Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Jason bourne]

Vishal Thaper twited

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@thaparvishal Vishal Thapar
#MMRCA: Eurofighter rep summoned to MoD today, as competition for 126 fighters enters last lap. Is it for a verdict or a clarification?



Remember he is the one who broke the story of EF and Rafale being shortlisted before anyone else and months before the official announcement.


Keep track of him....

livefist Livefist Blog
On #MMRCA, @thaparvishal says Eurofighter rep summoned to MoD 2day. (EADS & MoD officially deny this, but trying to figure if there's more).

 

[tvsram1992]

And of a country that is 5 times bigger than us ? ... What makes you so proud then ? Shall we start a comparison of India and China here ? ... May be helpful to show you your true face ...

You decided that ur own country cant even stand in a debate with India in its own forum.

 

[tvsram1992]

In Soviet Rusia,Bid wins Rafale

Lol how can bid win rafale

 

[Jason bourne]

europeon shares hit 5-months high .. looks like traders got the news

 

[KS]

After all these years can somebody please tell which is better - Rafale or EFT. The more I read about it, the more I get confused.

Where is Sancho and Prateek ?

livefist Livefist Blog
On #MMRCA, @thaparvishal says Eurofighter rep summoned to MoD 2day. (EADS & MoD officially deny this, but trying to figure if there's more).

Two reasons - either a heads up that they have won or they have lost.

I am still hoping for the Rafale.

 

[anathema]

After all these years can somebody please tell which is better - Rafale or EFT. The more I read about it, the more I get confused.

Where is Sancho and Prateek ?





Two reasons - either a heads up that they have won or they have lost.

I am still hoping for the Rafale.

KS,

I think both EF and Rafale are good in their own terms ..the one thing that is absolutely going for Rafale is - it is a matured and proven platform and by virtue of a single country behind it - is less bureaucratic. Consortium has its own challenges.

Also looks wise , i think i like french ..the mix of all nationalities is just too much for me.


Hope MoD and IAF makes sensible decision.

Sacnho is pretty much there - Prateek is absconding.

 

[rockstarIN]

Hopefully the wait is over today..!!

 

[sancho]

After all these years can somebody please tell which is better - Rafale or EFT. The more I read about it, the more I get confused.

Where is Sancho and Prateek ?

Advantages Rafale (for India):

- ready
- proven
- easier to induct
- at least 5% cheaper per unit
- cheaper to operate
- technologically more advanced
- high upgrade level and good future potential
- variety of available weapons
- 1 fighter for IAFs and INs needs
- fits perfectly in size and capability to LCA and MKI
- most reliable by long term experience
- best for future co-developments


Advantages EF (for India):

- good A2A capabilities
- very good offset offer including production partnership
- Consortium and partners are highly desperate
- political and economical advantages of 4 countries


The question is what is more important for GoI/MoD, the requirements of our forces or the requirements of the industry, because that might be the important factors!

 

[Secur]

You decided that ur own country cant even stand in a debate with India in its own forum.

Isn't it obvious that your budget will be higher than us ? Or are you using some other unique logic ?

What debate for one though ?

 

[The enlightened]

KS,

I think both EF and Rafale are good in their own terms ..the one thing that is absolutely going for Rafale is - it is a matured and proven platform and by virtue of a single country behind it - is less bureaucratic. Consortium has its own challenges.

Also looks wise , i think i like french ..the mix of all nationalities is just too much for me.


Hope MoD and IAF makes sensible decision.

Sacnho is pretty much there - Prateek is absconding.

How is it a 'matured and proven platform'
And please don't say Libya.
The only thing it proved was Hammer, not Rafale. A F-105 class a/c with Litening-III could have done the job.
It might be more field tested than EF though.

 

[anathema]

How is it a 'matured and proven platform'
And please don't say Libya.
The only thing it proved was Hammer, not Rafale. A F-105 class a/c with Litening-III could have done the job.
It might be more field tested than EF though.

Matured in terms of -
Weapon Integration - Integration with AtoG weapons is ready and available unlike EF which i believe has only Brimstone to count as a single AtoG weapon.
Radar - AESA radar ready & tested. Productionized by 2014. EF - i think we will see this by 2018 (optimistically speaking)
Future upgrades - Engine upgrades , Spectra upgrades , Integration with Meteor already in progress (Gripen and Rafale are ahead in this). By virtue of it being a consortium fighter - it has to take approval every tom and harry present - and you can imagine what's the rate of approval for a cash strapped economy.
Naval fighter ready - its still a paper dream for EF, not that it will matter for MRCA

Proven in both AF and Libya. Yeah you can say that what kind of opposition was present in AF and LIbya. Still Rafale was the first aircraft to go into action - knock out SAM batteries and was ready for Air Interdiction duties if presented.

Eurofighter literally had to struggle just to keep up its flight hours. It had to take assistance from Tornado to perform to AtoG roles , cannibalize to obtain spare parts ..etc. I would be extremely worried with this trend. At the current moment it is a superb AtoA fighter , but thats about it.

The thing is if India signs up for EF - then it will be sigh for relief for all the partnering nations. THey can offload their quote of Eurofighters onto India, the way Germany or Britan is trying to do !

 

[sancho]

@Sancho: The UAE have already stated that the Rafale deal is no longer workable. Instead, they are more interested in the Typhoon.
Double Trouble For Rafale in UAE

The UAE likes to play with the French and put fuel the media with false infos!

The same was reported about additional F16 B60, F18 Silent Hornet or even the latest F15, at the end it turned to be not true. The importan point is, that they don't have to replace the Mirage, they are doing it only in favour for France and only if they buy them in return. Neither the EF partners, nor the US can do the same and therefor are no serious option for the UAE. They either buy Rafale, or keep the M2K-9s, that's it!

France may be regretting to withdrew from the consortium fin 80's. Anyways joint production and research is the only way to go forward. Be it EF, F-35 or PAK FA.

If FAF is getting Rafales in less prices, who are gonna pay for the development costs? French Govt.

IS this the reason why Dessault is charging others high development cost?

No they don't and that for obvious reasons! Rafale development was cheaper and is more capable now, than the EF today. They would be dependent on partners that are close to bankrupt and had to fund most of the EF upgrades alone and wouldn't have carrier fighters now.
The lack of exports is a downer in the Rafale project, but otherwise it turned out to be exactly the way it should be, highly capable and advanced, with "reasonable" costs (there are not many twin engine fightes out their that are cheaper to operate).
EF on the other had is "said" to be the most capable and advanced fighter, but it isn't, while the costs exploded way beyond the partners ever planned and since upgrading and operating is so costly non of the partners will fulfill their initial orders.

The development costs are already paid by France, but they are lower than EFs, that's why the latter is still more costly, although way more units were produced.

 

[sancho]

unlike EF which i believe has only Brimstone to count as a single AtoG weapon.

No, not even that was integrated and the only chance to get it might be the Saudis paying for it.

 

[danger007]

i would like to see Typhoon in IAF and RAFALE in IN. there are rumors about the orders could raise to 189 fighter from 126, as it not possible to split the order between typhoon and rafale. I like to see rafale in IN.

 

[Rupeshkumar]

will there be any announcement today?