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Don't Mistake China's Stock Market For China's Economy

So US financial meltdown in stock market between 2007 - 2008 had zero effect on real-world economy? :rofl:
The 2008 was more to do with subprime, but of course you wouldn't know this. Again do more research before you blab.
2008 -09 was a great year for me. Suckers like you who think they know the market lost their money to me.

Really? Because I am not sure about you, but this doesn't look to be "the chances of stocks fluctuating widely becomes low"

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No need to explain to people who don't gamble in the market. On Wednesday Dow was down over 240 points. Pick up a nice oil etf, next day up. 55 cents / share.
That is something these big mouths won't do but talk like they know everything about the market.
 
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China: small market quake, not many hurt

July 11, 2015 - 1:10AM

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      China’s market has tanked, but that doesn’t mean its economy will crash too. Photo: AP

      China's government has been attempting a delicate balancing act since the middle of last year. This month, it fell off the wire.

      A year ago it wanted to slow a housing construction boom that was becoming a bubble but wanted to also keep China's economy growing at a 7 per cent-plus annual rate, even as housing investment and construction slowed.

      It also wanted to accelerate the privatisation of state-owned enterprises, and wanted to encourage the accumulation of middle-class wealth to assist China's transition from an economy driven by investment and construction to a more "capital light" model where household consumption is the dominant source of growth.

      It decided to artificially induce a domestic sharemarket boom to get those jobs done. Liquidity was created, borrowing rates were cut, controls on lending for share investment in the domestic "A Share" market that is restricted to domestic investors were relaxed, and government media outlets began promoting share ownership.

      The domestic market soared until the middle of June this year as retail investors poured in – but then it cracked.

      It was down almost 30 per cent a week ago when Beijing began rolling out an unprecedented defence. Short selling was banned. Brokers and investment funds pledged to not sell until share prices recovered, and to form buying consortiums. The government tipped more liquidity into the market, and suspended trading in more than half of China's domestically traded shares.

      The market bounced on Thursday and Friday this week but for the West, it was confronting stuff. There had to be some deeper fear of dislocation in Beijing, many Western observers argued.

      They were, however, viewing the meltdown through a Western prism. Beijing is still running a command-control economy, and it sees China's domestic sharemarket as a policy conduit. It is also experiencing its first market slump, and learning on the job. The lesson it will take away is not that it shouldn't intervene, but that it needs to intervene more effectively.

      How much would an economic slump in China affect the world, and how likely is China's sharemarket plunge to cause such a slump?

      The first part of that question is easy to answer. China is either the world's largest or second-largest economy after the United States depending on the way it is measured. It is also Australia's biggest trading partner, and the biggest influence on the price of the commodities Australian sells.

      Its growth has already slowed from 11 per cent-plus a few years ago to about 7 percent as it shifts from its industrial construction phase towards Western-style consumer-driven growth. A shock that knocked growth well below 7 per cent would be a serious setback for the world, and for Australia in particular.

      There are no compelling reasons yet to believe that China's market slump will become a big economic slump, however.
      n4Winuh.jpg

      There are two main ways the market downturn would feed into the economy. The first is through lower household consumption, if households perceive that the downturn has cut into their wealth and spending power. The second is through the Chinese credit system, if margin loans made to Chinese share investors go bad.

    • The paper wealth that the sharemarket boom created has been trimmed, not eradicated, however. China's Shanghai Shenzhen CSI 300 share index rose 147 per cent between June 30 last year and June 8 this year when it peaked. The rise from November 20 when the boom went into top gear was 111 per cent.

      On Friday, after a second day of substantial gains, the market was still 27 per cent below its June high – but it was also 80 per cent above its level on June 30 last year, 54 per cent above its level on November 20, up 10 per cent for all of 2015, and only back where it was in March this year.

      What we are actually seeing so far is the deflation of a bubble. Citigroup China market strategist Jason Sun says at its peak, the CSI 300 was valued at 18 times forecast earnings in the next year. It is now trading at a much more sustainable 14.5 times future earnings.

      Will households cut their spending even though the paper gains they have lost were only months old? Well, they didn't appear to go on a spending spree when the market was soaring – and if they do, the effect will be less powerful in China where consumption is still only 50 per cent of economic activity than it is in the West, where consumption accounts for about 75 per cent of growth.

      What about those warnings that the market slump will trigger a Chinese debt crisis that in turn pummels the economy?

      They don't take into account the size of China's economy, the relative insignificance of margin lending for shares in it, and automatic stabilisers that are built into all margin loans, including ones that were created in China.

      The mix of government, corporate and household debt varies but all the big economies, including Australia's, are heavily geared when all debts are taken into account.

      Australia's state and federal government debt is about 30 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP can be thought of as annual income). Its total debt including household debt and corporate debt is about 245 per cent of GDP.

      China's national government debt is about 65 per cent of GDP but its total debt including corporate and local government debt is about 250 per cent of GDP. The total debt load in the United States is similar to Australia and China's and, like Australia's, heaviest in the private sector.

