Court arrests Turkey’s ex-army chief on coup charges

[forummurat]

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[Quasar]

reality check!

a simple fact!

we are not living in a banana republic!

there is rule of law in Turkey!!! and no one is above the law!!! including generals or erdogan or anyone else!

facing charges is one thing and here declaring people innocent or guilty is an other! thats why we have courts!

and I have to say this forum is full of hot blooded fanatic kids!

 

[BordoEnes]

Guys i think we all can agree that this is for the good, This is a Turning point in Turkish history saying we no longer want a Dictatorship Turkey, These are the things that the Goverment shows that they are in power and they will no longer tollerate any crap from the army in politics again. Even though Basbug is a great man i think its the best to us, And perhaps he will even be found not guilty but it will simply turn out to be a message to the army from the goverments.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well these charges are very serious....by implicating him in the Ergenekon case, they are basically saying that he (alongside other top brass and regulars) wanted to provide funds for Kurdish terrorists to wage suicide bomb attacks in large cities --create enough chaos and mayhem in Turkiye to "warrant" a military takeover

this is a very very serious allegation they are putting on him......I personally believe in the existence of Ergenekon syndicate, but i do think the issue is becoming very political and exaggerated.

this won't have an affect on Turkish Armed Forces (all three services have officers who are being questioned -even the Air Force).....it wont have effect on their professionalism. But it can affect morale on some regulars and some top brass who served under Gen. (r) Basbug's leadership.


I hope he will be exonerated and his name be cleared. But let's see what the courts say --since they have the final word in the decisions.

---------- Post added at 02:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 AM ----------

and I have to say this forum is full of hot blooded fanatic kids!

it's been like that for years, bro

nothing new

---------- Post added at 02:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 AM ----------

Guys i think we all can agree that this is for the good, This is a Turning point in Turkish history saying we no longer want a Dictatorship Turkey, These are the things that the Goverment shows that they are in power and they will no longer tollerate any crap from the army in politics again. Even though Basbug is a great man i think its the best to us, And perhaps he will even be found not guilty but it will simply turn out to be a message to the army from the goverments.

the politics and political dynamics in both our countries have HISTORICALLY been quite similar......the only difference is that the law & order situation in Turkiye is more favourable than it is in parts of Pakistan. Your army is very powerful (a good thing) but so is your judiciary and media. These three pillars are important, but of course the government/parliament should be competend enough to have the final say

 

[Meengla]

Good post, @Abou.
But I will be very surprised if Erdogan just made up all this against Basbug. These are, as you say, very serious charges. And given the history of Turkey's military (the coups), and given the extreme level of 'secularism' in some parts of the Turkish society, I think it is quite possible that Basbug indeed did something very wrong. And I don't think it makes sense for Erdogan to stir the hornets' nest of the military class--the same class which had previously outlawed and persecuted AKP's predecessors-- without being absolutely sure of the military's treachery.
Also, not to sound like conspiracy theorist, but I also think that some powerful foreign countries would rather have the Turkish military topple the AKP civilian government over past few years and hence Basbug may have been at least emboldened by at least implicit support.

But of course I am speculating here.

---------- Post added at 07:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Good post, @Abou.
But I will be very surprised if Erdogan just made up all this against Basbug. These are, as you say, very serious charges. And given the history of Turkey's military (the coups), and given the extreme level of 'secularism' in some parts of the Turkish society, I think it is quite possible that Basbug indeed did something very wrong. And I don't think it makes sense for Erdogan to stir the hornets' nest of the military class--the same class which had previously outlawed and persecuted AKP's predecessors-- without being absolutely sure of the military's treachery.
Also, not to sound like conspiracy theorist, but I also think that some powerful foreign countries would rather have the Turkish military topple the AKP civilian government over past few years and hence Basbug may have been at least emboldened by at least implicit support.

