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Divine laws are more relevant for modern societies.

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Spectre said:
Eh! Divine Laws? When there is no proof for even divinity?

Laws are useless without enforcement and a punishment/reward matrix.

In 21st century it is silly to talk about these things - @Spring Onion is correct when it says that they should at best be considered as soft guidance. No biggie if you don't take the guidance.
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:) I did not say that it is silly to talk about these things. As far as guidance is concerned you always needs one but what is wrong and what is right that is the main thing
 
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Ammara Chaudhry said:
You're jumping back to the same comment. IT IS A FACT SIR. WHAT EVER ALLAH HAS STATED OR RASOOL ALLAH (SAW) said is a FACT.
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Using capitals is like shouting, but it can never make beliefs into facts. What you have stated is your personal belief shared by Muslims, but not by billions of other human beings. Whatever Allah has stated is a belief, not a fact.
 
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Ammara Chaudhry said:
Sir, this charter took place in early time period of Islam. And at that time only people of Mecca and Madina(Yastib) were Muslims for the most part. So, it was implemented on them. Because they were representatives of Islam and Muslim in whole. Later on when Islam started to spread all over the places, it was implemented on them as well since it was the best form of government back then. (Time period of Umar (RA) must be mentioned here. He was one of the caliph after the death of prophet Muhammad (SAW), just so you know). Remember it was not imposed, but they chose to rule their states with shariah law.
Again, I have to repeat myself here. Islam doesn't enforce it. Quran doesn't specifically talk about any form of government a gives the freedom to chose one. Unfortunately, today we have mixed up Islam with culture of Muslim countries.
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I know of places and times when Islam was forced and coereced upon people under threat of death, but that is not what we are discussing here, so won't go into it.

My point is this: even if I grant the quranic assertion that Allah is all knowing all powerful and that Islam was the perfection of religion and therefore one cannot change it, it stands in complete contradiction with very basic things such as then why it came about for only yatrib/mecca and even today 5/6 of the global population rejects it; but even more importantly, while your heart is in the right place as you say human interpretations should not be accepted as quran, you yourself are using interpretations - eg: when quran explitly says it is for all people or yatrib, why is islam being taken and practiced outside of yatrib? if Allah wanted it outside he would have done it so and not needed humans to spread it. That is just an example. I already gace you another example: he clearly says it is the way to water, and you all start interpreting water to be this that and everything else.....thus you all build interpretations over interpretations ....it has become worse than Lehman invested derivatives!

Bottom line: no one has a clue of wth quran is saying or so called sharia is, yet everyone must believe that it is the answer to all questions! what we see in practice is violence hatred and enmity
 
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Cherokee said:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/south-korea-adultery-law-repeal/386603/



1. give me example of any case in past couple of decades where anyone has been jailed in India or US for adultery .

2. Give me stats . Polygamy is a crime for Hindus in India . Plus "permission " from your first wife is such a massive BS . Any wife willingingly wont share Husband unless she is mentally retarded .

3. There was never never a single shiny green banner of Islam . Even in "golden period" multiple green shiny banners were fighting with each other .
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1: Listen, I dont have time to give you second to second details. You are free to investigate - one of my teachers here in the US got arrested a couple days back for adultery.

2: Polygamy censuses are banned in India to hide that fact that it is most practiced there. The latest census was 1961/1970 and let me quote this from wikipedia ; [Incidence was highest among Adivasis (15.25%) and Buddhists (7.9%); Hindus (5.8%), by comparison, had an incidence 0.5% higher than Muslims in 1960; though it has declined much more faster among Hindus in the last five decades with its criminalisation]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_India
'BS' - that is why less than 1-2% of Muslims practice polygamy; a people do accept - to gain additional hand in taking care of the household or land, especially in poverty filled rural areas.