      Margin lending for shares is a small part of China's total debt portfolio, however. In May before the market downturn happened, it equalled about 3.2 per cent of China's gross domestic product and about 1.7 per cent of China's debt load. On June 7, after the liquidation of 21 per cent of the margin loan pool, it equalled 2.5 per cent of GDP and about 1.3 per cent of the debt load.

      It's difficult to see margin lending losses triggering a debt tsunami on those numbers: and while Chinese listed companies are also pressured by falling share prices, the market is only back to where it was in March. Any company that geared itself on the basis of its peak market value in June would surely be an outlier.

      There's a wrinkle that makes the Chinese margin-loan market more vulnerable than those in the West. Because it wanted to use the sharemarket to develop a middle-class cadre, the government last year allowed investors to open up to 20 separate margin lending accounts.

      That means the spread of investing in China through margin lending during the boom has been overstated, and the concentration of margin lending has been understated. There are fewer investors in the market than most think, but the ones who are in are carrying relatively big debt loads.

      As in the Western markets, however, Chinese margin loans have been made as a percentage of the market value of the shares being acquired. Just as they would have to in Australia, Chinese investors must inject top-up equity into loans if share values fall below loan valuation ratios. If they sell shares to do so, they add to selling pressure in the market.

      The big Chinese brokers lent money on a loan-to-valuation ratio of 50 per cent. Shares bought using those credit lines needed to fall 50 per cent before a call for more equity was issued. The market as a whole fell 30 per cent, although individual falls varied.

      Smaller Chinese brokers lent money on a more aggressive loan-valuation ratio of 75 per cent. Share investments funded in that way needed to fall only 25 per cent to generate a call for extra capital. Many of these more aggressively geared positions would have been hit by margin calls and share sales to fund them that strengthened the market downdraft. China's margin debt load fell from $US334 billion at the end of May to $US261 billion on July 7 as positions were liquidated.

      Where to from here? If the market doesn't recover, there will be more margin calls when shares that have been suspended resume trading again. If another plunge is avoided, however, margin losses created by the first downturn will eventually be cleared: one guess is that about half the margin losses have been taken so far.

      Systemic risk from the market slump "is not the big issue", says Lim Say Boon, chief investment officer of of Singapore-based DBS bank.

      The government's decision to try to "stabilise the market by restricting market forces" will, however, damage confidence in China's new middle class in particular if it fails, he says.

      It was the artificially induced market boom rather than the slump that followed that signalled Beijing was short of growth options, he adds. Now the markets are sidelined, and China's government risks losing political capital, "which in China is every bit as important as financial capital". What will it do next to lock in the 7 per cent-plus growth rate that it wants?

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      http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/china-small-market-quake-not-many-hurt-20150710-gi9qkm.html
 
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I just know we have lost worth 2 times of Indian stock market.
WE LOST 2 INDIA!
:lol:
You are unbelievable ..You need some education in layman terms ..Suppose you I draw twice amount of salary compared to yours and lost half of my salary in gambling ..Can I say my loss is worth that of your life ?? Time can change dear ..your income can increase with correct use of resources ..movie is still going on ..dont think time will stay as it is
 
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Why the Stock Meltdown Doesn’t Spell Doom for China

The country’s economy has a very different relationship to equity markets than the West’s do.


Yale historian Jonathan Spence once famously posited that since the times of Marco Polo, the West has invariably seen China through the same lens that it sees itself. As global equity markets swoon in response to the recent meltdown in Chinese stocks, these deep-rooted biases are in play once again. The Western version of China has darkened out of fear of asset bubbles, excess investment, and debt overhangs—precisely the same imbalances that have afflicted the major economies of the developed world over the past two decades. The truth is far less bleak.

China’s plunging stock market is the most obvious case in point. Yes, a big bubble has burst—as of July 8, the domestic Chinese equity market has fallen by 31 percent from its June 12 peak after surging by nearly 150 percent over the preceding year. Notwithstanding massive government support actions now being unleashed, there’s no telling how much further the sell-off has to go. The question for China is precisely the same as that which was raised by the bursting of earlier stock bubbles—especially those in Japan and the United States: Will the carnage in asset markets do lasting damage to China’s real economy?

What about China’s notorious investment bubble—the “ghost cities” you see on 60 Minutes, the excess capacity in steel, cement, plate glass, and other basic industries, or an investment share that approaches an unheard-of 50 percent of GDP? From a Western perspective, these are all telltale signs of imbalance and impending collapse. But that’s not the case for China.

There are two main reasons for that. First, China is going through unprecedented urbanization. Since 2000, its urban population has increased by approximately 20 million citizens per year. In terms of shelter and its associated infrastructure requirements, China is adding the equivalent of 2½ New York Citys a year. With urbanization likely to continue at this rate through at least 2030, that spells high investment for years to come.

