Dangerous delusions — Ertugrul mania

[padamchen]

On topic I am midway to the series and it resembles our customs too if you remove all talk of jihad and kill idolaters etc.

Over and all good series and we need to watch more their series to understand them better as their intentions doesn't heading to the right direction.

Agree.

Remember, for them the Pakistanis are the subjects they left behind.

 

[Sam.]

Agree.

Remember, for them the Pakistanis are the subjects they left behind.

Too late as by petro dollars they mostly are Arabs subject.

 

[padamchen]

Too late as by petro dollars they mostly are Arabs subject.

You know why I am pissed off with our ball cuddling the wrong side in the middle east.

 

[Sam.]

You know why I am pissed off with our ball cuddling the wrong side in the middle east.

Iran can not be trusted with recent events. As soon as sanctioned lifted they gave gas and oil field to China and Russia. We stood by them thick and thin in Washington but got backstabbed by their bania nature.

Ship has sailed, only a strong Persian wind can make it change it course.

Get that.

 

[Trango Towers]

The bolded part is enough to tell what kind of a backward person you are...people like you are hypocrites...you dont have an iota of shame in electing a man who is known to be one of the biggest playboys of his times as your PM...but you have the audacity to condemn women who have boyfriends.
Cross your heart and say that you have never watched a p@rn video? Crores of muslim men across the world watch p@rn when your quran says to lower your gaze when you come across women...such a hypocrite lot you are...peep into yourself and be the change that you talk abt before pointing fungers at women...
Women are neither slaves nor are they your property to impose your backward thinking on them( when you yourself dont follow what you say).

I think I have hit a nerve..perhaps you hindus drive yous sisters to their bf houses to get a good old seeing too in the name of womens liberation. But then again you have temples where you take your daughters and give them up for life of prostitution. That's not the norm here.
Regarding a playboy pm. Well at least he is good looking not like the ugly chai wala that you have.
Regarding ****....you indians rape and video tape it and post it in the net. So when you talk fix your own house...you are upset because your sister is banging everyone in you mohalla and you cant do shit about it. That is disgusting and shameful

Even children are not safe in your religious institutions which actively encourage

Remember you started this....you will run to the mods soon

 

[Cliftonite]

Try to understand why these libtards are so worried. He literally says it. Hoodbhoy rejects revival and glorification of anything Islam. These libtards are pro-RSS.

Pervez Hoodbhoy is a harami hypocrite. The very backstabbing characters being portrayed in Ertugrul. It is irony at its best.

What has Hoodbhoy done that is backstabbing? Have your politicians not backstabbed you? Or army? Sukoot-e-Dhaka kis ki waja se hua tha? You cannot be so sensitive to someone expressing their thoughts. He is not actively harming Pakistan, he is just speaking his mind. If you don't like it, then refute it.

This type of thinking is what is dangerous. And so similar to Sanghis. The thinking that; you're with us or against us. Anybody who disagrees with you is a friend of your enemy. Go read about the slip of Germany into Nazism. This is how it started.

Hoodbhoy is just saying that swordsmen and conquerors are not somebody we should be emulating; especially when they're not even related to us in anyway. You are calling him an RSS Sanghi. Waah bhai.

220 million Pakistanis cannot be pan Islamic mard-e-momins. You cannot force them to. Unless you learn to appreciate differences of thought, Pakistan can never advance. We will keep labelling our countrymen kafir and enemies of state. That is not a healthy state.

Islam itna kamzor nahi ke kisi ki tanqeed se mutassir hojaye.

 

[aryadravida]

I think I have hit a nerve..perhaps you hindus drive yous sisters to their bf houses to get a good old seeing too in the name of womens liberation. But then again you have temples where you take your daughters and give them up for life of prostitution. That's not the norm here.
Regarding a playboy pm. Well at least he is good looking not like the ugly chai wala that you have.
Regarding ****....you indians rape and video tape it and post it in the net. So when you talk fix your own house...you are upset because your sister is banging everyone in you mohalla and you cant do shit about it. That is disgusting and shameful

Remember you started this....you will run to the mods soon

You have not answered any of my questions ...I repeat women are neither your slaves nor are they your property...they can and one day will lead the lives the way they want to lead...it is happening in india and it will happen in pakistan...misogynists like you cant stop the change...women will get their freedom from the clutches of hypocrites and patriarchical people like you...the more you suppress them , the more they bounce back.