3: Of course there were many Muslim empires at the same time, but fighting was extremely avoided and a mutual relation had always existed between them: for example - the Ottomans sent a massive fleet and army (despite fighting other wars) into the Arabian, Indian and Banda sea to help their Muslim brothers in Malaysia and Indonesia against the onslaught of the Portuguese and successfully defeated them. Fighting between Muslim nations (only 3 major ones at that time) was rare and only occurred because of the power-thirsty ambitions of Muslim rulers who cared more about wealth and power than Islam. But overall all Muslim countries were loosely united and always helped each other out.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:
Using capitals is like shouting, but it can never make beliefs into facts. What you have stated is your personal belief shared by Muslims, but not by billions of other human beings. Whatever Allah has stated is a belief, not a fact.
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Hey, this is what differentiates Islam from other religions - it is fact and that is what made me come so close to Islam. Its like saying 2+2=4 is a belief stated by a mathematician. Allah has said that life originated from water, that the universe is ever expanding, how the earth is shaped as a ostrich egg (perfect shape description), the exact details of embryonic development and so much more...

I'm a man of logic - I crave knowledge and learning; I dont follow something blindly, and that is what Islam tells you - to not follow it blindly but study it. I suggest you do the same, dont live in a cloud of stubbornness or ignorance - dont judge a book by its cover or what other people say.
 
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Ammara Chaudhry said:
Sharia law, something which makes people think of a very rigid and extreme way of ruling a country. Many of us don't even know the meaning of the word sharia. This word literally means, “a way” or “A path to life giving water”. And the word Halakha is derived from the Hebrew language and it means the same as word sharia. Therefore, this word is entrenched from the Abrahamic tradition.

Additionally, Divine laws like laws of nature are more appropriate for human society to flourish and they are more closer to the nature.
Similarly, sharia laws are modern form of divine or natural laws of human society. It is pertinent to mention here that all terrorists organizations supporting narrative of sharia laws are in fact anti Sharia and divine rules of forgiveness and mercy.


(Before advocating Sharia laws let me clarify Islam is the religion of peace and forgiveness and I don't support narratives of militant groups).

Now what is sharia law?

Unfortunately, many of us do not even know the basics of this law and lambastes it. This law is based on teaching of Quran and Sunnah (authentic examples of prophet Muhammad (SAW)). Only examining the component of the sharia law, will yield a little or no understanding of the law. Islam’s law talks about every aspects of life and gives the complete outline to live a life. It conceives this earth as a single ‘city’ with different occupants. In modern words a ‘global village’. It talks about the society as whole and its benefits.


Islamic Federalism.

Before going further, I would like to briefly explain about Islamic federalism. Unlike the western federalism, Islamic federalism gives complete freedom to all the states under Muslims rule to creat their own laws and rule their states according to that. Additionally, the first even written constitution was developed by prophet Muhammad (SAW) in Madina, called Misaq e Madina (Madina Charter). Here's the opening of Madina Charter;

"This is a document from Muhammad the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), governing relations between the Believers i.e. Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib and those who followed them and worked hard with them. They form one nation – Ummah”
It says all citizens of ‘Yathrib’ (old name of Madina). Everyone regardless their tribe and religion is under one flag and one nation---‘Ummah’.
Moreover, it states into "Misaq" document, that: "No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew. The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped. If anyone attacks anyone who is a party to this Pact the other must come to his help.” This constitution assured the equal rights to all the citizens of Madina. Also under Islamic law,” A Muslim can neither drink wine nor prohibit a Christian from drinking it in a Christian state ruled under Sharia Law”.


The primary object of this law is mercy.

Allah says,

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا رَحْمَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

(And We did not send you (O Muhammad) except as a mercy for all creation.[3])

And prophet Muhammad (saw) stated, “And the Prophet (s) said, “The Most Merciful shows mercy to those who have mercy on others. Show mercy to those on earth, and the One above the heaven will show mercy to you.”
Mercy for all not just for Muslims and from this we can summarize the primary object of this law. Also, Islam does not spread hate, but it is the religion with the message of peace and mercy for all.

Basics of Sharia Law.

