Drinking liqour is not Haram - Federal Shariat Court

[T-Faz]

I think that the FSC members were drinking when they said this.

 

[T-Faz]

There are many such ahadith too, but they are not regarded as robustly as many others indicating Muhammad PBUH himself did not partake.

Ahadith are further elaborations for the verses of the Quran, real examples that can be used to provide an insight and give clear indication of what is meant by the verse.

Such hadith have no factual backing for their authenticity.

Edit: I am addressing Freekin, not VCheng, replied to the wrong post by mistake.

 

[BATMAN]

dear batman, i ask you that in ayyat its written that through alcohol the devil makes a guy do bad things, so it means, when a person even drinks one sip, then the devil engages with him, so why you think that drinking to certain amount is not haram??please explain

Hi,
You are stating what you believe, without engaging the context.

Anyhow, In the whole debate 'haraam' is the key word.

I have the feeling, the actual meaning of the word itself are not clear to us!

IMO... 'haraam' is something, which is not tolerated in Islam, even a drop of it or bit of it in any circumstances and such are clearly identified in Quran from day one. e.g. 'shirk' and ‘Hadith’ only reconfirms it.
While some other acts clearly declared ‘haraam’ are even made ‘halal’ in certain conditions. e.g. in condition of life and death. e.g. pork meat.
Where as some acts are declared as sins equivalent to ‘haraam’ e.g. ‘bribery’
While some are advised to abstain but not stated as ‘haraam’ for such cases IMO equating them ‘allowed’ or ‘haraam’ both would be wrong.
For better understanding in such case, we have to understand the context, where ‘abstain’ is stated and in present case the context is a harmony and peace of society.
(P.S.:I have posted the Ayyats for every one to read the context and explanation…. as well.)
While, it comes to make rule or redefine………be careful not to replace the words ‘abstain’ to ‘haraam’
To understand the difference…. now, gauge the state of ‘khumar’ in terms of various punishments for various crimes in Islamic history.
I take one comparative example… Killing is the biggest crime and punishment is death but still forgivable if ‘Deet’ amount paid... hence technically the crime will not be punished anymore on judgment day!
While lashes for drinking are no where mentioned in Quran.

Same goes while we prepare Islamic law…. Quran shall be consulted not ‘Hadith’ and amusingly in Islamic state laws are equal for both Muslim and non-Muslim while in the laws of ‘Islamic republic of Pakistan’ drinking is allowed for non-Muslims and not allowed for Muslims!!!!!!

Here, I must say… appointing murderer as your president while criticizing a drunkard is hypocrisy… but this does not imply drinking is ‘permitted’.

IMO... we cannot take 'abstain' and 'haraam' in same context… and violating what is advised as ‘abstain’ can be only defined by the degree of abuse.
example.. ‘abstain’ is advised from 'divorce' but doing it without valid reason….. is wrong and many more examples...

Note,,,, the word used in Quran is 'KHUMAR' and many things may lead to mild ‘khumar’ i.e. loosing sense of good and bad for few hours.
IMO... watching indian TV is equal to intoxicating a child’s brain, where he loose sense of good and bad for ever.
Who is going to stop it???? Who is going to raise voice?
Corruption lead to destruction of economy and society.... and we practice it in front of our children but we may well tell them wine is 'forbidden'!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What we forget in doing so is……. one day that child will grow up and in process either will adopt to such hypocrite beleifs or will loose respect for his hypocrite elders.

I AGREE, Quran advised avoid getting in state of 'khumar' (by any means) but what is the point if my children believe 'hunuman' as an avatar of god?

the ayyats also mention to turn to prophets guidance, and we all know the story in which prophet strictly orddered the sahabas to throw down and smash their vessels of wine when the ayyats were disclosed to him??

Prophet's guidance... fine but where is prophets guidance written? I agree when prophet was alive he was source of guidance but today it if his written guidance do not confirm what is written in Quran than to whom shall we ask?

Becareful…. I have read narratives (only Allah knows the truth) in news that UK has been running Islamic seminaries as old as more than 100 years before... where youth were only taught about various 'Hadith' books!!
I even read accounts of non Muslims from some states working as imams in Pakistani Mosques.... what were they promoting 'Quran' no such elements promote non Quran Islam ....... so be careful out there...

there was reason to prohibit of any use of alcohol in islamic society, the ban was not allow muslims to engage with alcohol in the first place, if a guy drinks certain amounts he wishes to drink more till he lose his senses, the evil cannot be eridicated without cutting its entire roots

Excess of any thing is 'haraam'

 

[JonAsad]

Alcohol, used in moderation, is NOT an intoxicant.

God has forbidden us from Zina- Going by your logic is it alright to Kiss or have a hot foreplay session with another girl?-

 

[jam master]

I don't get this, why should the IIC get involved in this again? We need to move away from these extremist practices as this affects everybody on all levels of society. If somebody is a Muslim and he drinks, so what, it shouldn't be the governments job to police personal habits. Why is alcohol brewed in Pakistan if people hate it so much?

so it should be a problem if drugs are used, policing the people who use drugs is wrong too

also policing the internal matters of families and social services is wrong too, you should understand the concept before blindly licking the goras

 

[VCheng]

God has forbidden us from Zina- Going by your logic is it alright to Kiss or have a hot foreplay session with another girl?-

No. We are talking about only alcohol here. I could discuss this further but why take the thread off-topic?

My logic refers to exactly what the Quran says, no more, no less, for alcohol. Simple.

 

[Zarvan]

No. We are talking about only alcohol here. I could discuss this further but why take the thread off-topic?

My logic refers to exactly what the Quran says, no more, no less, for alcohol. Simple.

