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DEAR INDIANS,What exactly is anti-national about shouting ‘Pakistan zindabad'??

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What exactly is anti-national about shouting ‘Pakistan zindabad'?
It’s worth trying to understand what is meant by 'anti-national'.
Dilip D’Souza · Today · 06:30 pm
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Some months ago, Barkha Dutt was in Mumbai to record a “We The People” show about the execution of 1993 serial blasts convict Yakub Memon. At one point nearing the end, Dutt offered the mike to a young and clearly Muslim woman in the audience. This woman spoke briefly about her sense that justice is selectively applied in this country, and the insecurity she felt as a result.

How many people agreed with her, I don’t know. But her words seemed to ruffle a few feathers in the room. As I was leaving, a man came up and said, pointing to the woman: “How can she talk like that? These people held a big funeral for Memon! How is that supposed to make the rest of us feel about them? Isn’t that anti-national?”

His anguish, his discomfort over what had happened at Memon’s funeral, was clearly genuine. Therefore I was sure he would remember, as many of us do, another funeral in this city in late 2012.

Selective memory

Referring to the man who had died then, Justice BN Srikrishna’s inquiry report into the 1992-'93 massacres in this city said that he was “like a veteran General [who] commanded his loyal Shiv Sainiks to retaliate by organised attacks against Muslims.” During those same massacres, the man who had died wrote several editorials in his party mouthpiece making many statements about his fellow-Indians. One such statement was this:

“Pakistan need not cross the border and attack India. 25 crore Muslims in India will stage an armed insurrection. They form one of Pakistan’s seven atomic bombs.”

These lines effectively labelled an entire section of Indians traitors by virtue of their religion. So consider them in the light of Section 153B of the Indian Penal Code, which says:

“Whoever, by words either spoken or written, makes any imputation that any class of people cannot, by reason of their being members of any religious group, bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India... shall be punished with imprisonment up to three years or fine or both.”

Did that editorial violate Section 153B?

For this man’s funeral procession, perhaps two million people poured onto the streets, dwarfing any funeral – or any event, really – before or since. For his cremation, he was wrapped in the Indian flag and given a gun salute. The spot where his pyre stood remains as a memorial to him; the government of Maharashtra is considering allotting land for a bigger memorial to him, and is actually building it using public money. In other words, millions of Indians this man called traitorous will actually contribute towards a memorial to him. How is all this supposed to make the rest of us feel? A photographer who covered the event found an answer in his father’sreaction:

“I told him he got state honours and his face sank… As I was about to leave, he asked, still unsure if I had told him correctly, ‘They gave him a gun salute?’”

Points to ponder

At Dutt’s show, in the space of a half-minute or so, I tried to tell the anguished man all this. I’m not sure he fully grasped what I was getting at, but he did look at me in some astonishment. I’m not sure why.

“Anti-national” is an empty, meaningless and yet destructive label to fling about. And as we all know, it has been flung about a great deal in recent days and weeks, especially on two well-known university campuses.

Merely saying it is meaningless, though, may not persuade anyone. After all, recent days and weeks also suggest that plenty of us are falling over ourselves and each other to call people anti-national. So perhaps it’s worth asking some questions instead:

  • If you distribute swords to a crowd that then slaughters several dozen Indians, is that distribution anti-national?
  • If such a sword-distributor is subsequently appointed as a minister, is that appointment anti-national?
  • If you become rich beyond any known source of income because you dip liberally into public money, is that dipping anti-national?
  • If you lie in performing your constitutional and judicial duties, is such lying anti-national? If you applaud such lying, is such applause anti-national?
  • If you pronounce that you will not be bound by the verdict of this country’s courts, is that pronouncement anti-national?
  • If you label one in every six Indians anti-national because of their religion, is such labelling anti-national? In fact, if you label anyone anti-national, is such labelling anti-national?
  • If you beat up journalists doing their jobs, is such beating anti-national?
I could go on, of course. But perhaps the point is clear. If you are really intent on painting some people as anti-national for some reason, you should be aware that others will find equally good reason, using irrefutable logic, to paint your heroes – maybe even you – as anti-national too.

At a meeting I attended in the wake of the JNU fracas, a burly lawyer rose from his seat. Given what some lawyers had been up to in Delhi, this might have set off a ripple of unease in the room. But this man walked to the front and mounted a passionate defence of JNU and free speech. Among other things, he suggested that the true test of a commitment to free speech comes when the speech offends – even, or especially, to the extent that you are tempted to lash out with that label “anti-national”.

