Difference between pl-15 and s400 missiles

[Trango Towers]

Hi,
I was trolling the YouTube and ended up listing to an Indian analyst abhijit Iyer Mitra with an interesting opinion on the pl-15

he feels that meteor missiles is better than the Pl15 because

1) meteor is air breathing and pl-15 is not hence would have to mange the extra weight to maneuver in the kill phase.

2) meteor is more maneuverable even though it is a long range bvr missile

I am confused as pl-15 has dual rocket motors one for launch and the second For the kill phase it would make it about as much maneuverable. These missiles don’t attempt to hit their targets but rather use proximity fuses.

if the above assumption is correct the s-400 missiles 40N6E would face the same issues

can someone please help me with these details

Kv

He is Indian...anything in India's arsenal is super duper and 'game changer'
We have 'fantastic tea' which is a game changer

 

[Khan vilatey]

Trejectories of both missiles are different as well as purpose and what is r-57 there is no russian air to air missile called r-57

Trejectories of both missiles are different as well as purpose and what is r-57 there is no russian air to air missile called r-57

sorry typo meant r-37m

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-37_(missile)

 

[dbc]

I wanted to take a dual motor missile vs an air breathing missile. My concept was that if the pl-15 is no good than the Russian s-400 missiles, r-57, r-77, aim-120d etc. are equally as bad.

So wanted to call out some of frenimies across the border for their hypocrisy

kv

SAM missiles are larger and can accommodate a larger seeker,more fuel and more compute power than air-to-air munitions. Also consider, SAM's are supported by surface radars, computers and jammers with a lot more power at their disposal. Generally it is a widely held opinion that surface to air missile are far more dangerous than AAMs.

 

[Khan vilatey]

SAM missiles are larger and can accommodate a larger seeker,more fuel and more compute power than air-to-air munitions. Also consider, SAM's are supported by surface radars, computers and jammers with a lot more power at their disposal. Generally it is a widely held opinion that surface to air missile are far more dangerous than AAMs.

agreed, there are pros and cons of each weapon but at range they both have the same concept. Go high, gain speed then descend near your target, finally use proximity fuse to take the target out

 

[Ultima Thule]

sorry typo meant r-37m

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-37_(missile)

R-37 is also has dual pulse rocket motor' where you hear that it has RAMJET propulsion???

 

[Khan vilatey]

R-37 is also has dual pulse rocket motor' where you hear that it has RAMJET propulsion???

I did not say ramjet ?

 

[Ultima Thule]

I did not say ramjet ?

So why you comparing 2 different range BVR to each other , pl15 is for countering agile fighter jets and R-37 is intended for non agile targets like AWACS/tanker/ISR (INTELLIGENCE/ SURVEILLANCE/SPY) AIRCRAFT

 

[I S I]

Apples and orange comparison. Thread should be shut down.

Meteor is Orange

 

[21st Century Vampire]

The PL-15 has multi-pulse motor if I'm not mistaken ... I have heard a Chinese ramjet is in the works. Would be interesting to see if future PL-15s incorporate it.

It would outrange the Meteor by around 30-40km, hope you have some spicy sauce about the ramjet

agreed, there are pros and cons of each weapon but at range they both have the same concept. Go high, gain speed then descend near your target, finally use proximity fuse to take the target out

Concept is one thing, capability is another

 

[Khan vilatey]

So why you comparing 2 different range BVR to each other , pl15 is for countering agile fighter jets and R-37 is intended for non agile targets like AWACS/tanker/ISR (INTELLIGENCE/ SURVEILLANCE/SPY) AIRCRAFT

well Indian so called experts said that the meteor is the best thing since slice bread and as it is air breathing it will give the pl-15 carrying aircraft a run for their money. My view is that as the pl-15 has more range it would out gun meteor. Especially with an awacs aircraft. So this is not really a game changer rather a bit of a good addition

regards
Kv

 

[Ultima Thule]

well Indian so called experts said that the meteor is the best thing since slice bread and as it is air breathing it will give the pl-15 carrying aircraft a run for their money. My view is that as the pl-15 has more range it would out gun meteor. Especially with an awacs aircraft. So this is not really a game changer rather a bit of a good addition

regards
Kv

No bro kinematics of both missiles are different and BVR are not often fired at their max range but to secure successful hit BVR always fire within the NEZ ( NO ESCAPE ZONE) where meteor has an advantage because it has 3 times of NO ESCAPE ZONE as compare at conventional BVR (dual pulse rocket motor) ones

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,
I was trolling the YouTube and ended up listing to an Indian analyst abhijit Iyer Mitra with an interesting opinion on the pl-15

he feels that meteor missiles is better than the Pl15 because

1) meteor is air breathing and pl-15 is not hence would have to mange the extra weight to maneuver in the kill phase.

2) meteor is more maneuverable even though it is a long range bvr missile

I am confused as pl-15 has dual rocket motors one for launch and the second For the kill phase it would make it about as much maneuverable. These missiles don’t attempt to hit their targets but rather use proximity fuses.

if the above assumption is correct the s-400 missiles 40N6E would face the same issues

can someone please help me with these details

Kv

Traditionally air to air missles when launched continously burn their rocket for a minute appox and run out of fuel afterwards the sinply cruise on moment they gained during the first minute burn..so if they have to manuveur that would greatly affect the moment and thus range.
This is true for sd10& aim120c5

To over come this two solutions were put forward
Americans explord both 1. A air breathing engine which will not carry oxydizer and will therefore run for much longer and hence can manuver much better
2. A pulse rocket engine which wouldnt finish all of its fuel in one burn.

Theoretically seems solution 1 would have longer range for the same weight(meteor)

Why did the chinese and americans abandone that is not known but rumors were high operational costs.
PL -15 is 25% heavier than meteor with pulse rocket engine and but seemingly have range similar to meteor (given heavier with more fuel)
Terminal manuverbility will depend upon other factors.
Surpringsly aim 120d is lighter than meteor & aim 120c but range thought to be similar to meteor

 

[ziaulislam]

No bro kinematics of both missiles are different and BVR are not often fired at their max range but to secure successful hit BVR always fire within the NEZ ( NO ESCAPE ZONE) where meteor has an advantage because it has 3 times of NO ESCAPE ZONE as compare at conventional BVR (dual pulse rocket motor) ones

Conventional BVR aim120abc& pl-12 and russian equivalents are all single burn BVRs

The new gen BVRs that are just coming into service are pulse rocket ones
Aim120d&pl15 are still very new not widely adopted

 

[dbc]

agreed, there are pros and cons of each weapon but at range they both have the same concept. Go high, gain speed then descend near your target, finally use proximity fuse to take the target out

No, it largely depends on the distance to target. AIM 120D is one of the few radar guided missiles that can be employed WVR. Within Visual Range 'go high' and descend is not really an option.

 

[21st Century Vampire]

Why did the chinese and americans abandone that is not known but rumors were high operational costs.

They didn't opt ramjet propulsion for the AIM-260 as well, if it's still part of their liste de plans it will most probably be in the form of another AIM 120 variant