CPC winning hearts of people: general secretary of Communist Party of India

[beijingwalker]

CPC winning hearts of people: general secretary of Communist Party of India
"The Chinese government and the Communist Party of China (CPC) are leading the people and winning the hearts and minds of the people, to take the country forward," said Doraisamy Raja, general secretary of the Communist Party of India

 

[Sharma Ji]

Commies are irrelevant in India.

 

[jamahir]

@beijingwalker

Does Comrade Raja of the CPI understand what is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" ? I never understood that.

Does it mean pushing citizens into 30-storey, ugly apartment complexes which can collapse in earthquakes ?

Does it mean giving citizens private cars which then go on to contribute to global warming when instead the system should have been to ban privately-owned personal transport ?

Does it mean allowing stock exchanges where Chinese citizens lose money by speculating and then jumping off buildings or jumping into steel furnaces ?

Does it mean the Chinese middle class not being able to afford high-quality medical treatment locally and so going to India to avail of paid treatment ?

 

[AgnosticIndian]

Does Comrade Raja of the CPI understand what is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" ? I never understood that.

both CPI and CPI(M) understand very well "Communism with Chinese characteristics". you probably remember the events of Nandigram, which led to the fall of CPI(M) in Bengal. the protests where against the government's intention of buliding SEZs (China style) in Bengal, seizing the land of some peasants. of course the different 'material conditions' of India meant that unlike CCP, CPI(M) couldn't simply mow down the protestors with tanks, with the goal of building what I call "socialism with intial exploitative characteristics". but after 150 years of failure to implement "real communism" (or failing to defend it against capitalist Imperial forces if implemented, as you might suggest), we should accept that it would be better to rapidly industrialize through whatever means necessary (like China) and then think about implenting socialism with social programs like UBI with the help of modern tech like automation. that certainly seems better than kneecaping ourselves by stopping industrial progress in the name of socialism while the poor rot for decades.

 

[jamahir]

you probably remember the events of Nandigram, which led to the fall of CPI(M) in Bengal. the protests where against the government's intention of buliding SEZs (China style) in Bengal, seizing the land of some peasants.

Yes, Nandigram was a failure for West Bengal's CPI-M government and another was not grabbing the chance for Jyoti Basu to become the first Communist Prime Minister of India in 1996.

Again about Nandigram, I wonder why the WB government could not strike a deal with the peasants there like it had happened in the Noida / Gurgaon / NCR area with respect to a non-Communist government.

of course the different 'material conditions' of India meant that unlike CCP, CPI(M) couldn't simply mow down the protestors with tanks

Though I am not an admirer of the Chinese government I will say that that Tiananmen Square "mowing down with tanks" did not happen. This is documented. The "tankman" thing was part of a wider riot / protest by students mainly IIRC and some government soldiers were also harmed.

@TaiShang, am I correct ?

with the goal of building what I call "socialism with intial exploitative characteristics".

I suppose that describes the Chinese experiment.

but after 150 years of failure to implement "real communism" (or failing to defend it against capitalist Imperial forces if implemented, as you might suggest), we should accept that it would be better to rapidly industrialize through whatever means necessary (like China) and then think about implenting socialism with social programs like UBI with the help of modern tech like automation.

1. Why can't the industrialization model be from USSR ? I don't think the "Through whatever means" was as exploitative in USSR than it was in China.

2. About "implementation of real Communism", the political desire part which is "Withering away of the State and the People ruling themselves" existed in Libya until the 2011 invasion. This post of mine describes how it worked, in simple words. About the economic desire of Communism about abolishing the traditional money system, in this thread I propose a new economic system. Please read the OP thread and the resulting discussion and do leave your comment there. You will find that I have taken care of UBI ( Universal Basic Income ). About your mentioning of modern tech I will mention that the Communist leadership of WB spoke regretfully that they were against computerization of banks and other institutions initially. I will lastly mention that we should mix n match techniques and technologies like Urban Farming, Vertical Farming, Collectivized work, 3D Printing, Open Source design of things like medicine and computing etc.

that certainly seems better than kneecaping ourselves by stopping industrial progress in the name of socialism while the poor rot for decades.

