Contracts and Talks for J-10 and JF-17 and WZ-10 and Frigates and Submarines to be finalized

[HRK]

How did you learn about 32+ Block 52? Is that an analysis or news from somebody credible?

he is Nishan_101 .... rest you can figure out ....

 

[OrionHunter]

taking about defense deals only
we need frigates. and 7 subs or 8 subs? lets wait and see
and I will love to see Jf17 blk 2 rolling out and starting of joint production of J10b which is a capable air craft............ and Z10 Thunderbolts? yes why not. Vipers for high altitudes like northern areas,Kashmir and frontier and Thunderbolt for planes of Punjab and Sindh................. so guys gear up and wait for finalized deal

You talk as though Santa Claus commeth with a lot of freebie goodies.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. But hey, dreaming is free, so carry on!

 

[graphican]

he is Nishan_101 .... rest you can figure out ....

Without disputing the source, 32+ F-16s would cost some 3 to 4 billions USD. I doubt if Pakistan would want to spend this much money for 2 squadrons. J-10s would be a strategic step as they will come with TOT and freedom to upgrade, customize and learn about 4+ generation fighter technology inside-out - all that at 50-60% cost of what we would pay otherwise.

For the 15 helicopters we just purchased, we had to order their missiles despite the fact we have OMTAS and our own Bark available to us. If Pakistan go for 32+ F-16s, cost of armament would be tremendous and restrictions will keep pulling us one way or the other. I am no expert but my opinion is against such purchase.

 

[Tipu7]

You talk as though Santa Claus commeth with a lot of freebie goodies.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. But hey, dreaming is free, so carry on!

u r just a jealous Indian
I can see u people burning for no reason ........... so burn baby burn

 

[graphican]

You talk as though Santa Claus commeth with a lot of freebie goodies.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee. But hey, dreaming is free, so carry on!

China doesn't sell us this stuff.. it invests in Pakistan's security and ultimately its own sustainability. They have already offered us lots of stuff for free, like L-15 came free and so did Z-10s. There were news that If Pakistan commits to buy one squadron of J-10, China would provide the other for free. Again, cannot confirm this news but above two examples are ample for us to understand dynamics of Pak-China relationship. This relationship is deeper than buyer-seller relationship you usually see in the defense market.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

J-10 is now Impossible as PAF has plans to acquire some what 32+ Block-52s along with some more used F-16s Block-15s. Also there can be a contract of J-31s in near future.

Source and references ?

well the thing about J-10 makes the whole article doubtful. It is highly unlikely now specially with PAF moving ahead with JF-17 and the up coming J-31 option.

36 J-10C is best choice for PAF. US stealth fighter F-35 has been delayed due to challenges of technological advancements. China is more than a decade behind US in aerospace what makes you think J-31 will delivered on time and will have all the capability ?

 

[Tipu7]

J-10C

what is the prominent difference between J10b and J10c?
Both are in prototype stages..........

 

[graphican]

Source and references ?

36 J-10C is best choice for PAF. US stealth fighter F-35 has been delayed due to challenges of technological advancements. China is more than a decade behind US in aerospace what makes you think J-31 will delivered on time and will have all the capability ?

We would need J-31s in a decade's time. To take care of Rafael, we need something half way though.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

what is the prominent difference between J10b and J10c?
Both are in prototype stages..........

J-10C is upgraded semi-stealth multi-role variant of J-10B with enhanced 4th generation electronics including a more powerful AESA radar, more composite material and a more powerful engine was under development. The J-10C took to the sky for the first time on Dec 31, 2013.

We would need J-31s in a decade's time. To take care of Rafael, we need something half way though.

Exactly !

 

[OrionHunter]

China doesn't sell us this stuff.. it invests in Pakistan's security and ultimately its own sustainability. They have already offered us lots of stuff for free, like L-15 came free and so did Z-10s. There were news that If Pakistan commits to buy one squadron of J-10, China would provide the other for free. Again, cannot confirm this news but above two examples are ample for us to understand dynamics of Pak-China relationship. This relationship is deeper than buyer-seller relationship you usually see in the defense market.

Arre bhai, please remember that the Chinese are astute and thorough businessmen. They'll give nothing for free or discounts unless it is advantageous to them in some way. For example, the Chinese government and banks are providing the funds to private Chinese consortia to build the Kashgar-Gwadar highway, electric power plants and so on. These private companies will be extracting their pound of flesh for profits. Guess who is going to pay for it? The cost per unit of electricity would be twice what you guys are paying now unless it is heavily subsidized by the government!

Remember, there are no freebies in this world!

 

[A2Z]

36 J-10C is best choice for PAF

It is, but even if we get J-10 it would be J-10B which is being produced J-10C is still a prototype and wont be available any time soon.

To take care of Rafael, we need something half way though.