“So I want to know,” he asked, “exactly what is anti-national about shouting ‘Pakistan zindabad’.”

Worth a thought.
 
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Because the hatred of Pakistan is what defines and unites an otherwise exceedingly dissimilar and diverse Indian population. For an Indian to gain the "Desh Bhagt" certificate he must shun all notions of any positive opinions about Pakistan. India has presented Pakistanis as the antithesis of Indians who represent everything that is there to despise. Since this notion has been deeply rooted inside the Indian mind, the Govt in India no matter who it maybe won't tolerate Pakistan Zindabad because it exposes the failure of their Indian cultural project.
 
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There is nothing anti-national in chanting Pakistan Zindabad.. if it is purely not meant to antagonize.
Why play the fool and purely try to see it based on semantics. The Pakistan Zindabad comes at the end of "Bharat ki Barbaadi" and chants in support of terrorists who are opposed to the very idea of a non-muslim south asian. Hence, the anti-nationalism.

I have supported Pakistan in cricket matches, and so have many of my friends.. In other incidents too.. Obviously, when there was no India involved.

Now to the mod who passed a smart-*** comment, go and ask Virat Kohli's fan what is anti-nationalism. Try doing the same in Pak and you wouldn't live to tell the tale. Also, don't get me started on the experimental project of banging together a group of people on the basis of some imaginary sky beard and military barbarism.
 
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Because the hatred of Pakistan is what defines and unites an otherwise exceedingly dissimilar and diverse Indian population. For an Indian to gain the "Desh Bhagt" certificate he must shun all notions of any positive opinions about Pakistan. India has presented Pakistanis as the antithesis of Indians who represent everything that is there to despise. Since this notion has been deeply rooted inside the Indian mind, the Govt in India no matter who it maybe won't tolerate Pakistan Zindabad because it exposes the failure of their Indian cultural project.

You jailed a man for 10 years simply becuz he waved the Indian flag.
 
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Hatred for Great Britain is what united people of India and therefore gave them a national identity.

And now it's the hatred for Pakistan that unites people. We must never forget the atrocities committed on Capt Saurabh Kalia after Kargil War. It could have been your relative at the place of Capt Saurabh Kalia. Supporting Pakistan indeed is anti-national. Our tolerance need not be mistaken with timidity.

P.S. Pakistan here means the state machinery of Pakistan and not the common people like you and me.
 
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Let me put this in perspective.

When the Kargil war was going on you go to kargil and wave the paksitani flag and ask what is so anti national about waving the pakistani flag.

When the nations are at war, it is anti -national to support your enemy nation.

We are at an undeclared war with pakistan and pakistan has done its best to kill as many Indians as possible. Is this attack on India acceptable ? is supporting pakistan and encouraging them to kill more Indaians acceptable ?

Someone needs to tell "secular" Dilip D'suza why supporting terrorists is anti-national and not freedom of speech.
 
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how can some idiot mba or software engineer in bangalore or poona or madras wear a t-shirt with a 'union jack' ( the flag of india's former colonizer ) or a usa flag ( whose government is a serial genocider and war-criminal ) but that said idiot is not jailed or lynched??

India doesn't have conflict of interest with USA and UK to the extent of Pakistan. Pakistan is an arch enemy of India.
 
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India doesn't have conflict of interest with USA and UK to the extent of Pakistan. Pakistan is an arch enemy of India.

it is of utmost shame that the indian establishment does not have conflict of interest with the genociding and war-criminal governments and militaries and intelligence agencies of britain and usa :)

Hatred for Great Britain is what united people of India and therefore gave them a national identity.

And now it's the hatred for Pakistan that unites people.

so your food is hatred, whether or not intellectually justified, whether or not needed??

just like how some regional chauvinists in india presently hate foreigners just for being foreign but never hesitate to enter imperialist-military and capitalist-economic alliance with the governments of the same foreigners, the same way if ever the sanghis opposed the british government of india for a occasion or two it was because the britishers were foreigners and not because they were oppressive colonizers... this we can gauge from two things : (a). the total co-operation of the pre-1947 sangh with the britishers, (b). the sangh having no problems with the inherent oppressiveness and injustice of traditional and background indian society after 1947.

to add - the leftists in pre-1947 india didn't hate the british colonizers for being british ( which would be racism ) but because the britisher were colonizers... leftists know what freedom means... the sanghis, defending a ideology of oppression, capitalism, injustice, don't know the meaning of freedom. :)

We are at an undeclared war with pakistan

i struggle to understand this.

and pakistan has done its best to kill as many Indians as possible.