Moreover, Sharia law consists five main branches. Adab (behavior, morals and manners), ibadah (ritual worship), i'tiqadat (beliefs), mu'amalat (transactions and contracts) and 'uqubat (punishments). The combination of these branches make up a society that is build on Adl (justice), pluralism, and equity for each and every single member of the society. In addition, it is set of Príncipe that governs the behavior of a Muslim individual toward himself/herself, neighbors, community, family, nation, etc. Also, Muslim polity as whole (Muslim Ummah). It is a complete way of life and governs the interactions between countries, communities, and in between social and economic organization.

Common misconceptions related to sharia law.


Pursuing this further, people believe that Islam teaches to impose the sharia law unwillingly on people. But in reality, Islam doesn't promote any specific form of government. But it requires to choose any form based on Adl (absolute justice). Allah says in Quran, “Verily, Allah enjoins justice, and the doing of good to others; and giving like kindred; and forbids indecency and manifest evil and transgression. He admonishes you that you may take heed" (16:91). Discern, there's no mentioned of religious preference. Therefore, ruling with absolute justice is the main priority regardless the form of government. For instance, king Solomon from Israel kingdom, ruled successfully based on monarchy----fundamental principle of shariah law.



Furthermore, mainstream media today panting the wrong image of sharia law to the world. The sterling examples they report are countries like, Pakistan, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and other Muslims counties. Although, these countries don't even represent the true sharia law. Even though, these countries are ruled with combination of sharia law and non-Islamic cultural practices. Western media is distorting the concept of sharia law with the linking it to cruelty, backwardness, rigidness, anti-modernism and very intolerant faith. Now people believe this Islamic law opposes the egalitarian society. It also opposes the idea of life, liberty, and pursuits of happiness.
Interestingly, Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years under sharia law. Later when in 1602, Christians reconquered Spain, the greatest allegation they brought against Muslims was their being too tolerant in religion.
The Archbishop of Valencia, in recommending the expulsion of Muslims from Spain stated:
"…that they (the Muslims) highly praised nothing as much as liberty of conscience in all matters of religion, which the Turks, and all other Mohammedans, allow their subjects to enjoy,". This is self explanatory about the tolerance of Muslims and intolerance of Christians. Unwittingly this charge against Muslims complimented Muslims in Spain.

Next, one of the common misconception western have misunderstood about sharia law is that, it enforces to cut off the hand for stealing a piece of breads, etc. In reality, it permits to amputate thieves’ hand. According to Quran in Chapter 5 verses 38 to 40 about the punishment for stealing are in following examples;

“As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands: a retribution for their deed and exemplary punishment from Allah and Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

But if the thief repent after his crime, and amend his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Knowest thou not that to Allah (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth, whom He pleaseth and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and Allah hath power over all things.”

Reading the portion of the subject and kenning it, wouldn't help, but creat more confusions. Surprisingly, sharia law states that “if someone is caught stealing -- as a result of hunger, poverty or necessity -- their hand should not be amputated. Instead, a thorough investigation must be done as to the circumstances of the theft that caused the individual to steal. If it is found that the individual stole as a result of necessity, then instead of amputation, Sharia law dictates that well-to-do members of the community provide support for the individual. The provision of support could be in the form of financial support, employment, education and charity.”
This is when the purpose of Zakat is making more sense, it makes sure that the needs of people are being fulfilled with the money of Zakat. So, these kind of evils would never occur in society in the first place.
To cite an example, what foreign observers remarked about the 18th century of the Ottoman Empire,
“No one locks their house in a city of one million people because no theft has ever been reported. You do not see a vagabond, a beggar or a man who shouts loudly on the streets. Women receive the greatest respect at home and enjoy authority. There is nothing more abominable then to stare at a women walking down the street, and especially raising your hand to beat them."-----Mr Porter, British Ambassador to Turkey.