 

[khail007]

Pervez Hoodbhoy Updated June 06, 2020

The writer teaches physics in Lahore and Islamabad.


A TURKISH drama series brimming with tribal intrigues, blood, murder, and conquest — all wrapped in pious religious idiom — has taken Pakistan by storm. Filmed in Anatolia, Dirilis: Ertugrul is a 150-episode fictional account of Ertugrul Ghazi, father of the Ottoman Empire’s founder. As of yesterday (Friday), the YouTube count for the 30th Urdu-dubbed episode had already clocked up 5.5 million views on Pakistan Television.

Even those who made Dirilis are astonished — and hugely pleased — at its tumultuous welcome. Tribal Turkmen fighting for a homeland can’t be expected to capture the imagination of millions in some far-off country. But Pakistan is different. Transfixed, entire families are spending evenings watching it together. They think it is wholesome entertainment and genuine Islamic history.

What history? This is a free-wheeling caricature of 13th-century Anatolia of which we know next to nothing. Facts are not important, says Mehmet Bozdag, the man who wrote and produced the series. To quote: “There is very little information about the period we are presenting — not exceeding 4-5 pages. Even the names are different in every source. The first works written about the establishment of the Ottoman State were about 100-150 years later. There is no certainty in this historical data… we are shaping a story by dreaming.”

That this serial is frankly propagandistic and ideologically motivated is beyond doubt. It has been manufactured for a purpose. But what purpose?

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD
Faked history fuels revivalist dreams, creates false hopes, & suggests the way forward is through the sword.

If it seeks to project Islam as a religion of peace and to counter Islamophobia, then the very opposite is achieved. The first scene of the first episode begins with sword-making and sword-sharpening in the background of nomadic tents. The tribe’s adversaries are Christians and Byzantines whose bloodied bodies lie scattered here and there after every fight. The hero, Ertugrul Ghazi, not only beheads several Knight Templars but also former associates from his tribe, such as Kurdoglu Bey, who he suspects of disloyalty.

Should we be surprised if IS-like organisations find this inspirational? Is glorifying the sword glorifying Islam? Islam can surely be represented in ways more positive than putting a spotlight on power struggles within a tribal society. Far better, for example, would be to build upon Turkish scholars like Ali Qushgi, Taqi-al-Din, or Al-Jazari. Without Islam’s early scholars the colorful tapestry of Muslim culture — and Turkish culture as well — would have been far poorer, its claim to being a great world civilisation weak and unconvincing.

I suspect Dirilis’s real goal is less about Islam and more to vent Turkish nostalgia for a long-lost empire. Production demanded massive funding by the Turkish state. A horse farm was created, together with a special zoo-like area for the sheep, goats, nightingales and partridges that appear on the show. A Hollywood stunt team was hired to train actors for the movie’s staged fights. Erdogan and his family have repeatedly visited the filming site.

Understandably, from within the bastions of Sunni Islam the reaction to this blockbuster has been fiercely negative. Both the UAE and Saudi Arabia have condemned and banned the series, and Egyptian authorities have issued a fatwa decrying this “insidious attempt to re-impose Turkish tutelage” over Arab countries formerly under Ottoman rule. Currently, Saudi Arabia is reportedly funding a $40m counter series called Malik-e-Nar of which trailers have already been produced. Though inadequate it does make the point: Arabs cannot celebrate Turkish imperialism.

Most peoples don’t like invaders, but Pakistan’s psyche is somehow special. Perhaps overwhelmed by Erdogan’s aggressive style, Prime Minister Khan proudly tweeted that Turks had ruled India for 600 years. Historians will raise their eyebrows — this is between quarter-true to half-true only. But it must be rare for a prime minister to hail imperial rule over his land.