300,000 indian farmers suicided just between 1995 and 2015... 250,000 indians suicided just in 2012... many tea estate workers in darjeeling died of hunger in late 2014... rohith vemula suicided not so long ago... and so on.

were pakistanis the reason for all this?? please present a count of indians killed by pakistan.

why is 'sks microfinance' being allowed to continue instead of being presented before a firing squad??

the indian establishment's rifles, tanks and artillery pieces are pointed in the wrong direction.
 
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it is of utmost shame that the indian establishment does not have conflict of interest with the genociding and war-criminal governments and militaries and intelligence agencies of britan and usa :)
If you happen using the word shame then we wont move in this world, Japan would still be struck in nuclear waste. Be practical and move on. Just for argument sake dont bring the Pseudo nationalism. And as far Pakistan is concerned we all know why they cant be equaled with US and UK relations. Hell sometimes we dont even care a hoot even for certain defence deals when it comes to Russia and France. Its called smartness and not shame.

300,000 indian farmers suicided just between 1995 and 2015... 250,000 indians suicided just in 2012... many tea estate workers in darjeeling died of hunger in late 2014... rohith vemula suicided not so long ago... and so on.

were pakistanis the reason for all this??

why is 'sks microfinance' being allowed to continue instead of being presented before a firing squad??

the indian establishment's rifles, tanks and artillery pieces are pointed in the wrong direction.
So that makes an excuse for you to justify Pakistan? Great going carry on.... Every country has internal and external threats dont forget them. We deal with them how it suits us. Pakistan being a external threat and these so called leftist ideas being an internal threat supporting those external threat. It s not only Pakistan but any country.
 
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If you happen using the word shame then we wont move in this world, Japan would still be struck in nuclear waste.

150,000+ libyans were killed by nato forces and their terrorist proxies from the start of 2011 to the end end of 2012... in the nato-imposed syrian international war, 250,000+ syrians have been killed between 2011 and 2016... the syrian war is in its sixth year and who knows how long it will continue.

the korea war of 1950-53 had four million north koreans killed through the invasion by nato... here, israel government and its supporters in the western capitals keep talking of six million jews killed by the nazis in germany... how are jews holier than north koreans?? has israel govenrment and its zionist backers in the west moved on?? can you go into a western country and declare that you do not believe in the "six million jews killed" story without fear of arrest?? :)

about your reference to japan, you know the libyan jamahiriya got italy to pay a reparation money of five billion dollars because italy had once been the colonizer of libya and had done great many a crime there... it is shameful that the japanese governments since 1945 have been so slavish to usa governments.

the socialists of japan must bring back their movement into prominence like they were in the 80's... the japanese government of now plus the japanese monarchy ( in this day and age?? ) must be overthrown.

there is no alternative to socialism.

Be practical and move on. Just for argument sake dont bring the Pseudo nationalism.

i was never a nationalist... please see my signature. :)

i was always a internationalist.

And as far Pakistan is concerned we all know why they cant be equaled with US and UK relations. Hell sometimes we dont even care a hoot even for certain defence deals when it comes to Russia and France. Its called smartness and not shame.

you know, the difference between the eastern/southern bloc and the nato bloc is that the former does not operate on "smartness" and national interests and cynicism but on common sense and eternal laws of justice. :)

certainly that former does make mistakes like sometimes not engaging in military opposition when required, like russia did not militarily support libyan jamahiriya in 2011 and to syria for the first four-and-half years of the syrian war, but over all it is what i said.
 
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Because the hatred of Pakistan is what defines and unites an otherwise exceedingly dissimilar and diverse Indian population. For an Indian to gain the "Desh Bhagt" certificate he must shun all notions of any positive opinions about Pakistan. India has presented Pakistanis as the antithesis of Indians who represent everything that is there to despise. Since this notion has been deeply rooted inside the Indian mind, the Govt in India no matter who it maybe won't tolerate Pakistan Zindabad because it exposes the failure of their Indian cultural project.
tell that to the guy who is in jail for being a fan of Virat Kohli!
 
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what kind of dumb question is this? the reason is everything.
  • pakistan has a documented decades of history of sponsoring and training terrorists specially for India , that's why.
  • pakistan stared and fought 4* wars with India , that's why.
  • pakistan illegally holds P.0.K which India has legal claim to, that's why.
  • pakistan has openly harbored & glorified , one of the most wanted terrorists in the world, thats why.
  • pakistan has openly mocked & refereed to India as enemies , that's why.
  • pakistan politicians openly use nuke threats at India, that's why.
 
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