Devyani Khobragade case: India sets up special group

[Srinivas]

Devyani Khobragade case: India sets up special group

NEW DELHI: With India determined not to relent on its demand for the US to formally apologize on the handcuffing and strip-search of its envoy Devyani Khobragade, a special group of experts, including in international law, would be meeting on Monday to discuss the case.

The US has been quiet on the matter for the past few days on account of most senior officials going on end-of-year leave for Christmas and New Year.

The meeting of the group of experts, set up by foreign secretary Sujatha Singh, is indicative of India's firm resolve to pursue the matter to the end, said sources.

The group would comprise experts in international law, finance, human resource, and international organizations, among others. They would follow up on all Khobragade related developments.

The group would also scrutinize the information on the wages being paid by US diplomats in India to their Indian staff to see if was on par with the US standards.

Khobragade, India's deputy consul general in New York, was arrested for alleged visa fraud and underpaying her nanny Sangeeta Richard — charges she has denied. Khobragade was handcuffed and strip-searched, a development which has caused outrage in India.

India has demanded that the US take back charges against Khobragade and tender an apology.

While the US maintained that she was a consular official and not under diplomatic immunity, India has said Khobragade was concurrently an advisor to India's permanent mission at the UN from April this year, which gave her full diplomatic immunity.

India has sought details from the US embassy and its consulates on the number of Indian staff on their rolls and the wages paid to them.

India has already withdrawn the airport passes given to US diplomats in India and the special diplomatic identity cards issued to them as part of reciprocal measures after the arrest of the envoy.

Devyani Khobragade case: India sets up special group - The Times of India

 

[Solomon2]

What seems to be missing are the people India needs to apply foreign laws - as mandated by the Consular and Diplomatic Conventions - in India's domestic courts.

 

[IndoUS]

As I say again don't give special privileges to anyone. And these type of things won't happen.

 

[shiv]

As I say again don't give special privileges to anyone. And these type of things won't happen.

Point is you first warn and then start throwing them out of your country if they dont apply ! U dont smack them with your law books !

 

[acid rain]

Point is you first warn and then start throwing them out of your country if they dont apply ! U dont smack them with your law books !

Point is, the foreign ministry, based on the assumption that the US is an ally thought so too and would inform before going on to arrest a diplomat or take away the maids family on the sly.

 

[shiv]

Point is, the foreign ministry, based on the assumption that the US is an ally thought so too and would inform before going on to arrest a diplomat or take away the maids family on the sly.

yeah ! If laws have been changed send a a demarche or something and if Indians or whoever dont toe the line throw her out of your country ..

as simple as that .. throwing diplomats out is itself quite demeaning as such and doesnt look gross also at the same time !

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

What seems to be missing are the people India needs to apply foreign laws - as mandated by the Consular and Diplomatic Conventions - in India's domestic courts.

What foreign Laws? Vienna convention laws U mean?

 

[Solomon2]

What foreign Laws? Vienna convention laws U mean?

Yeah, stuff like the Vienna Conventions which demand a diplomat follow laws of the host country, not those of the home country. Sometimes a dip will commit a crime or offense that is properly prosecuted and settled under the Conventions and by the laws of the host country, yet the dip will jump home and argue in court there that what he did wasn't a crime by the laws of his home country. If the courts aren't educated about the Conventions and laws of the host country, they will let the dip go instead of enforcing judgments and fines as called for by treaty.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Yeah, stuff like the Vienna Conventions which demand a diplomat follow laws of the host country, not those of the home country. Sometimes a dip will commit a crime or offense that is properly prosecuted and settled under the Conventions and by the laws of the host country, yet the dip will jump home and argue in court there that what he did wasn't a crime by the laws of his home country. If the courts aren't educated about the Conventions and laws of the host country, they will let the dip go instead of enforcing judgments and fines as called for by treaty.

But still there is a case of "limited immunity" for consular officials and they can be prosecuted for a "grave crime". Was this case , a grave crime, really?

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Excellent news.

Its about time we did something of this sort.

Time to form a special group to track US consulate members and their families and identify all the crimes committed by them in India and all their various violation of Indian laws and throw them in jail.

Subject them to the full force of Indian law.

This was a long time due. I am glad the arrest and humiliation of the Indian diplomat has finally woken up the foreign ministry.