Certainly, I too don't want that scenario.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

Tiananmen Square "mowing down with tanks" did not happen. This is documented.

the "Tankman" in the famous photograph was safe I think, that is correct, but yes, while there is some doubt on whether tanks ran over students or not, it is certain that many were killed, perhaps using only guns while tanks were used for intimidation and movement. CCP gives a figure of 300 dead, but unofficial figures are higher.

Beijing tank tracks crushed students dead

Pressure is being exerted on China to tell the truth about the Beijing massacre 10 years ago as grim new evidence emerges of the slaughter of innocent victims who were in and around Tiananmen square.

www.theguardian.com

until the 2011 invasion

I've been to a Libyan forum (/r/Libya on reddit) and they don't present a rosy picture of Libya under Gaddafi as many communists outsiders do. but even if I completely accept your account, as I've mentioned above, "failing to defend it against capitalist Imperial forces if implemented" is also a failure. what use is implementing Communism if it'll only lead to leaders getting bayoneted by own fascists in home and country getting carpet bombed without anyone being able to defend it.
and I've read that post of yours sometime back, and I agree with much of it. I agree with the basic premise (since I support UBI with automation) but the "social credit) is kinda dystopian, I wouldn't want government deciding what acts are "anti-social" and cutting my credit for it. I would prefer a base rate for everyone and then letting the free market decide the services. kinda like a public-private partnership. Pakistan has actually recently implemented something great like that, called "school card" I think. basically you get your child admission in a private school and the government pays the fees. very similar to Medicare for All idea of Bernie Sanders. it'll effectively be free for consumers but government inefficiencies and corruption are also eliminated, all they need to do is negotiate prices with private actors and do quality control on them instead of having to run all the services. I certainly support social democratic ideas like this.
I think the only place we disagree is using the label "communism" and unnecessarily demonizing the free market. Communism has a bad name because it was used by oppressive Marxist-Leninists who used authoritarian techniques and seemed to lack grasp of economics. we can use better labels for these good ideas, such as "democratic socialism" or social democracy. free markets are a necessary component of any good social system and shouldn't be demonized.
whatever exploitation China experienced under capitalism, I can assure you poor people in India experience 10× worse under feudalism. when we demonize free markets and capitalism in a country like India, we aren't choosing socialism, we're choosing feudalism. to get to socialism we first need an advanced economy and developed free markets.

 

[pikkuboss]

CCP stooges from India oiling their masters. No wonder Communists are irrelevant in India.

 

[lonelyman]

@beijingwalker

Does Comrade Raja of the CPI understand what is "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" ? I never understood that.

Does it mean pushing citizens into 30-storey apartment complexes which can collapse in earthquakes ?

Does it mean giving citizens private cars which then go on to contribute to global warming when instead the system should have been to ban privately-owned personal transport ?

Does it mean allowing stock exchanges where Chinese citizens lose money by speculating and then jumping off buildings or jumping into steel furnaces ?

Does it mean the Chinese middle class not being able to afford high-quality medical treatment locally and so going to India to avail of paid treatment ?

chinese middle class go to India for medical treatment no wonder you guys are the biggest delusional losers believing drinking cow cola cure covid shit

buy some cheap medicine, yes, just because you guys don't obey patents and copy western medicine shamelessly

if Chinese government allows that, we can produce 10 times cheaper medicine than India does, but unlike you, we don't want to be a rogue thief

 

[jamahir]

chinese middle class go to India for medical treatment

They do. There was a thread on the forum about this.

no wonder you guys are the biggest delusional losers believing drinking cow cola cure covid shit

If you did not guess from my first post on this thread I am a Communist, with transnational thought, not some ultra-nationalist.

buy some cheap medicine, yes, just because you guys don't obey patents and copy western medicine shamelessly

Medicine should be open source anyway. Otherwise what do you want, people suffering and dying of ailments not because there is no medicine and cure for it but the cure is costly ?

 

[Sharma Ji]

Medicine should be open source anyway. Otherwise what do you want, people suffering and dying of ailments not because there is no medicine and cure for it but the cure is costly ?

How will they recover research and development and production costs if some company puts in the resources and just gives it away for free ?

 

[jamahir]

How will they recover research and development and production costs if some company puts in the resources and just gives it away for free ?

1. We should first decide what is of utmost priority : human lives or making money. Which is why the pharmaceutical industry must be nationalized.

2. Strive to make the pharma industry self-sufficient within the country. Where transnational cooperation is needed either the government pays for it or the UNO arranges the cooperation to not cost a lot.