Could ghost imaging spy satellite be a game changer for Chinese military?

[onebyone]

Gong Wenlin, research director at the Key Laboratory for Quantum Optics, Chinese Academy of Sciences in Shanghai – whose team is building the prototype ghost imaging device for satellite missions – said their technology was designed to catch “invisibles” like the B-2s.

He said his lab, led by prominent quantum optics physicist Han Shensheng, would complete a prototype by 2020 with an aim to test the technology in space before 2025. By 2030 he said there would be some large-scale applications.

While ghost imaging has already been tested on ground-based systems, Gong’s lab is in a race with overseas competitors, including the US Army Research Laboratory, to launch the world’s first ghost imaging satellite.

The team showed the engineering feasibility of the technology with a ground experiment in 2011. Three years later the US army lab announced similar results.

“We have beat them on the ground. We have confidence to beat them again in space,” Gong said.

 

[onebyone]

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...imaging-spy-satellite-be-game-changer-chinese

 

[Han Patriot]

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...imaging-spy-satellite-be-game-changer-chinese

They were ahead of the US in this technology. Alot of groundbreaking technologies are not revealed to the public, it's good they are getting more transparent and revealing some.

@Bussard Ramjet

Seems like we are ahead of US in quantum radars too?

 

[qwerrty]

do you need this new quantum sh1t to see b2 or f22 from space?

 

[Beast]

do you need this new quantum sh1t to see b2 or f22 from space?

I think they are using this satellite to track US stealth bomber all time as long as they are airborne. Ground based and AWACS is only about to track when they are within range.

 

[Han Patriot]

I think they are using this satellite to track US stealth bomber all time as long as they are airborne. Ground based and AWACS is only about to track when they are within range.

Yup, using videosats, they can keep on homing on these bombers and aircraft carriers, you can also use AI to further monitor them. That's why China is so confident they can sink a carrier, we are monitoring them 24/7, when they enter certain areas, we can use Beidou to guide missiles to accurately sink them. There is no need for ground based radars, we just use space sensors for targeting.

 

[qwerrty]

I think they are using this satellite to track US stealth bomber all time as long as they are airborne. Ground based and AWACS is only about to track when they are within range.

but a normal high resolution optical satellite in geo orbit can do that too. stealth shaping and radar absorbing materials can't hide from imaging satellite, unless they have romulan cloaking technology.

 

[Beast]

but a normal high resolution optical satellite in geo orbit can do that too. stealth shaping and radar absorbing materials can't hide from imaging satellite, unless they have romulan cloaking technology.

Optical are easy to be countered and block by countered measure. Cloud , bad weather will also affect the surveillance.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

They were ahead of the US in this technology. Alot of groundbreaking technologies are not revealed to the public, it's good they are getting more transparent and revealing some.

@Bussard Ramjet

Seems like we are ahead of US in quantum radars too?

Firstly, this field is called quantum metrology.

Secondly, Stephen Chen of SCMP has now a track record of posting click bait articles.

Thirdly, no one actually knows what the status of development of this stuff is.

Fourthly, Stephen Chen's constant tactic in such articles is that he uses theoretical scientific capability and gives an impression that that is going to be achieved. Quantum metrology has many real world problems. So this tech is still decades away unless there is some major breakthrough regarding few major bottlenecks.

do you need this new quantum sh1t to see b2 or f22 from space?

If it were to be realized it will totally change the game.

I think they are using this satellite to track US stealth bomber all time as long as they are airborne. Ground based and AWACS is only about to track when they are within range.

B2 has a zero low RCS. It will have to within few 100s of kilometers to be detected. But before that detection it can blow away any such systems that are there.

but a normal high resolution optical satellite in geo orbit can do that too. stealth shaping and radar absorbing materials can't hide from imaging satellite, unless they have romulan cloaking technology.

Optical satellites don't work at night.

