first Russian Pod to use this technique
The technology allows the Pod to transmit misleading information about the aircraft's location, speed and altitude.. It creates imaginary targets to mislead enemy radars and missiles

It protects fighters from surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles

Broadband G-J bands are used to detect and disturb/jam radar signals
Coverage: 120 degrees horizontally, 60 degrees vertically

Light weight (150 kg), easy draw and mount

 

[Gomig-21]

Pretty cool, but it's hard to tell if the multiple imagery targets move away from the MiG or stay near it. They would certainly need to move away to be effective. It looks like they did after the MiG turned and they turned with it but then it went in a different direction and the missile chased the images. They'd have to create a safe distance between the aircraft and the incoming missile, for sure.

It's quite the viscous cycle. The people creating, building and improving the weapons that are meant to destroy targets are paving the way for those creating and building and improving the weapons that are meant to jam, trick and defeat those weapons. So the first guys goes back to the drawing table to improve and build better weapons that can get past these countermeasures and the cycle repeats itself.

We haven't really seen visual proof of successful ECM systems like we have with actual AAM and SAM. If they use drones and unmanned aircraft to test those, they should also use them to test these ECM's, instead of just CGI videos.

 

[Sinnerman108]

How will this work with Western equipment ?

 

[Chhatrapati]

How will this work with Western equipment ?

 

[Gomig-21]

How will this work with Western equipment ?

They'll probably only be used on the 50 MiG-35's Egypt is getting. Will they defeat Western missiles? Remains to be seen.

 

[The SC]

Pretty cool, but it's hard to tell if the multiple imagery targets move away from the MiG or stay near it. They would certainly need to move away to be effective. It looks like they did after the MiG turned and they turned with it but then it went in a different direction and the missile chased the images. They'd have to create a safe distance between the aircraft and the incoming missile, for sure.

It's quite the viscous cycle. The people creating, building and improving the weapons that are meant to destroy targets are paving the way for those creating and building and improving the weapons that are meant to jam, trick and defeat those weapons. So the first guys goes back to the drawing table to improve and build better weapons that can get past these countermeasures and the cycle repeats itself.

We haven't really seen visual proof of successful ECM systems like we have with actual AAM and SAM. If they use drones and unmanned aircraft to test those, they should also use them to test these ECM's, instead of just CGI videos.

They do that all the time because of the US/ Usrael advances in EW and ECM.. this system in particular is the equivalent of the one (DEWS) found on the latest F-15SA.. they have the same capability to create phantom/ghost targets and even have them move in a different/opposite direction to the fighter after it escapes from this cover..

 

[Sinnerman108]

They'll probably only be used on the 50 MiG-35's Egypt is getting. Will they defeat Western missiles? Remains to be seen.

NO,
that was not my question.
@Frogman

I want to know, if 2 Migs and 2 F-16s and 2 Rafales are to perform a mission
how will information sharing take place between them all.

 

[The SC]

NO,
that was not my question.
@Frogman

I want to know, if 2 Migs and 2 F-16s and 2 Rafales are to perform a mission
how will information sharing take place between them all.

The F-16s and Rafales can share info through link-16 and they can both share info with the Migs through the AWACS platforms or through ground operators and through the C4I or IADS.. with still more possibilities..

 

[Frogman]

I want to know, if 2 Migs and 2 F-16s and 2 Rafales are to perform a mission
how will information sharing take place between them all.

The Raffy and -16 won't have any problems sharing sensory information directly with each other or through AWAC platforms which is the E-2C in Egyptian service. Since all three have Link-16.

The MiG will be out of that loop unless it sees what the others already see. It will rely on a much longer and more vulnerable process to share sensory information effectively. It will have to involve some form of ground operators and won't be in real time. Not ideal at all.

 

[Gomig-21]

They do that all the time because of the US/ Usrael advances in EW and ECM.. this system in particular is the equivalent of the one (DEWS) found on the latest F-15SA.. they have the same capability to create phantom/ghost targets and even have them move in a different/opposite direction to the fighter after it escapes from this cover..