But of course I am speculating here.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Good post, @Abou.
But I will be very surprised if Erdogan just made up all this against Basbug. These are, as you say, very serious charges. And given the history of Turkey's military (the coups), and given the extreme level of 'secularism' in some parts of the Turkish society, I think it is quite possible that Basbug indeed did something very wrong. And I don't think it makes sense for Erdogan to stir the hornets' nest of the military class--the same class which had previously outlawed and persecuted AKP's predecessors-- without being absolutely sure of the military's treachery.

well first and foremost -- who is filing the charges? Is it the Turkish STATE (the prosecution) or is it the Prime Minister Erdogan (for whom I also hold in very high regards)

And given the history of Turkey's military (the coups), and given the extreme level of 'secularism' in some parts of the Turkish society, I think it is quite possible that Basbug indeed did something very wrong.

Turkiye's Constitution is secular. The military has traditionally been seen as the SAFEGUARD of the Constitution of Turkiye......the same way Pakistani Army is seen as protectors of the Islamic Republic --and took action against those seen as meddling with the Constitution of Pakistan (even if it meant SUSPENDING it)

by the way, like any other country with sizeable population --Turks are also ideologically and politically divided....i've met secular Turks, socialist Turks, capitalist Turks, and I've even met Turks who had taleban type views. etc. etc.


all views, shapes, colors and sizes.....like Pakistan where we have the same types of things.


at the end of the day (and setting aside personal biases) --the military's job is to DEFEND the territorial sovereignty and dignity of a country....not be involved in politics

i cant speak in Turkish case, but in Pakistan's case --it was these goddam civilian rulers who failed at their jobs, they were corrupt; they forced the military to intervene. Every time we had coup in Pakistan, people showered the streets with petals and people celebrated. Ask yourself why?

And I don't think it makes sense for Erdogan to stir the hornets' nest of the military class--the same class which had previously outlawed and persecuted AKP's predecessors-- without being absolutely sure of the military's treachery.

well unlike the past, in the past decade Turkiye has been trying to get EU accession --and that entails that the military is answerable to civilian govt. and it entails total freedom of the press, judiciary and other pillars of state

PM Erdogan knows he is in a position of power and knows that unlike the past, any military takeover would be DISASTROUS for Turkiye. It will make the military outcasts, it will even jeopardize their status as a NATO country ---especially since the west is becoming more paranoid about Turkiye and its more 'assertive' nature

it isnt a question about "purging" or any of that...i'm not sure if I would call it a "witch hunt" either


but what is happening is, PM Erdogan (who hails from Black Sea region where people are a bit more emotional and tempermental --like Pathans) doesn't tolerate dissent very well. You can google "Erdogan + Dogan Media Group" if you don't believe me.

He feels easily threatened by those he even perceives as questioning his power or authority. Well, a lot of leaders are like that too. But I really think that this Ergenekon thing is getting a bit out of control.

All Turkish citizens look up to their Armed Forces....like Pakistanis do. Army is a prized and patriotic institution. Why should civilian and military be involved in such a public and sensationalized confrontation course?


even in Pakistan, I am worried about this whole Memogate scandal thing. It's becoming too public and too much of a media sensation. Obviously I want those who are guilty to be prosecuted, since I am digusted by it.


we are emotional people.......sometimes our emotions cause the thinking to become cloudy.

Also, not to sound like conspiracy theorist, but I also think that some powerful foreign countries would rather have the Turkish military topple the AKP civilian government over past few years and hence Basbug may have been at least emboldened by at least implicit support.

But of course I am speculating here.

the israelis would love to see AKP government go........maybe some quarters in Washington DC also.....

however, the Turkish military is not exactly pro-israel either....not after Mavi Marmara! Not after israel/western support for greece-occupied cyprus territory!





i wont speculate further until the court comes with a verdict....but like I said, im not happy to see General Basbug under bad name or under such serious allegations......lets see what happens

 

[Cirit]

anyways.. we must wait result of judicial

Indeed.