The sole purpose of B2 is to use it as a knock down the door aircraft. The strategy is that B2 will be used at night to enter adversary territory, and bomb strategic locations like radar sites, airports, etc. so that than others can later follow in.

Optical satellites are largely useless at night.

 

[Han Patriot]

Firstly, this field is called quantum metrology.

Secondly, Stephen Chen of SCMP has now a track record of posting click bait articles.

Thirdly, no one actually knows what the status of development of this stuff is.

Fourthly, Stephen Chen's constant tactic in such articles is that he uses theoretical scientific capability and gives an impression that that is going to be achieved. Quantum metrology has many real world problems. So this tech is still decades away unless there is some major breakthrough regarding few major bottlenecks.



If it were to be realized it will totally change the game.



B2 has a zero low RCS. It will have to within few 100s of kilometers to be detected. But before that detection it can blow away any such systems that are there.



Optical satellites don't work at night.

The sole purpose of B2 is to use it as a knock down the door aircraft. The strategy is that B2 will be used at night to enter adversary territory, and bomb strategic locations like radar sites, airports, etc. so that than others can later follow in.

Optical satellites are largely useless at night.

But China seems to claim they already have a working terrestrial quantum radar. I understand reporters tend to hypes things, but I did remember reading about China trying to launch a space quantum radar. The claim about beating US in a working quantum radar is already quite some time, do you think there is a remote chance China is ahead?

If 5 years ago, I told you China is ahead in Quantum Comms, would you believe me? Now they are so confident, they want to implement it in space. Anyway, just an idea, always good to be humble and let time tell the tale.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/i...d/news-story/207ac01ff3107d21a9f36e54b6f0fbab

 

[qwerrty]

Optical satellites don't work at night.

The sole purpose of B2 is to use it as a knock down the door aircraft. The strategy is that B2 will be used at night to enter adversary territory, and bomb strategic locations like radar sites, airports, etc. so that than others can later follow in.

Optical satellites are largely useless at night.

that assuming we live in another dimension where IR optical sensor hasn't been invented yet

 

[Han Patriot]

that assuming we live in another dimension where IR optical sensor hasn't been invented yet

I think he made a mistake in his statement, optical sensors can work at night but it won't work on stealth planes since IR signals would have been deflected or absorbed by it.

 

[Canuck786]

Yup, using videosats, they can keep on homing on these bombers and aircraft carriers, you can also use AI to further monitor them. That's why China is so confident they can sink a carrier, we are monitoring them 24/7, when they enter certain areas, we can use Beidou to guide missiles to accurately sink them. There is no need for ground based radars, we just use space sensors for targeting.

Oh Sh*t! What would happen to Indian claims to sabotage Chinese vessels on sea routes near Malacca strait and strait of Harmuz?

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

But China seems to claim they already have a working terrestrial quantum radar. I understand reporters tend to hypes things, but I did remember reading about China trying to launch a space quantum radar. The claim about beating US in a working quantum radar is already quite some time, do you think there is a remote chance China is ahead?

If 5 years ago, I told you China is ahead in Quantum Comms, would you believe me? Now they are so confident, they want to implement it in space. Anyway, just an idea, always good to be humble and let time tell the tale.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/i...d/news-story/207ac01ff3107d21a9f36e54b6f0fbab

They are working definitely, but will it be successful?
5 years back, quantum entanglement was already being done at a distance of about 100 km.
The difficulty for longer distances was that maintaining entanglement for longer distances was very hard, so almost everybody was proposing to set up a satellite, including people in Europe and Singapore. It was so because while in space, the communication can happen through the atmosphere which at a maximum is 100 km in width, (with outer atmosphere very thin). So even if the satellite is a 1000 km overhead, it will have to just encounter atmosphere for 100 km, and dense atmosphere for 50 km.

China took the lead by recognizing potential importance of this field and assigning appropriate funds to the field. The technology itself was not very unique, in the sense that if the Europeans have given the money to their scientists, they would also have a satellite.