It's definitely a good thing. I guess the main difference between this pod and the ALQ239 is the latter is built-in to the F-15's, whereas this thing uses up a pylon that can otherwise be used for an additional ordinance of any kind. But overall, this MiG-29M/M2/35 already has quite a bit of protective gadgetry, from the nacelle- mounted EW (I guess you can call them "fixed pods") to the MAWS to the LWS. It's basically the most advanced MiG to date and already has all these excellent built-in features.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The Raffy and -16 won't have any problems sharing sensory information directly with each other or through AWAC platforms which is the E-2C in Egyptian service. Since all three have Link-16.

The MiG will be out of that loop unless it sees what the others already see. It will rely on a much longer and more vulnerable process to share sensory information effectively. It will have to involve some form of ground operators and won't be in real time. Not ideal at all.

Agreed,
Real Time was the most important design aspect.
Do we have full details on Link 16 ? Encryption and other low level aspects of the protocol ?
What I want to understand is how secure is Link 16 should the OEM decide to go naughty.
And what is the opportunity to enhance it if required.

 

[The SC]

The Raffy and -16 won't have any problems sharing sensory information directly with each other or through AWAC platforms which is the E-2C in Egyptian service. Since all three have Link-16.

The MiG will be out of that loop unless it sees what the others already see. It will rely on a much longer and more vulnerable process to share sensory information effectively. It will have to involve some form of ground operators and won't be in real time. Not ideal at all.

The Mig-21s in 1973 had only the operators to guide it and it was done in real time.. today the ground operators are linked to the C4i and to the planes, so real time communication is assured with the Mig-35s..Russian or Chinese AWACS would be a good addition, if not the SU-35 will play that role with the Migs.. This is why they are coming to EAF..

 

[Frogman]

The Mig-21s in 1973 had only the operators to guide it and it was done in real time..

It's been fifty years and two generations of fighters have been built since then. Network centric warfare wasn't even a thing till the 90s.

today the ground operators are linked to the C4i and to the planes, so real time communication is assured with the Mig-35s

Communication and sharing of sensory information are two different things. Simply saying C4i does not mean or solve anything. It's the computerisation and networkong of command and control, not a magic wand. It doesn't solve networking issues, they will be present there too since that also relies on Link-16.

Russian or Chinese AWACS would be a good addition, if not the SU-35 will play that role with the Migs.. This is why they are coming to EAF..

Do we have full details on Link 16 ? Encryption and other low level aspects of the protocol ?
What I want to understand is how secure is Link 16 should the OEM decide to go naughty.
And what is the opportunity to enhance it if required.

I would imagine we don't have the full details. Anything technical to do with networking and security is often classified. Above my level of understanding anyway.

 

[The SC]

It's been fifty years and two generations of fighters have been built since then. Network centric warfare wasn't even a thing till the 90s.



Communication and sharing of sensory information are two different things. Simply saying C4i does not mean or solve anything. It's the computerisation and networkong of command and control, not a magic wand. It doesn't solve networking issues, they will be present there too since that also relies on Link-16.







I would imagine we don't have the full details. Anything technical to do with networking and security is often classified. Above my level of understanding anyway.

Egypt is building its new C4i network systems.. so who knows what they will integrate in it or not..
Ground control share information through communication..they give enemy positions, direction and number of fighters..

 

[The SC]

It's been fifty years and two generations of fighters have been built since then. Network centric warfare wasn't even a thing till the 90s.



Communication and sharing of sensory information are two different things. Simply saying C4i does not mean or solve anything. It's the computerisation and networkong of command and control, not a magic wand. It doesn't solve networking issues, they will be present there too since that also relies on Link-16.







I would imagine we don't have the full details. Anything technical to do with networking and security is often classified. Above my level of understanding anyway.

Here is something to meditate on Brother.. think it through and tell me if the Egyptian Mig-35s aren't a precaution..:

GaN-Based AESAs Enable U.S. Navy’s Next-Generation Jammer

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/gan-based-aesas-enable-u-s-navys-next-generation-jammer.506948/