But unfortuantely jurisdiction period is too long (4-5 years even more) and they keep them in jail during this time, and this period turns out to be as penalty itself. Where can ex-army chief escape? Is it necessary to keep him and many others inside before they are found guilty?

This is what hurts common sense and let people of Turkey think suspicious about all these things.

 

[Saithan]

Indeed.

But unfortuantely jurisdiction period is too long (4-5 years even more) and they keep them in jail during this time, and this period turns out to be as penalty itself. Where can ex-army chief escape? Is it necessary to keep him and many others inside before they are found guilty?

This is what hurts common sense and let people of Turkey think suspicious about all these things.

Just recently or maybe a month ago there were articles in the turkish newspapers of a general who had fled to russia, right after the court had sent him home, the next day there was an arrest warrent on him. Things like that doesn't really reflect well either.
Anti-government website campaign general flees to Russia

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Let us make things clear.
1: The Prime Minister does not file charges in the Ergenekon case, he has nothing to do with it.
2: it is a well known fact that the military is seen as an anti-muslim, ultra-secular institution whose function according to many and themselves is to defend secularism. I would definitely not be surprised if Basbug indeed conspirated with other generals, who planned several times, to destroy the AKP.
3: Neither would i be surprised to see foreign hands in the Ergenekon connections, since many countries doesnot want Turkey to develop and become an influential power in its region.

Guys, we have to accept that for many decades the military has halted Turkey. We have never seen the oppurtunities we see today. People can obviously see the dark scenarios, there is tons of evidence where weapons and ammunition was found. If we want to unravel the whole story, we have to dig deeper. Yet we have to steer clear and be subjective without any ideological motivations. If wrongdoings has happened it has to be punished. No matter from which party or institution they come from. I trust that the ongoing trials are done with good faith and with justice. For far too long Turkey has been kept in the dark (both economically, judicially and socially) but we are slowly emerging towards the light inshallah...

 

[Saithan]

You are generalizing no.2, which I don't think is fair.

 

[forummurat]

BREAKING NEWS !!!

Retired General Tolon Re-Arrested in Ergenekon probe

Retired Gen. Hurşit Tolon, a former 1st Army Corps commander, was arrested on Tuesday for a second time in the ongoing investigation into Ergenekon.
Ergenekon is a clandestine criminal network that has alleged links within the state and is suspected of plotting to topple the government. Tolon was arrested in 2008 as part of the investigation on charges of “being an administrator of an organization” but was later released pending trial in 2009 due to health reasons.

After, Specially Authorized İstanbul Prosecutor Mehmet Ali Pekgüzel requested the arrest of Tolon for second time during the 148th hearing of the second Ergenekon trial at the İstanbul 13th High Criminal Court on Tuesday, the court ruled to arrest Tolon.

Tolon was cross-examined by Pekgüzel last week during the 145th hearing.

Tolon's arrest comes on the heels of the arrest of former Chief of General Staff retired Gen. İlker Başbuğ last week as part of an investigation into several websites allegedly set up by the General Staff to disseminate propaganda against the government.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

anti-Muslim?


i have friends who were practicing Muslims ---active in the TSK, also have friends of course who themselves or had brothers doing 6 month and year-long military (asker) service obligations....all practicing Muslims, a small number of them never even missed prayers!


no i dont think Turkish army is ''anti Muslim'' .........but it is true that they don't allow religious symbols (including things like beard). They do that for the sake of uniformity only.

 

[forummurat]

Commanders that Members of Ergenekon are anti-Islam and anti-muslim ofcourse.. They fighting with religion.. Majority of them are sabetayist or unbeliever..

 

[A1Kaid]

forummurat thanks for keeping us updated I really appreciate it. Looks like the house of cards is starting to fall.

 

[forummurat]

forummurat thanks for keeping us updated I really appreciate it. Looks like the house of cards is starting to fall.

Inshallah my brother.. May Allah break their plans and save Turkey than their badnesses..