Here, however the fundamental physics lies firmly in the domain of sci fi. I don't know if they can solve all the hundreds of problems associated with this in the future. But even if they do, I can bet that this is not going to be a major part of any actual weapon system or military strategy for at least 15-20 years.

that assuming we live in another dimension where IR optical sensor hasn't been invented yet

In my definition optical only includes visible light. If you want to include IR, sure than. But then everything could be called optical since radars are also a part of EM spectrum.

Also, the article of SCMP itself says that B2 is very resistant to IR detection.

I think he made a mistake in his statement, optical sensors can work at night but it won't work on stealth planes since IR signals would have been deflected or absorbed by it.

No, primarily a difference of terminology.

 

[onebyone]

US and China racing to deploy quantum ghost imaging in satellites for stealth plane tracking

China is developing a new type of spy satellite using ghost imaging technology which could spot stealth aircraft and see through smokescreens and camouflage.

Above – A 2009 US Air Force Research lab presenter on quantum ghost imaging satellites.

Quantum ghost imaging can achieve unprecedented sensitivity by detecting not just the extremely small amount of light straying off a dim target, but also its interactions with other light in the surrounding environment to obtain more information than traditional methods.
The ghost imaging satellite would have two cameras, one aiming at the targeted area of interest with a bucket-like, single pixel sensor while the other camera measured variations in a wider field of light across the environment. By analyzing and merging the signals received by the two cameras with a set of sophisticated algorithms in quantum physics, scientists could conjure up the imaging of an object with extremely high definition previously thought impossible using conventional methods. The ghost camera could also identify the physical nature or even chemical composition of a target, according to Gong. This meant the military would be able to distinguish decoys such as fake fighter jets on display in an airfield or missile launchers hidden under a camouflage canopy.


Tang Lingli, a researcher with the Academy of Opto-Electronics, Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing, said numerous new devices had been built, tested in the field and were ready for deployment on ground-based radar stations, planes and airships.

Gong Wenlin, research director at the Key Laboratory for Quantum Optics, Chinese Academy of Sciences in Shanghai – whose team is building the prototype ghost imaging device for satellite missions – said their technology was designed to catch “invisibles” like the B-2s.

He said his lab, led by prominent quantum optics physicist Han Shensheng, would complete a prototype by 2020 with an aim to test the technology in space before 2025. By 2030 he said there would be some large-scale applications.

While ghost imaging has already been tested on ground-based systems, Gong’s lab is in a race with overseas competitors, including the US Army Research Laboratory, to launch the world’s first ghost imaging satellite.

The chinese team showed the engineering feasibility of the technology with a ground experiment in 2011. Three years later the US army lab announced similar results.

Recently, it was shown that the principles of ‘Compressed-Sensing’ can be directly utilized to reduce the number of measurements required for image reconstruction in ghost imaging. This technique allows an N pixel image to be produced with far less than N measurements and may have applications in LIDAR and microscopy.

Remote sensing

Ghost imaging is being considered for application in remote-sensing systems as a possible competitor with imaging laser radars (LADAR). A theoretical performance comparison between a pulsed, computational ghost imager and a pulsed, floodlight-illumination imaging laser radar identified scenarios in which a reflective ghost-imaging system has advantages.

X-ray ghost imaging
A ghost-imaging experiment for hard x-rays was recently achieved using data obtained at the European Synchrotron. Here, speckled pulses of x-rays from individual electron synchrotron bunches were used to generate a ghost-image basis, enabling proof-of-concept for experimental x-ray ghost imaging. At the same time that this experiment was reported, a Fourier-space variant of x-ray ghost imaging was published.

NASA also worked on Ghost imaging and found the beam splitter was not needed

A different approach allows us to dispense with such a beam splitter, transferring its function to the object itself. This is an advanced version of the famous Hanbury Brown Twiss intensity interferometer.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/...in-satellites-for-stealth-plane-tracking.html


Miles Padgett - Resolution Limits of Quantum Ghost Imaging (QM90)