Sir about Alcohal Islam says don't even go close to it you can't drink a single drop because a man is very much capable of start drinking it in great amount

 

[VCheng]

Sir about Alcohal Islam says don't even go close to it you can't drink a single drop because a man is very much capable of start drinking it in great amount

Your statement indicates an incomplete and incorrect understanding of what Islam says about alcohol, and indeed about alcohol itself.

 

[Mabs]

Because the Quran is a divine text, and cannot be judged by rules of science and experimentation and logic?

Actually, there have been many studies which have proven that Quran is compatible with the modem concepts of science. Research into, it's never too late to learn.

Because religious law has always been a matter of interpretation, starting from the Hadith, which, by definition is Muhammad's (PBUH) interpretation of the Quran?

NO, I am afraid you are wrong. Hadith is not the Muhammad's (PBUH) intepretation of the Quran. Quran's phraseology and vocabulary is far superior to the everyday spoken Arabic and thus needed the prophet to explain it to the people to avoid contradictions and ensure clarity. God in the Quran says: " Take what the prophet gives you and leave what he forbids you(Not Literal Translation)". If God had this much faith in the prophet's ability to eloquently deliver his message to the people, then I guess I'll have a lil faith too. What you do is your own prerogative.

Because the Quran itself gives the right of Ijmah to its followers as a means for updating interpretations by mutual consensus?

You are either severely misinformed or acutely misled. Ijmah can not be done to overrule an established fact. You can not declare Zakat as voluntary and not obligatory through the process of Ijmah. Also, Ijamh can only be done to deal with the issues which arise with the passage of time and were not present when the Quran was being revealed. Furthermore, Ijmah is done in the light of knowledge which is already present and the rules which have already been laid down. For example to determine if Ecstasy and LSD are Halal or not, an Ijamh can be performed as these drugs are the inventions of modern times. However the process of ijmah will be based on information already available in the religion and the ruling on substances which fall in the same category as Ecstasy and LSD.

Because there is a wide space between rebuttal and acceptance, and even the Quran and Hadith accept that space?

Only when the ruling is unclear or murky. When the status of something is established in the religion, then there is no room for your own interpretation.

Need I go on? (You really need to practice more to improve your "intellectual" kung fu! )

I apologize for the delayed reply, was practicing my kung fu.

 

[VCheng]

Actually, there have been many studies which have proven that Quran is compatible with the modem concepts of science. Research into, it's never too late to learn.

We are not talking about the same thing. Dogma is different than science, since dogma is not a hypothesis that can be tested by experimentation by definition.

NO, I am afraid you are wrong. Hadith is not the Muhammad's (PBUH) intepretation of the Quran. Quran's phraseology and vocabulary is far superior to the everyday spoken Arabic and thus needed the prophet to explain it to the people to avoid contradictions and ensure clarity. God in the Quran says: " Take what the prophet gives you and leave what he forbids you(Not Literal Translation)". If God had this much faith in the prophet's ability to eloquently deliver his message to the people, then I guess I'll have a lil faith too. What you do is your own prerogative.

Thank you, that is exactly correct. I will respect your prerogatives to practice and believe whatever you like as long my right to do the same for myself is respected.

Even the clarifications of the Sunnah are not consistent. For example, there are many different ways of saying namaz as can be witnessed inside Al-Haram Al-Sharif, and they all lay claim to be following Rasul Allah's methods as were shown by him as one time or another.

You are either severely misinformed or acutely misled. Ijmah can not be done to overrule an established fact. You can not declare Zakat as voluntary and not obligatory through the process of Ijmah. Also, Ijamh can only be done to deal with the issues which arise with the passage of time and were not present when the Quran was being revealed. Furthermore, Ijmah is done in the light of knowledge which is already present and the rules which have already been laid down. For example to determine if Ecstasy and LSD are Halal or not, an Ijamh can be performed as these drugs are the inventions of modern times. However the process of ijmah will be based on information already available in the religion and the ruling on substances which fall in the same category as Ecstasy and LSD.

But that is the whole point: It was established by the FSC, based on the evidence presented before it, that alcohol is NOT haram. You may disagree, but at least you cannot claim the ban on alcohol as "established".

Please note that I have carefully defined my position in this thread, since all other examples, such as Zakat, that are being used, I agree with, because the clarity of the Quran is definitive in those cases.

Only when the ruling is unclear or murky. When the status of something is established in the religion, then there is no room for your own interpretation.

I reiterate the above: Quran has NOT "established" alcohol as haram.

I apologize for the delayed reply, was practicing my kung fu.

.......... and the improvement is to be appreciated. Many thanks for continuing to participate.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Pakistanis should not have any problem with Politicians drinking liquor since their founding fathers were addicted to it.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistanis should not have any problem with Politicians drinking liquor since their founding fathers were addicted to it.

do you have proof that they were "addicts" (i.e. alcoholics?) ??

 

[T-Faz]

do you have proof that they were "addicts" (i.e. alcoholics?) ??

Don't waste your time with him, he is against the creation of Pakistan and our founding fathers for creating because of his Ummah.

 

[Pride]

"Thukrao abki pyaar karo Main nashe mein hoon". I dont know why such a long discussion on this topic as who drinks will get an excuse for same while thos who never tried religious will be arch against of it. And then finally there is no "Absolute truth" in this world

 

[Zarvan]

"Thukrao abki pyaar karo Main nashe mein hoon". I dont know why such a long discussion on this topic as who drinks will get an excuse for same while thos who never tried religious will be arch against of it. And then finally there is no "Absolute truth" in this world

Their is Absolute truth and that is truth of ISLAM which is spread fast