Khan is not alone. Pakistan celebrates all post-eighth century invasions beginning with Mohammed bin Qasim’s conquest of Sindh in 712 AD. Urdu novelist Nasim Hijazi’s books, devoured by millions, are an ode to the Arab conquest of India. Like filmmaker Mehmet Bozdag, Hijazi’s strength lay in creating imagery unconstrained by facts.

How should one look at ancient invasions and imperial conquests? To laud or vilify them is equally irrational. India is a stunningly clear example of just how much a society can degenerate if it does that. Hindu revivalism is fixated upon the wicked foreign invader who shattered the seraphic heaven of Mother India. Suddenly all Muslims and Christians became unwelcome. As Narendra Modi’s right-hand man recently declared, foreigners are termites infesting a poor man’s grain store.

But do Hindutva’s mindless ideologues not know that all human civilisation began in Africa and there is no such thing as son of Indian soil? That every single human society on earth today is the result of countless conflicts, wars, and foreign invasions over tens of thousands of years? That even precision DNA tests cannot tell the difference between Hindus and Muslims? These basic lessons are for all, not just Pakistan’s rulers.

A mature attitude towards ancient foreign invasions would be to simply accept them clinically as facts of history. They should be investigated and absorbed without either glorification or condemnation. Doing otherwise is utterly pointless. No one living today can be held responsible for the actions, good or bad, of his or her ancestors. Moreover the mists of time have forever hidden true facts from view.

The creators of Dirilis: Ertugrul want us to wallow in the past glories of others and celebrate imperialism. Hook, line and sinker, we are mindlessly swallowing their proffered bait. This poisonous substance can only reinforce the dangerous delusion that going forward actually means going backward.

Instead, the way forward is to ask that Pakistaniat spring from Pakistan’s native soil. It must be rooted in the diversity of all our peoples and historically formed cultures. The year 1971 showed decisively the limits of pan-Islamism. Aping Saudi culture failed to create a viable Pakistani identity; aping Turkey won’t get us much further. Instead a strong national identity can emerge only if Pakistan embraces pluralism, accepts that Punjab is just another Pakistani province, and helps all citizens achieve a sense of belonging based upon a commitment to equality and justice.

The writer teaches physics in Lahore and Islamabad.

Published in Dawn, June 6th, 2020

This so called, liberal 'intellectual' have criticism and lectures on all topics, and never have a positivity for Pakistan. When junior bush attacked muslim countries and given it a name of CRUSADE, did anyone herd his voice?
What is his achievement for the state of Pakistan in his relevant field?
Now he is another, 'loud mouth' against a real character of Islamic history, because he is irritated. In Pakistan there were many violent western movies were screened, could anyone remember that he critical of them also.
Ever anyone heard of his voice against savage use of force by state of America against blacks, simply NO. He is born only as a critique of Pakistan - for others he is blind as well as deaf and mute.

 

[Cliftonite]

Hey who the f are you to question me..as I said take your sister for a good seeing too...be liberal

Anybody who brings in sisters and mothers as a comeback insult is an insecure person. It shows your thinking. You think of women as possessions of honor. Not as individuals. Tumhari samajh nahi ayega I doubt it.

You have not answered any of my questions ...I repeat women are neither your slaves nor are they your property...they can and one day will lead the lives the way they want to lead...it is happening in india and it will happen in pakistan...misogynists like you cant stop the change...women will get their freedom from the clutches of hypocrites and patriarchical people like you...the more you suppress them , the more they bounce back.

Ignore him. I am embarassed to have such raving lunatics as my countrymen. He's going to go and label me an anti national too now because I side with you. As if human rights are bounded by nationalism.

 

[Yankee-stani]

What has Hoodbhoy done that is backstabbing? Have your politicians not backstabbed you? Or army? Sukoot-e-Dhaka kis ki waja se hua tha? You cannot be so sensitive to someone expressing their thoughts. He is not actively harming Pakistan, he is just speaking his mind. If you don't like it, then refute it.