A combination of JF-17 block 2 (50+) and J-10B(36) would easily take care of them. IAF has now ordered only 36 rafales so they pose a lesser threat as compared to the previous number of 126. However MKIs pose a greater threat than Rafales.

J-10C is upgraded semi-stealth multi-role variant of J-10B with enhanced 4th generation electronics including a more powerful AESA radar, more composite material and a more powerful engine was under development. The J-10C took to the sky for the first time on Dec 31, 2013.

It would be one hell of a machine the chinese claim it would be able to take care of any thing US and the west throws on it as long as its not 5th generation. On another page they claim it would be something comparable to F/A-18 Super Hornet and would surpass Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen NG.

 

[Viper0011.]

Arre bhai, please remember that the Chinese are astute and thorough businessmen. They'll give nothing for free or discounts unless it is advantageous to them in some way. For example, the Chinese government and banks are providing the funds to private Chinese consortia to build the Kashgar-Gwadar highway, electric power plants and so on. These private companies will be extracting their pound of flesh for profits.

Remember, there are no freebies in this world!

And your issue is....???? Oh I get it, Pakistan's a pain in the rear, always been and always will be. Actually a much bigger pain in the next 5-10 years as a part of the Indian economy wil be competing with them for business as well.

There are no freebees, we all get that. But whoever is investing, has a right to make money. Who grow their economy, creates millions of jobs, creates wealth, starts internal industries and competes for global businesses? Pakistan does!!!!

Isn't it the same when India asks other weapons and other companies to outsource to India??? They still make profits and take money but the Indians get jobs and growth and all. So why is it OK for India to get investments and all, and not for Pakistan????

 

[OrionHunter]

There are no freebees, we all get that. But whoever is investing, has a right to make money. Who grow their economy, creates millions of jobs, creates wealth, starts internal industries and competes for global businesses? Pakistan does!!!!

Firstly I never said that investments were bad for Pakistan. Secondly, how is the $40 billion investment going to create millions of jobs for Pakistanis? 11,000 Chinese engineers, PLA, and Chinese workers are already stationed in G/B for infrastructure development of the Kashgar - Gwadar road. So where jobs for the Pakistanis are concerned.....Oh never mind. You know who's got the jobs. The Chinese themselves. And this is going to be the norm throughout!

Thirdly, what 'internal industries' are you talking about? Fourthly, what 'global business' are you going to compete in? Can you elucidate instead of just shooting from your hip?

 

[My-Analogous]

Sorry to say, NO PTI'er is available on that Issue??

Off the topic: It is not come under NA 246

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Firstly I never said that investments were bad for Pakistan. Secondly, how is the $40 billion investment going to create millions of jobs for Pakistanis? 11,000 Chinese engineers, PLA, and Chinese workers are already stationed in G/B for infrastructure development of the Kashgar - Gwadar road. So where jobs for the Pakistanis are concerned.....Oh never mind. You know who's got the jobs. The Chinese themselves. And this is going to be the norm throughout!

Thirdly, what 'internal industries' are you talking about? Fourthly, what 'global business' are you going to compete in? Can you elucidate instead of just shooting from your hip?

46 billion dollar agreements... Mostly energy,infrastructure and PAK-China economic corridor.

11,000 chinese in Gilgit Baltistan province?LMAO

Most of these projects are joint ventures .. Chinese companies + PAK companies both private & state owned like FWO etc.

For example.. The new Islamabad airport 60% of the work is bein done by chinese companies (who also hire third party contractors n construction companies aswell) and 40% by Frontier Works Organisation (FWO)... And even Chinese companies are hiring Pak engineers and workers (by cousin (electrical eng) is working for China State)... And so on ..

All in all the projects will help Pakistan economically aswell as China .. A win win situation for both countries.

China doesn't sell us this stuff.. it invests in Pakistan's security and ultimately its own sustainability. They have already offered us lots of stuff for free, like L-15 came free and so did Z-10s. There were news that If Pakistan commits to buy one squadron of J-10, China would provide the other for free. Again, cannot confirm this news but above two examples are ample for us to understand dynamics of Pak-China relationship. This relationship is deeper than buyer-seller relationship you usually see in the defense market.

Offering is these weapons also benefits China .. Pak military is known for its high standards ..

Il give you an example (I have before) we bought the Chinese SLC-2 arty locating radars .. After analysing an using them Pak army guys pointed out a few issues .. We sorted them out hence improved the overall product .. And notified and points it out to the Chinese .. The rest of the batches had no issues .. In the past when we were under sanction and the Chinese went that advanced w used to modify the Chinese weapons .. I.E: the Tanks that we were building under license (they were modified,imagery systems and FCS were sorted out either locally or from EU (France and Italy)... The F-7s we put our own HUDs,Martin Baker seats and Griffo radars ... Now it's a different ball game .. The Chinese are pumping hundreds of billions of dollars in defence R&D .. Collaborating with the Europeans and Israelis much more and producing sophisticated weapons unlike before.