Egypt Golden Parade: Lessons for Pakistan

[hussain0216]

celebrating pharaohs? is this sisi guy even muslim? and what lesson is there for Pakistan? We are a Muslim state, we celebrate our Islamic heritage. we don't know nor care to know any chankyaas or ashokaas or assholaas or any other chootiaas with a name ending aas!

It reminds me of something the Shah of Iran did

 

[Varunastra]

History is our history regardless

It just doesn't define everything about us as a people

At the same time we don't want some Uday from some eastern jungle pretending he is from our land

Going personal now are we? Fine won't go further but food for thought, If you won't accept and revere the Uday from the western jungle, the Uday from the eastern jungle will and the world will accept gracefully

 

[Varunastra]

This is not a conclusion I made in one day. For decades I have read and considered this subject because I saw this emerging identity crisis way back in 1980s informed by my personal experiance as a young man with conflicted backgrounds.

To begin with identity is not about 'looks'. if that were the case the entire European world including the wider west like USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc who all are of mostly European extraction would have one identity. Nobody calls Trump a German. He is American [whatever that means] despite being grandson of German migrant. A Englishman, a German, a Irishman, a Dane, a Swede etc presently exactly the same look, the same culture, the same attire, the same religion etc but you can't say they don't have separate identities. Indeed even artificial identities like Canuks and Yanks have evolved divided by a ruler straight line on the map dividing the same geography.

The issue is in Pakistan is there are identities. Solid identities. Punjabi, Sindhi are solid examples. In UK we have four national identities - English, Welsh, Scots, Northern Irish combined into UNITED Kingdom. The Norther Irish overlap into Republic of Ireland but that does not denude United Kingdom in anyway. These four identities are celebrated All are Christian. But Christianity alone is not the identity because so are the Germans, the French or even Russians. Being Christians is not what makes UK. Being English. Welsh, Scot, Ulster is what makes UK.

Similiary Pakistan is a federation. Pakhtuns, Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi each with their own province. Indeed the original blueprint of Pakistan alludes to this from 1933. This is what informed the making of the acronym Pakistan.

View attachment 731133

However after 73 years Pakistan is still a ship lost in the sea of identity politics. The main reason has been the experiances of the minority 4% being pushed on the majority 96% which means today the majoirity is even infected by this malaise.

Like I said before the schizophrenia of the minority migrants has been inflicted on the majority. To give a simple example. If I am living in Patanagar, a Bihari colony in Karachi how will I justify my migration? Economics? Religion? Ethnicity?

I am actually a Indian Bihari in ever way. In my tradition, in my historical tradition etc. The only strand that I can cite to justify and give beef to my identity so that India is the other is by using religion. Take away my religion and I am a Indian. Thus the need to stress religion as a identity.

This is why it is well known fact that Indian migrants tended to be socially liberal but voted for left of right conservative religious parties. Religion thus became the main identity after 1947. The flaw in that was evidently clear. There are 40 Muslim countries. Islam is not the exclusive preserve of Pakistan.

The way forward should have been each province to celebrate and own t's own glorious history and then contribute to the national tapesty as Pakistan. All threads woven together. It is still not too late.

By the way there is no such thing as Swiss or Indian ethnic group. Both are made of differant 'bricks' put together. Below is one of the most stable, long lived and prosperous countries of Europe called Switzerland with a strong identity and recognition across the globe.


View attachment 731138

However there is no such thing as "Swiss". They are just mashup of Germans, French, Italians, French etc.


View attachment 731139

It's a hard line to tread, show all provinces as being different can lead to separatism or supremecy. The only way for diverse nations is to amalgamate all provincial history into a strong national history keeping ofcourse the fact of the origins intact. Then even migrants can add or absorb into the pie, but each group should be ready enough to share his history and their achievements with their countrymen and not attach it to only his history.

 

[313ghazi]

The only people obsessed with identity politics are the liberals and ethnofacist political parties like MQM, ANP, PTM.

The rest of us are more concerned with nation building not labels. @Indus Pakistan gives a great example actually.

Britain is made up of 4 different countries, where Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were subjugated to English rule. The English themselves are a mongol nation made up of invaders including the Romans, Danes, Frank's. The original kingdoms of England are ancient history.

The Welsh recently began to teach thier kids thier language, the cultural movements of Gaelic and Cornish are virtually non existent, aulde English is a special subject in a few language schools in Universities. Latin is dead,the monarchy is practically dead.

Britain does not obsess with its past. It looks at the here and now and into the future. Discussion of 4000 year old Britain is non existent in conversation around identity.

Only amongst a select group of Pakistani people is this non starter constantly being presented as significant.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Pakistanis consider Islam is the founding of their country only few that care about the Indus Valley civilization

The prophet was proud of his grandfather and great grandfather who also committed shirk

All Pakistanis care about IVC.

Hindustani misappropriation of the IVC has complicated the issue and caused many Pakistanis to develop an aversion. It's purely psychological.

Pakistan should reclaim what "the secular republic of India" has culturally misappropriated.

 

[MuhammedAli]

Yes egypt is celebrating the pharoahs who committed shirk... By all means if u feel you should follow.

