Egypt in negotiations for Su-35 and Mig-35?

[Frogman]

Egypt is reportedly in negotiations with Robsoboronexport for the sale of MIG-35 and SU-35 jet fighters according to an article published several months ago by Egypt's state Alahram news outlet.

In the article Foresight and fighter-jets (Nkrumah, 2013) the author claims that Egypt is in negotiations over the possible sale of MIG-35 and SU-35 jet fighters as a result of Washington's decision to delay the delivery of US F-16 jet fighters (the article was written before military aid was cut).

Nkrumah writes: " In a separate but related development, Rosoboronexport, in technical consultations with the Egyptian Defence Ministry, hinted at the possible supply of Mikoyan MiG-29M2 and Sukhoi Su-35 fighter aircraft, according to the Russian news agency Interfax-AVN.

“We made a presentation of the MiG-29M2 and Su-35 aircraft for the Egyptian Defence Ministry. Technical consultations are underway,”Sergei Kornev, head of the Department of Air Force Special Gear and Services Export at Rosoboronexport, announced at the Farnborough International Airshow near London, much to the consternation of Washington.

"Moscow is willing to supply Egypt with MIG-35 and Su-35 fighter jets, which will be delivered to the Russian Air Force in large numbers within the next three years, after resolution of some technical problems found during final tests, said Russian Deputy Defence Minister Yury Borisov on Wednesday.

Even so, some observers believe Russia’s offer is implausible. “There are problems with completion of the state order for these models,” Borisov conceded. Still, the Russian offer raised eyebrows."


The full article: Foresight-and-fighter-jets - Al-Ahram Weekly

Su-35:Sukhoi Su-35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mig-35:Mikoyan MiG-35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Do you guys think this is credible?
Do you think this would be a good step for the EAF?
What do you think this means for the future of the EAF?
How would such a deal effect the relationship between the US and Egypt?
What would this mean for the possible purchase of the JF-17 (Egypt's new massive military industrial complex which is due to open this month reportedly houses a large assembly line)?

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Egypt should go for any of these two, and the business will take care of itself

The Eggys may also need to look into the Kilo class subs as well

 

[Arabian Legend]

Egypt should head for the EF or the French Rafale.

 

[Frogman]

Egypt should head for the EF or the French Rafale.

The Rafale was already offered to Egypt and underwent trials there. It was rejected due to unit price mainly and its ground mission orientation. Since the EU has suspended all arms trade with Egypt it may not be such a great idea to start a fighter jet venture with them or member states.

Egypt should go for any of these two, and the business will take care of itself

The Eggys may also need to look into the Kilo class subs as well

There were (long and painstaking) negotiations with the Russians over Kilo class subs, whether these negotiations succeeded, stalled or have ended is unknown. The Type 209 deal suggests that it was the latter. Submarines aren't viewed as a major requirement in the Egyptian Armed Forces.

 

[Doritos11]

Both I agree if the budget can hold that.

 

[Zarvan]

@Frogman Egypt needs fighter jets with BVR and if they can get that planes from Russia that is good but they should. Try to get them with TOT

 

[Frogman]

@Frogman Egypt needs fighter jets with BVR and if they can get that planes from Russia that is good but they should. Try to get them with TOT

Again, the majority of Egypt's aircraft inventory (excluding most 3rd gen aircraft) are BVR capable. Whether ToT would be included is yet to be seen.

 

[Doritos11]

Again, the majority of Egypt's aircraft inventory (excluding most 3rd gen aircraft) are BVR capable. Whether ToT would be included is yet to be seen.

AIM 7 might be beyond visual range when firing but its not viewed as BVR neither is its range that much, Russia can give missiles with double the range of AIM 7 or more & Maybe semi-active radar.

 

[Frogman]

AIM 7 might be beyond visual range when firing but its not viewed as BVR neither is its range that much, Russia can give missiles with double the range of AIM 7 or more & Maybe semi-active radar.

The common misconception is that Egyptian F-16s have no BVR capability whatsoever, the AIM-7 illustrates my point about whether Egyptian F-16s "have BVR technology". Whether it is adequate or not is up to the EAF. Personally, I don't think its acceptable to not have the AIM-120C/D on the F-16 or an equivalent (there may be one), but that's just my opinion.

 

[Doritos11]

The common misconception is that Egyptian F-16s have no BVR capability whatsoever, the AIM-7 illustrates my point about whether Egyptian F-16s "have BVR technology". Whether it is adequate or not is up to the EAF. Personally, I don't think its acceptable to not have the AIM-120C/D on the F-16 or an equivalent (there may be one), but that's just my opinion.

The F16 has nuclear capability as well, but it does not matter what kind of weaponry could be used with the F16, what matters is what weaponry does the US export to this country. I know the CISMOA story but theres no confirmation for it, it just gets repeated by people.

 

[SQ8]

The common misconception is that Egyptian F-16s have no BVR capability whatsoever, the AIM-7 illustrates my point about whether Egyptian F-16s "have BVR technology". Whether it is adequate or not is up to the EAF. Personally, I don't think its acceptable to not have the AIM-120C/D on the F-16 or an equivalent (there may be one), but that's just my opinion.

That depends on Egypt having an Iran like neighbour so that Israel(via its lobbies in the US) okay's the purchase of AIM-120(which will required software updates for aircraft in the Peace Vector I-V sales and none for the later purchases).
The other option is for Egypt to request the integration of an alternative BVR system like the Chileans for their F-16s(Derby, Python-4) but the only viable system available seems to be the MICA or Meteor if permitted. The latter will have to wait till later but it is an excellent choice and BaE is well equipped to provide the upgrade which should be approved by Egypt's erstwhile colonial rulers the Brits.