This type of thinking is what is dangerous. And so similar to Sanghis. The thinking that; you're with us or against us. Anybody who disagrees with you is a friend of your enemy. Go read about the slip of Germany into Nazism. This is how it started.

Hoodbhoy is just saying that swordsmen and conquerors are not somebody we should be emulating; especially when they're not even related to us in anyway. You are calling him an RSS Sanghi. Waah bhai.

220 million Pakistanis cannot be pan Islamic mard-e-momins. You cannot force them to. Unless you learn to appreciate differences of thought, Pakistan can never advance. We will keep labelling our countrymen kafir and enemies of state. That is not a healthy state.

Islam itna kamzor nahi ke kisi ki tanqeed se mutassir hojaye.

I mean I look it this way in Pakistan anything that goes against the narrative is almost considered a traitor any one that questions Foreign allies like Turkey on their policies in the Mid East or China with their policies with Uyghurs is consdired a traitor in the eyes of Pakistani members WTF

 

[Avatar]

Anybody who tries to talk sense in Pakistan and expresses the difficult truth is disregarded as a traitor, enemy of Islam, non Muslim, foreign agent, and completely incompetent even though this person has contributed more to the nations progress than 99% of the posters/posers here. You have to own up and come to terms with who you are rather than adopting various invader civilizations legacies just to distance yourself from India. Respect to this man for standing up and trying to talk sense well-aware that he will be attacked and ridiculed publicly for this.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

As long as Pakistanis are enjoying it like a show. It's all good.

But if they start treating it like their own history and start relating with it as if these are their ancestors then it could be sign of identity crisis which won't be good for them. There's as it is a lot of confusion there as to who they are and where they come from. This will just add to the confusion.

My two cents.

 

[Trango Towers]

Anybody who brings in sisters and mothers as a comeback insult is an insecure person. It shows your thinking. You think of women as possessions of honor. Not as individuals. Tumhari samajh nahi ayega I doubt it.



Ignore him. I am embarassed to have such raving lunatics as my countrymen. He's going to go and label me an anti national too now because I side with you. As if human rights are bounded by nationalism.

And who made you his secretary...he abused 1st and got it back. And you can get off his lap now and stop being his b1tch. If you Indians dont like abuse. Don't dish it out. He could have said things nicely and it would have come to this but no you indians love tamasha but when you get slapped then you do what you do best. Now run alone and pick up your skirt on the way out. Your bf is done with you

 

[masterchief_mirza]

What has Hoodbhoy done that is backstabbing? Have your politicians not backstabbed you? Or army? Sukoot-e-Dhaka kis ki waja se hua tha? You cannot be so sensitive to someone expressing their thoughts. He is not actively harming Pakistan, he is just speaking his mind. If you don't like it, then refute it.

This type of thinking is what is dangerous. And so similar to Sanghis. The thinking that; you're with us or against us. Anybody who disagrees with you is a friend of your enemy. Go read about the slip of Germany into Nazism. This is how it started.

Hoodbhoy is just saying that swordsmen and conquerors are not somebody we should be emulating; especially when they're not even related to us in anyway. You are calling him an RSS Sanghi. Waah bhai.

220 million Pakistanis cannot be pan Islamic mard-e-momins. You cannot force them to. Unless you learn to appreciate differences of thought, Pakistan can never advance. We will keep labelling our countrymen kafir and enemies of state. That is not a healthy state.

Islam itna kamzor nahi ke kisi ki tanqeed se mutassir hojaye.

It is dangerous because it's an assumption that anybody is emulating or inspired to be like anything. That is pure conjecture. Moreover, it is conjecture that drives the hindutva narrative that we Muslims must have our history portrayed as Panipat savages and nothing else.

 

[Cliftonite]

It is dangerous because it's an assumption that anybody is emulating or inspired to be like anything. That is pure conjecture. Moreover, it is conjecture that drives the hindutva narrative that we Muslims must have our history portrayed as Panipat savages and nothing else.

It's not dangerous. It's faulty and flawed which need to be countered but when we say dangerous, then we start falling into the Ayub Khan and Bhutto formula where we start jailing people for their views because they're considered "dangerous".