But know that anyone who follows the pharoahs in deed will also follow him in fate...

U barbaric mullah u dont know civilisation u mullahs are ruining good image of Islam with ur Quranic teaching.

We need proof to celebrate birthday of prophet of Allah. Did prophet do it? Did Sahabah celebrate it? Ha there you go. Islam was so simple you mullahs made it complex with innovations.

We the civilised and educated people n sophisticated people dont need approval of quran hadith . N if prophet or sahabah did the Mummies what egyptians did. Our dushmani is with Prophet Muhammad and his birthday celebrations. Backward Mullah complicating simple beautiful Deen of Islam with Milad ... Show us evidence.

 

[Robbie]

This is not a conclusion I made in one day. For decades I have read and considered this subject because I saw this emerging identity crisis way back in 1980s informed by my personal experiance as a young man with conflicted backgrounds.

To begin with identity is not about 'looks'. if that were the case the entire European world including the wider west like USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc who all are of mostly European extraction would have one identity. Nobody calls Trump a German. He is American [whatever that means] despite being grandson of German migrant. A Englishman, a German, a Irishman, a Dane, a Swede etc presently exactly the same look, the same culture, the same attire, the same religion etc but you can't say they don't have separate identities. Indeed even artificial identities like Canuks and Yanks have evolved divided by a ruler straight line on the map dividing the same geography.

The issue is in Pakistan is there are identities. Solid identities. Punjabi, Sindhi are solid examples. In UK we have four national identities - English, Welsh, Scots, Northern Irish combined into UNITED Kingdom. The Norther Irish overlap into Republic of Ireland but that does not denude United Kingdom in anyway. These four identities are celebrated All are Christian. But Christianity alone is not the identity because so are the Germans, the French or even Russians. Being Christians is not what makes UK. Being English. Welsh, Scot, Ulster is what makes UK.

Similiary Pakistan is a federation. Pakhtuns, Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi each with their own province. Indeed the original blueprint of Pakistan alludes to this from 1933. This is what informed the making of the acronym Pakistan.

View attachment 731133

However after 73 years Pakistan is still a ship lost in the sea of identity politics. The main reason has been the experiances of the minority 4% being pushed on the majority 96% which means today the majoirity is even infected by this malaise.

Like I said before the schizophrenia of the minority migrants has been inflicted on the majority. To give a simple example. If I am living in Patanagar, a Bihari colony in Karachi how will I justify my migration? Economics? Religion? Ethnicity?

I am actually a Indian Bihari in ever way. In my tradition, in my historical tradition etc. The only strand that I can cite to justify and give beef to my identity so that India is the other is by using religion. Take away my religion and I am a Indian. Thus the need to stress religion as a identity.

This is why it is well known fact that Indian migrants tended to be socially liberal but voted for left of right conservative religious parties. Religion thus became the main identity after 1947. The flaw in that was evidently clear. There are 40 Muslim countries. Islam is not the exclusive preserve of Pakistan.

The way forward should have been each province to celebrate and own t's own glorious history and then contribute to the national tapesty as Pakistan. All threads woven together. It is still not too late.

By the way there is no such thing as Swiss or Indian ethnic group. Both are made of differant 'bricks' put together. Below is one of the most stable, long lived and prosperous countries of Europe called Switzerland with a strong identity and recognition across the globe.


View attachment 731138

However there is no such thing as "Swiss". They are just mashup of Germans, French, Italians, French etc.


View attachment 731139

Actually, you will find that Pakistani Punjabis are now some of the most Islam obsessed. Perhaps their experience of partition played a role in it. Perhaps the muhajirs passed their hatred of India to them. Regardless, today, they are the most vociferous of the lot who want to disassociate from the land and live in borrowed glories and identities of other Musims.

You will find in rural and south punjab some people who changed their car's license plate to Arabic. The ones who most attend madrassas and support terror groups. In fact, if you look at Pakistanis who have committed religion-related crimes (bombings, etc) in the West, almost all of them were from Pakistan's Punjab region with notable inclusion of Mirpuris.

 

[Menace2Society]

The lesson is always always treasure your history, your journey, your pain, your glory because only you can tell that story to the world.

Do this and you will achieve your tao and everything will fall into place.

We have such a beautiful past, once I spent the whole night researching our past on wiki and I shed a tear over how lost we have become.

My father taught me none of this, I had to teach him and open his eyes.

 

[Menace2Society]

Actually, you will find that Pakistani Punjabis are now some of the most Islam obsessed. Perhaps their experience of partition played a role in it. Perhaps the muhajirs passed their hatred of India to them. Regardless, today, they are the most vociferous of the lot who want to disassociate from the land and live in borrowed glories and identities of other Musims.

You will find in rural and south punjab some people who changed their car's license plate to Arabic. The ones who most attend madrassas and support terror groups. In fact, if you look at Pakistanis who have committed religion-related crimes (bombings, etc) in the West, almost all of them were from Pakistan's Punjab region with notable inclusion of Mirpuris.

Its a lack of coherent universal education. Does Pakistan history lesson cover anything profund? Why does every Pakistani after turning 20 starts looking up to Saudis and Turkey? Looks like these countries make an effort to preserve their past and our kids join in like its their history.