That being said, the Su-35 or Mig-35 would definitely give the Russians the chance to re-enter Egypt as the primary supplier and allow Egypt to replace its obsolete Mig-21MF, F-4,Mirage-V and F-7 aircraft with modern systems. This does however signify that the assertions held by many Pakistani members on a "high chance" of a JF-17/FC-1 Purchase and production by Egypt may be unfounded and as such the FC-1 may not be what the Egyptian AF Air staff want.

 

[Frogman]

The F16 has nuclear capability as well, but it does not matter what kind of weaponry could be used with the F16, what matters is what weaponry does the US export to this country.

Yep, I agree. It's just that there's a lot of people who think just because the Egyptian F-16 isn't armed with the AIM-120 means that the Egyptian F-16 has no BVR tech and if armed with a medium to long range AA missile the darn thing wouldn't work.

I know the CISMOA story but theres no confirmation for it, it just gets repeated by people.

If you're looking for concrete confirmation about a subject or information regarding the Egyptian military then you're going to have a bad time. One particular example that is used all the time is the SA-15, the SA-15 was delivered to Egypt in 2005 and showed up in a air defence demonstration seven years later. The Egyptian military isn't big on transparency or PR. You should probably look up India's run in with CISMOA if you want to get further information about it.

 

[Frogman]

That depends on Egypt having an Iran like neighbour so that Israel(via its lobbies in the US) okay's the purchase of AIM-120(which will required software updates for aircraft in the Peace Vector I-V sales and none for the later purchases).

If memory serves the only request AIPAC vehemently opposed was that of the F-15. The request for the AIM-120 was turned down because of CISMOA (if I'm wrong about this then feel free to correct me).

All (remaining) F-16s from Peace Vector I-IV underwent modifications bringing them up to B40/42 standards under Peace Vector V. Its likely the needed software modifications would have taken place then.

From F-16.net

Together with the 5th order, Egypt decided to modify older F-16C/D aircraft in-country through Engineering Change Proposals detailing requirements for the installation and integration of HARPOON and GBU-15 weapons capability, aircraft radar modifications and other related elements of program support. Principal contractors for the upgrade program will be McDonnell Douglas, St. Louis, Mo.; Rockwell International, Tactical Systems Division, Duluth, Ga. and the Westinghouse Electronic Systems Group, Baltimore, M.D.

All aircraft in the Block 15 and 32 series have been or will be upgraded with most Block 40/42 features, thus retaining the Pratt&Whitney F-100 engines and the small inlet ducts. As a consequence, every Egyptian F-16 (Block 15, 32 or 40) can accommodate the LANTIRN-system (they have been modified with the holographic HUD) giving them full autonomous laser weapon handling (i.e. GBU-15's, AGM-65D's). Together with the 6th deal, a batch of AGM-88 missiles was also delivered for usage on the block 40 airframes.

The other option is for Egypt to request the integration of an alternative BVR system like the Chileans for their F-16s(Derby, Python-4) but the only viable system available seems to be the MICA or Meteor if permitted. The latter will have to wait till later but it is an excellent choice and BaE is well equipped to provide the upgrade which should be approved by Egypt's erstwhile colonial rulers the Brits.

The MICA is the more realistic option (some believe it has already happened) as it already serves on the Egyptian Mirage-2000, others believe that with the help of TAI a Chinese weapon system was integrated (Maybe hogwash).

That being said, the Su-35 or Mig-35 would definitely give the Russians the chance to re-enter Egypt as the primary supplier and allow Egypt to replace its obsolete Mig-21MF, F-4,Mirage-V and F-7 aircraft with modern systems.

The F-4 has been fully retired

This does however signify that the assertions held by many Pakistani members on a "high chance" of a JF-17/FC-1 Purchase and production by Egypt may be unfounded and as such the FC-1 may not be what the Egyptian AF Air staff want.

To me the JF-17 seems much more realistic than talk of Mig-35s or Su-35s. Its also more desirable considering the Egyptian Armed Forces is looking to reignite its aviation industry and with ToT/ToPT virtually a given with the JF-17 (plus the improving relationship with China is +) it seems to me at least a better deal than off the shelf fighters with limited ToT (knowing the Russians). These negotiations may just be a political move for all we know.

 

[SQ8]

If memory serves the only request AIPAC vehemently opposed was that of the F-15. The request for the AIM-120 was turned down because of CISMOA (if I'm wrong about this then feel free to correct me).

The MICA is the more realistic option (some believe it has already happened) as it already serves on the Egyptian Mirage-2000, others believe that with the help of TAI a Chinese weapon system was integrated (Maybe hogwash).

To me the JF-17 seems much more realistic than talk of Mig-35s or Su-35s. Its also more desirable considering the Egyptian Armed Forces is looking to reignite its aviation industry and with ToT/ToPT virtually a given with the JF-17 (plus the improving relationship with China is +) it seems to me at least a better deal than off the shelf fighters with limited ToT (knowing the Russians). These negotiations may just be a political move for all we know.

I believe you may be right with CISMOA being the main hurdle(although it was widely rumoured that the AIM-7 capability was because of Israel but that makes little sense as Jordan has AIM-120's although Iraq does not)

The MICA is a good option but that depends on whether the Americans allow Thales to add that capability. Apart from Israel(Even TAI needs codes to be released) there is no other country that can perform complete changes to the F-16 airframe freely. I certainly doubt the Chinese rumours since if anyone would have done it first; it would have been Pakistan and I can tell you with surety that breaking into a F-16 is no easy feat.

 

[Zarvan]

Again, the majority of Egypt's aircraft inventory (excluding most 3rd gen aircraft) are BVR capable. Whether ToT would be included is yet to be seen.

You mean all F-16 carry BVR and if yes which BVR you Egypt uses ? @Oscar