Declining marriage rate affects everyone in US.

[FairAndUnbiased]

Western society has 'progressed' to where women are working. Before, a single income was needed to keep a household prosperous. Now a double income is needed simply to survive. Rising living standards?

Yes, Mgtow is losers, sure. It however shows to what extent American men are burned that many go down this path.

A lot of American men aren't complaining about women per se, thay are complaining about American women. Hence the drive to foreign shores for a spouse.

It's sour grapes. They can't attract white American women.

 

[Shazzad123]

It's sour grapes. They can't attract white American women.

Attracting white American women is easy if you don't rely on your paycheck or status to do it. Ive seen guys in third world countries who can't speak English attract white American girls and their green cards approved.

 

[jamal18]

It's sour grapes. They can't attract white American women.

Yep, that is one factor.

 

[Zibago]

Not good news. When marriage dies moral decay sets in. Without stable families society will not be stable either.
Idiots have taken liberalism to extreme ends.

You have government sponsoring transgender conversion for minors on top of historic low birth rates

It really is a society in decline

They will be replaced by immigrants with more conventional values and norms

 

[VCheng]

Disagree. I have to deal with related economic trends like these to help maintain my understanding of the economy and of current + future market conditions, I do this on a daily basis almost, and it's a part of my job and core competency. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that low long-term trend rates of growth, deflationary trends, secular stagnation, fiscal viability, are all part of a growing problem in the West that in large part stems from having ageing populations. And if it were not for high levels of immigration, we'd be even worse off, and our projections would be considerably bleaker. I stick wholeheartedly by my characterisation of these as "decline and decay".

I of course respect your knowledge in this area, and agree with the above, specially the importance of immigration in improving the demographic balance.

This is a major issue, and it has everything to do with marriage and birth rates. It's why governments are allowing high levels of immigration despite the lack of popularity of these policies, and they are just recently waking up and offering better paternity leave and child care subsidies etc.

The part in bold is the issue, since that causality is not strong at all. Countries with high marriage rates (eg China) are having the same demographic issues as those with low marriage rates ( eg the "West"). Conversely, some countries (eg Scandinavia) have relatively stable demographics while having low marriage rates.

 

[Sifar zero]

I hope Pakistan does not become like this until I grow up if it does then no wife for me.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I of course respect your knowledge in this area, and agree with the above, specially the importance of immigration in improving the demographic balance.

The part in bold is the issue, since that causality is not strong at all. Countries with high marriage rates (eg China) are having the same demographic issues as those with low marriage rates ( eg the "West"). Conversely, some countries (eg Scandinavia) have relatively stable demographics while having low marriage rates.

Sometimes, I don't think it's necessary to wait for some world-beating metanalysis of studies to establish a view on a possible link between some observable trends. There are tidbits of information out there about declining fertility rates coinciding with falling marriage rates.

It may not be the case as you said that marriage rates per se are a major contributing factor, they could be in fact just another symptom of another underlying causes, or a confounding variable, or a mix of a cause, and an effect, as well as a confounding variable; this type of collinearity is impossible to escape.

The only study I've ever read on the subject was from East Asia, and it looked at women's demographic changes and their participation in the labour force, as it attempted to see the effect that these had on the fertility rate. I think the participation of women in the labour force was found to have a significant impact, but the impact of marriage rates was less pronounced. However, these conclusions were really of questionable utility. I know that where we are able to measure something quantitatively (labour force participation vs fertility rates), you get really nice time-series data with which you can build models, factor out other variables and arrive at really neat conclusion. Trying to quantify the impact of cultural changes, figuring out appropriate models for somethings that are this convoluted, that's another matter.

IMO trends such as people are choosing to settle down later in life, higher women's labour force participation, people being forced to stay in education until later, and the decline of marriage, these must all be contributing to the decline in fertility rate. I see a lot of people waiting to get married, couples unable to afford the time or recourses to have a kid, I also see some couples naively waiting, I see men and women (the latter unwisely) delaying marriage and/or serious relationships. It seems pretty clear to me that cultural changes are undoubtedly slowing things down and contributing to falling fertility rates.

 

[VCheng]

It seems pretty clear to me that cultural changes are undoubtedly slowing things down and contributing to falling fertility rates.

That I can agree with, given that the many factors that you have mentioned in your post are probably more important than contractual marriage, given the data from across the world.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Attracting white American women is easy if you don't rely on your paycheck or status to do it. Ive seen guys in third world countries who can't speak English attract white American girls and their green cards approved.

As long as you can hold a job, have something interesting to talk about and don't have a huge ego, you are right, American women are friendly and understanding. Unfortunately for these mgtow guys they are the opposite: poor, boring and arrogant.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

The cat is out of the bag..Marriage rates are not going to return in Western countries....whatever spike that may be seen is due to first generation immigrants and that's about it....You cannot have both female empowerment/sexual revolution and high marriage rates in the same society....better would be how to build a post-marriage society

 

[VCheng]

better would be how to build a post-marriage society

Many countries are in such a transitional period already.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Many countries are in such a transitional period already.

On a more human level, more men need to take testosterone to have extra strength, mental acuity , muscle mass as they grow into their 60s and 70s...women should also go into hromone replacement therapy after menopause to remove lethargy and have more vitality....A lot of men in previous generations depended on the strength of their sons for many tasks (be it physical labour regarding hauling, moving, fixing or show of strength in some altercation)......That luxury won't be their for many men going forward

 

[Zibago]

Many countries are in such a transitional period already.

The only real solution I see is artificial wombs and government set quotas on births per year if immigration on a mass scale isnt allowed

 

[VCheng]

The only real solution I see is artificial wombs and government set quotas on births per year if immigration on a mass scale isnt allowed

Making a baby is easy (there are artificial wombs already). It is raising a productive and conscientious member of a vibrant society that is the hard part.

On a more human level, more men need to take testosterone to have extra strength, mental acuity , muscle mass as they grow into their 60s and 70s...women should also go into hromone replacement therapy after menopause to remove lethargy and have more vitality....A lot of men in previous generations depended on the strength of their sons for many tasks (be it physical labour regarding hauling, moving, fixing or show of strength in some altercation)......That luxury won't be their for many men going forward

HRT has both pros and cons.

 

[SQ8]

@Jungibaaz @VCheng how much of it in layman percentage would be marital or social rather and how much is economics?

I could probably paste a dozen articles on how millennial lifestyle and economic stratification versus boomers makes it much much more difficult to maintain a family structure.

The current housing market inflation may seem like a supply issue but it directly impacts couples looking to “settle down” and put roots

Also, marriage is measured in licenses whereas couples living together (probably just holding off for a big day or not ready to commit) that doesn’t speak to the actual social constructs of offspring.