But still there is a case of "limited immunity" for consular officials and they can be prosecuted for a "grave crime". Was this case , a grave crime, really?

You are wasting your time talking sense with his kind.

They understand the language of force and intimidation. First arrest US consulate members and their families and then talk to people like him.

You will see how quickly they tone down their arrogance and behave civilized.

 

[Solomon2]

But still there is a case of "limited immunity" for consular officials and they can be prosecuted for a "grave crime". Was this case , a grave crime, really?

The U.N. and I.C.C. class human trafficking - which is what Khobragade was doing - as a "grave crime". That's why she was arrested, whereas the Russians who committed mass fraud a few months back were not - such fraud doesn't meet the 'grave crime' standard.

Time to form a special group to track US consulate members and their families and identify all the crimes committed by them in India and all their various violation of Indian laws and throw them in jail.

And if the "special group" comes up with nothing, then what?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The U.N. and I.C.C. class human trafficking - which is what Khobragade was doing - as a "grave crime". That's why she was arrested, whereas the Russians who committed mass fraud a few months back were not - such fraud doesn't meet the 'grave crime' standard.

And if the "special group" comes up with nothing, then what?

You know very well it was not "human trafficking" and I hope yu know the meaning of what u mentioned. Sangeetha agreed to the contract and then came here. It was not that she was "duped". She was paid the promised salary, stayed, ate in her home etc.
She wanted more salary, thats it and the case. There was no complaint of abuse either.

Excellent news.

Its about time we did something of this sort.

Time to form a special group to track US consulate members and their families and identify all the crimes committed by them in India and all their various violation of Indian laws and throw them in jail.

Subject them to the full force of Indian law.

This was a long time due. I am glad the arrest and humiliation of the Indian diplomat has finally woken up the foreign ministry.



You are wasting your time talking sense with his kind.

They understand the language of force and intimidation. First arrest US consulate members and their families and then talk to people like him.

You will see how quickly they tone down their arrogance and behave civilized.

He is a nice and a knowledgable member. Just cos how badly we argue here, US govt is not going to see the discussion here and release her.
Ya, I do believe, the official who helped her family to go US, by getting tickets for diplomats should be arrested.

 

[Sashan]

You know very well it was not "human trafficking" and I hope yu know the meaning of what u mentioned. Sangeetha agreed to the contract and then came here. It was not that she was "duped". She was paid the promised salary, stayed, ate in her home etc.
She wanted more salary, thats it and the case. There was no complaint of abuse either.


He is a nice and a knowledgable member. Just cos how badly we argue here, US govt is not going to see the discussion here and release her.
Ya, I do believe, the official who helped her family to go US, by getting tickets for diplomats should be arrested.

What is being seen in the media is just one side of the story. Devyani's father's and Devyani's attorney's stories. We never heard anything about Sangeetha's. Haven't we?

But beyond that

1. The visa fraud charges are there which in itself is a serious crime and there is prima facie evidence - Clearly the electronic document - DS-160 was filed from Devyani's computer and the salary quoted in the document and what Devyani's attorney says is Devyani's salary(instead of the maid's) points to Devyani filing the document as the maid would not know Devyani's salary(and the agent filing the case has clearly mentioned that Devyani filed the DS-160 in the case details). And the wage contract drawn for A3 visa purposes(different from what Devyani drew up for Rs 30,000) is there with the US DOS and the agent has mentioned reviewing it for the salary quoted.

2. Human Trafficking charges may or may not stick if the maid claims working overtime etc etc but I think the blunder was committed by over-zealous Delhi police at the instigation of someone in the MEA(or due to the influence of her father) -

FIR was filed for non-cooperation of her husband in tracking her. Are there any priors in India where case against a accused's family filed for non-cooperation? Even including IM terrorists? None. See the description under William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 under which Devyani would be tried. The threat to the maid's family is what will be projected by DA's office(as can be deduced from his statement regarding the use of word "evacuation" in moving the maid's family). Ofcourse the jury will lap it up when DA will paint the picture of harassment of maid's family.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

What is being seen in the media is just one side of the story. Devyani's father's and Devyani's attorney's stories. We never heard anything about Sangeetha's. Haven't we?