Second, there is the critical difference between stocks and flows—something that is drilled into college undergraduates in their first economics course. The investment share of GDP, a flow, is high in China in large part because the stock of productive capital is so low. That largely reflects the sad state of the Chinese economy in the late 1970s in the aftermath of the Cultural Revolution. In fact, China’s stock of capital per worker—long recognized as a key driver of productivity—is currently less than 15 percent of that of the United States and Japan. China’s economic development will depend critically on its ability to raise its capital-to-labor ratio—an outcome that requires it to maintain a high investment share of its GDP for the foreseeable future.

But surely China’s debt load—estimated at close to 250 percent of its GDP—is cause for concern. This is a Japanese-style problem that on the surface appears likely to end in tears. But here, as well, the Western lens that Spence warns of clouds the analysis.

China’s financial system is, at best, only partially developed. Most of the credit flows through the banking sector. The bond market is tiny when compared with most modern economies. The bubble-prone stock market is hardly a secure source of financing for its companies. That biases financing toward debt-intensive bank credit—a bias that has been compounded in recent years as China moved aggressively to shield itself from the recent financial crisis and Great Recession.

Mindful of the perils of debt-intensive growth, Beijing is now attempting to wean local governments and state-owned enterprises from their recent credit binges. That, in fact, is a key source of the current slowdown that is now playing out in the real economy. To the extent that Chinese authorities are successful in this so-called deleveraging—and recent indications are encouraging in that respect—China’s still rapid growth in nominal GDP should bring its overall debt ratio down sharply over the next few years. In contrast with sentiment in the Western press, China is not the next Japan or the next Greece.

While the warning signs noted above are in the danger zone as seen from a Western perspective, they don't capture the essence of the biggest story in China—a major shift in the focus of its growth model. For 30 years, the Chinese development boom drew its sustenance from manufacturing-led exports and investment—a combination that produced a 30-fold increase in per capita incomes that elevated China to the world’s second-largest economy.

But this strain of growth was not sustainable. It left the economy unbalanced and unstable, to borrow the prophetic 2007 words of former Premier Wen Jiabao. Shifting to a services- and consumer-led model was the only recipe for sustainable development, and China’s leadership has embraced that strategy in the past five years through its 12th five-year plan adopted in early 2011 and in a series of major reforms enacted in late 2013.

Structural change is a glacial process and a Herculean task for any economy. China’s challenge—shifting the engine of growth from manufacturing-led exports and investment to services-led consumption—is no less daunting. But as has been the case throughout China’s extraordinary development since the late 1970s, it is making surprisingly quick progress in transforming its growth model.

Encouraging evidence shows up on three fronts: First, the development of the services sector—the foundation of consumer demand—is well ahead of schedule. Services rose to 48 percent of Chinese GDP in 2014, eclipsing the combined 43 percent share of manufacturing and construction. With services requiring about 30 percent more jobs per unit of output than China’s other nonagricultural sectors, slower GDP growth raises little risk of rising unemployment and social instability.

Second, explosive growth in e-commerce has become a powerful shortcut to Chinese consumption growth. Unlike emerging consumers of yesteryear who relied on the bricks and mortar of physical shopping malls to exercise their buying preferences, China’s new generation of consumers has turned to virtual malls offered by companies such as Taobao and Tmall. E-commerce has been growing by more than 70 percent annually since 2009, according to Bain & Co., and in 2013 China surpassed the United States as the world’s largest digital marketplace. The West, by fixating on cyberhacking and Internet censorship, has missed China’s newfound potential for networked tastes, brand awareness, and nationwide buying patterns as catalytic developments on the road to Chinese consumerism.

Third, urbanization is proceeding at breakneck speed. In 2014, the urban share of the Chinese population hit 55 percent—up from less than 20 percent in 1980 and on its way to an estimated 69 percent by 2030, according to OECD projections. Urbanization is the glue that cements the emergence of the Chinese consumer. Not only does it boost real incomes—urban workers earn approximately three times their counterparts in rural communities—but urbanization also underpins the development of new services like local transportation, communications, utilities, as well as wholesale and retail trade.

And by fixating on China’s so-called ghost cities, the West misses yet another key milestone in the emergence of the next China. One district in Zhengzhou that was portrayed as ghost-like by 60 Minutes is now fully occupied. In China, proactive urban development anticipates migration. This stands in sharp contrast to India’s urban squalor, where urbanization is always struggling to catch up with migration from the countryside. :partay:

So think again before you ponder the perils that China supposedly faces. While China has many of the symptoms that have and are still afflicting more prosperous economies in the West, it is at a very different state in its development journey. The lens through which we see ourselves overstates China’s downside risks and misses the strategic building blocks of its nascent structural transformation. While hardly problem-free, the Chinese economy continues to offer a growth potential unmatched by any other nation in the world today.


Stephen S. Roach, a faculty member at Yale University and former chairman of Morgan Stanley Asia, is the author of Unbalanced: The Codependency of America and China.

China stock meltdown: Why its actual economy will be just fine.
 
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