Furthermore, another misconception related to sharia law is that, it doesn't give the freedom of religion. Today we all idealize the constitution of USA. It's granting of freedom of religion, guaranteed rights to life, pursuits of happiness is admired by all. But 1400 years ago prophet Muhammad (saw) had already given these rights to everyone. These rights were granted to all the citizens under Islamic federalism, regardless their faith.
Here are few examples from Quran about protecting the rights of freedom of religion to everyone:


"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error… [2:256]

"Say (Muhammad it is) truth from the Lord of all. Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, LET him disbelieve." [18:29]


If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe![10:99]

Quran also talks about the rights to pursuit of happiness. According to Quran citing few examples;


“To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) towards all that is good…[1:148]
"But seek, with the (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on thee, the Home of the Hereafter, nor forget thy portion in this world...[28:77]

“For them there is the glad tiding [of happiness] in the life of this world and in the life to come; [and since] nothing could ever alter [the outcome of] Allah's promises, this, this is the triumph supreme![10:64]
This is very brief explanation of sharia law and misconceptions.

I will conclude this up with very famous saying, “don't judge a book by its cover”. Judging Islam or Islamic law based on what media shows, wouldn't help either Islam/Muslims or world as a whole. It's a great stumbling block to the world. All the information is on our finger tips and rather buying the news from media or relying on media completely, one should search it himself. To make this world peaceful, we are all obligated to educate ourselves about the matters. Quran encourages everyone to find out the truth and seek knowledge. We should use all the capabilities God has endowed us. Once we give this up to an intellectual elite, we have forfeited our right to think.



@MaarKhoor @Neutron @Zibago @DesertFox97 @mshahid @Akheilos @Tipu7
@WAJsal @jamahir @Khafee
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A thorough and great read!!!!!:tup::tup:

Zibago said:
We already have sharia law in Pakistan what more do they want?
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Do we???
 
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Talwar e Pakistan said:
1: Listen, I dont have time to give you second to second details. You are free to investigate - one of my teachers here in the US got arrested a couple days back for adultery.

2: Polygamy censuses are banned in India to hide that fact that it is most practiced there. The latest census was 1961/1970 and let me quote this from wikipedia ; [Incidence was highest among Adivasis (15.25%) and Buddhists (7.9%); Hindus (5.8%), by comparison, had an incidence 0.5% higher than Muslims in 1960; though it has declined much more faster among Hindus in the last five decades with its criminalisation]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_India
'BS' - that is why less than 1-2% of Muslims practice polygamy; a people do accept - to gain additional hand in taking care of the household or land, especially in poverty filled rural areas.

3: Of course there were many Muslim empires at the same time, but fighting was extremely avoided and a mutual relation had always existed between them: for example - the Ottomans sent a massive fleet and army (despite fighting other wars) into the Arabian, Indian and Banda sea to help their Muslim brothers in Malaysia and Indonesia against the onslaught of the Portuguese and successfully defeated them. Fighting between Muslim nations (only 3 major ones at that time) was rare and only occurred because of the power-thirsty ambitions of Muslim rulers who cared more about wealth and power than Islam. But overall all Muslim countries were loosely united and always helped each other out.


Hey, this is what differentiates Islam from other religions - it is fact and that is what made me come so close to Islam. Its like saying 2+2=4 is a belief stated by a mathematician. Allah has said that life originated from water, that the universe is ever expanding, how the earth is shaped as a ostrich egg (perfect shape description), the exact details of embryonic development and so much more...

I'm a man of logic - I crave knowledge and learning; I dont follow something blindly, and that is what Islam tells you - to not follow it blindly but study it. I suggest you do the same, dont live in a cloud of stubbornness or ignorance - dont judge a book by its cover or what other people say.
Click to expand...
So your argument is that as a few 'true' statements are stated in the Quran, so it is can be inferred that that Islam and the Quran is a fact?
That is probably the least logical thing I have heard, or maybe you have a different meaning of Logic in your mind.
It sounds like words of an indoctrinated religious person and not one bit logical.
As you love knowledge and learning, I would suggest you read on the following topics: Gettier problem (you'll agree that your statement was wrong after reading this and ofcourse try to understand the Euler Diagram)
Critical reasoning
Logical reasoning
Then go back to the Quran and read it with an open mind, forget all the interpretations that have been Inculcated upon you, and you will realise what really Islam is, what message the Quran gives, what was the reason for Religion, and countless other questions which you never imagined before; but for that to happen, ones mind must be open and one must think a lot.
Good Luck!
 
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