But beyond that

1. The visa fraud charges are there and there is prima facie evidence which in itself is a serious charge - Clearly the electronic document - DS-160 was filed from Devyani's computer and the salary quoted in the document and what Devyani's attorney says is Devyani's salary(instead of the maid's) points to Devyani filing the document as the maid would not know Devyani's salary(and the agent filing the case has clearly mentioned that in the case details). And the wage contract drawn for A3 visa purposes(different from what Devyani drew up for Rs 30,000) is there with the US DOS and the agent has mentioned reviewing it for the salary quoted.

2. Human Trafficking charges may or may not stick if the maid claims working overtime etc etc but I think the blunder was committed by over-zealous Delhi police at the instigation of someone in the MEA(or due to the influence of her father) -

FIR was filed for non-cooperation of her husband in tracking her. Are there any priors in India where case against a accused's family filed for non-cooperation? Even including IM terrorists? None. See the description under William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 under which Devyani would be tried. The threat to the maid's family is what will be projected by DA's office(as can be deduced from his statement regarding the use of word "evacuation" in moving the maid's family). Ofcourse the jury will lap it up when DA will paint the picture of harassment of maid's family.

View attachment 12745

I read ur attachment. Just tell me, even Preet Bharara have not accused Devyani of abuse, beating, sexual abuse etc. Devyani's husband also treated her well. Well working beyond hours, how do u prove that? Particularly, when she is staying & eating with her.
When Devyani's kids run to her Maid's room to play, is it work? And there was no cheating of money, whatsover. She was paid the promised amount as per agreement btw Devyani and Sangeetha.
None of the explanation you had provided in ur attached photo, explain the "human trafficking" in this case.
The maid wanted more pay, and it seems she had demanded more money through an org in USA.
Secondly Delhi police shouldnt have filed an FIR( I agree with you).
Thirdly, it was no grave crime. Sangeetha was not abused, nor beaten up or exploited sexually. She complained of over-time and payment.
And Diplomats cannot be handcuffed, and treated like normal local criminals according to vienna conventions. So its US double standards as usual.
So its ok for you if the US diplomat is arrsted in India for not paying taxes for getting diplomatic tickets for Sangeetha family? (Diplomat got tax free tickets) and American schools in India, and US citizens working in it, do not pay taxes. Is it okay if we arrest?

 

[Sashan]

I read ur attachment. Just tell me, even Preet Bharara have not accused Devyani of abuse, beating, sexual abuse etc. Devyani's husband also treated her well. Well working beyond hours, how do u prove that? Particularly, when she is staying & eating with her.
When Devyani's kids run to her Maid's room to play, is it work? And there was no cheating of money, whatsover. She was paid the promised amount as per agreement btw Devyani and Sangeetha.
None of the explanation you had provided in ur attached photo, explain the "human trafficking" in this case.
The maid wanted more pay, and it seems she had demanded more money through an org in USA.
Secondly Delhi police shouldnt have filed an FIR( I agree with you).
Thirdly, it was no grave crime. Sangeetha was not abused, nor beaten up or exploited sexually. She complained of over-time and payment.
And Diplomats cannot be handcuffed, and treated like normal local criminals according to vienna conventions. So its US double standards as usual.
So its ok for you if the US diplomat is arrsted in India for not paying taxes for getting diplomatic tickets for Sangeetha family? (Diplomat got tax free tickets) and American schools in India, and US citizens working in it, do not pay taxes. Is it okay if we arrest?

In the he said-she said story, Devyani might have won the case. But the blunder of the Delhi police is going to weigh in with the jury heavily when DA paints a picture for the jury.


Not sure who filed the tickets. If it is a diplomat, he will have full immunity. If it is a consular official, he has immunity for official business - the tax evasion, if any would come under his official business - unlike Devyani's which is a personal business and does not qualify for immunity under Vienna Conventions. There is no double standard here - Devyani is a consular officer and not a diplomat unlike Neena Malhotra who was let go of by US on similar charges due to her full immunity a year back.

Beyond that, whether one can be handcuffed or not - you know my position and I think I know yours. Lets not go there as it is pointless to discuss it.

And regarding American schools in India - not sure about the US citizens working and not paying taxes but I know that the wives of many consular officials work for no pay(just like many Americans do in different countries - clarifying if you raise the question are they stupid to work without pay) How do I know? I have a family member run a pet shop near the diplomatic enclave in Delhi and have these teachers as customers and I personally know one of them who has moved back to US.