I have known many arabs and they will candidly say we have borrowed their history and religion. Do you know how humiliating that is? I am no "yes boss" person, I am not a bottom of society hanging on here and its embarrasing. The elders are the same and our Pakistani youth on the main here are a totally lost cause, the dominant culture being faith based which just confuses outsiders even more. We will correct this but we need Pakistanis to mature and become more pragmatic. Undo the brainwashing and insecurity.

 

[Iltutmish]

I have known many arabs and they will candidly say we have borrowed their history and religion.

Islam is not an Arab religion. Why are you impressed by these low lives neither knowing Islam nor its history? These hypernationalist Arabs never managed to do something genuine or remotely great in the last 600 years. Whereas Indo-Pak Muslims created empires and the best economy know to men.

Arabs shit on their Islamic history, why should we do the same by celebrating random pagans?

the dominant culture being faith based

That’s the very reason why Pakistan exists today. Or what was the purpose of creating Pakistan? Having a drink without Hindus?

 

[Robbie]

Its a lack of coherent universal education. Does Pakistan history lesson cover anything profund? Why does every Pakistani after turning 20 starts looking up to Saudis and Turkey? Looks like these countries make an effort to preserve their past and our kids join in like its their history.

I have known many arabs and they will candidly say we have borrowed their history and religion. Do you know how humiliating that is? I am no "yes boss" person, I am not a bottom of society hanging on here and its embarrasing. The elders are the same and our Pakistani youth on the main here are a totally lost cause, the dominant culture being faith based which just confuses outsiders even more. We will correct this but we need Pakistanis to mature and become more pragmatic. Undo the brainwashing and insecurity.

I have a hypothesis, though I may be wrong. I think three large factors have contributed to this:
1. Pakistani rulers/elite thought process of what it means to be a nation. Specifically, for them, who are we if not Muslims. The number of times I see Pakistanis say 'if we are not Muslims, why don't we join Bharat'. I think many Pakistanis don't understand that it doesn't matter if they are Muslims or anything else for them to justify having their own country.

2. The spread of madrassas. This was actively promoted by Pakistani rulers and Saudi Arabia. Largely the students have been taught that their only identity is Islam and they exist to bring glory to Islam. This has happened over generations now.

3. The constant presence of India and all the negative connotations that has to a Pakistani mind.
If India did not exist, then perhaps over time Pakistanis could have appreciated their own land and its history more, much like Egyptians or Turks. But the looming presence of a greater power leads to escalation of commitment, on how Pakistanis are different and better than Indians.


All these factors have seeped deep in Pakistani society. I don't know if it is even possible to remove/change it now. Perhaps, as you said, over time when population stabilizes and universal schooling is achieved.

 

[Menace2Society]

Islam is not an Arab religion. Why are you impressed by these low lives neither knowing Islam nor its history? These hypernationalist Arabs never managed to do something genuine or remotely great in the last 600 years. Whereas Indo-Pak Muslims created empires and the best economy know to men.

Arabs shit on their Islamic history, why should we do the same by celebrating random pagans?

That’s the very reason why Pakistan exists today. Or what was the purpose of creating Pakistan? Having a drink without Hindus?

I have also known Iranians and they scoff at shia Pakistanis.

Look I wish it wouldn't have become like this but you can't gaslight on their behalf just because you don't like their opinion.

This is honest feedback, they think all of you are hanger ons "yes boss" culturally devoid simpletons who they can say to jump and you say "how high". I want us to become that civilization that Jinnah envisioned but we have to stop making excuses for others and focus on how to tell our story without feeling guilty.

 

[Clutch]

I see most Pakistanis neglect their pre Islamic history

I dont care about my pre-islamic history. I just care about our current and future Neoliberal cancer and religious extremists...

 

[Iltutmish]

I have also known Iranians and they scoff at shia Pakistanis.

I know how Shia Pakistanis are treated in Iran. Iranis are as racist as Arabs (maybe even more).

This is honest feedback, they think all of you are hanger ons "yes boss" culturally devoid simpletons who they can say to jump and you say "how high".

Arabs or Iranian mocking Pakistanis for being submissive? Man, this is truely the joke of the century. What do you suggest? Abolish Islam, embrace alcohol, prostitution and gambling because Arab masters do so?

I want us to become that civilization that Jinnah envisioned but we have to stop making excuses for others.

You ask 10 Pakistanis what Jinnah is or wanted and you get 25 answers to that question. So what Jinnah do you want? The English one, the brown one, the drinking one, the secular one, the religious one?

I dont care about my pre-islamic history. I just care about our current and future Neoliberal cancer and religious extremists...

Thank you. Pakistanis cannot stop appeasing Hindus and whities. Spain and Greece shit on their Muslim past, but Pakistan should erect Ranjit Singh statues all over Punjab. Why?

 

[Menace2Society]

You ask 10 Pakistanis what Jinnah is or wanted and you get 25 answers to that question. So what Jinnah do you want? The English one, the brown one, the drinking one, the secular one, the religious one?

The Pakistani one.