What's new

Conspiracy theories: How much do you trust your Government and Main Stream Media?

Do you trust your Government and MSM?

  • Absolutely

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Mostly

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • On the fence. I prefer to form my own conclusions

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • Never! Have my tin foil hat on

    Votes: 3 17.6%

  • Total voters
    17

Spectre

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
3,735
Reaction score
46
Country
India
Location
India
What is exactly a conspiracy theory and how does it differ from a normal theory or alternate explanations?

Let's take the most prevalent conspiracy theory of our times: 9/11 Attacks - Some claim that the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 was actually caused by a controlled demolition orchestrated by the U.S. government. Some say it was the Jews in America who masterminded this and some lay the blame at the door of Israel.

We often tend to dismiss these folks as crazy but sometimes they do turn out right like in case of Govt Secret Surveillance.

So what draws the line b/w a 9/11 denier and someone who believes Govt lies to us about surveillance and invasion of privacy? After all the logic goes that if the same Govt can lie about secret surveillance then it can lie about 9/11 too and the whole Osama thing and so on and so on.

While there are no easy answers and neat boxes in which we can put the crazies and the merely inquisitive activists. There are still a couple of basic things we can do to form a reasonable conclusion about the narrative being put out by Govt and question it without sounding like conspiracy theorists

1. We have to check out biases out - These biases comes in all forms of shapes and sizes

a. Religious Bias: In current context most of Islamic World is going to aggressively question and deny facts emerging out western narrative be it 9/11, Osama neutralization, acts of terrorism conducted by Muslims elsewhere. This is because such narrative is not comfortable, it denounces them as a group and brings shame to their religion. Easier way out is to just dismiss this by making the West a villain in the whole piece. Once you have villain and are convinced nothing coming out from it can be trusted then you are comfortable in your bubble once again.

b. Class and Cultural Bias: We often hear stuff like Bankers are controlling everything. Anything goes wrong - Blame Goldman Sachs and by extension the rich. This bias is prevalent among young activists and hackers. Groups like anonymous aggressively try to forward this belief by trying to act "evil megacorps" or conventional politicians secure in their assumption that these landed folks are trying to screw the poor.

c. Geographical and Racial Bias - A Pakistani is likely to view anything coming out of India as bull manure and vice versa recent example we have seen with almost everyone saying that attacks on Uri Camp was a false flag while Indians believe every attack on it's soil has Pakistani fingerprints. Blacks in Americas similarly view whites with suspicion given their checkered history.

All these biases are not exclusive but feed off each other - Muslim in Pakistan which is a third world country is more likely distrust a White US President in US due to religious, cultural and geographical angle. While a Muslim in let's say America might be more believing of it's govt an India in America will believe him even more and a Rich White Irish American might never think to doubt it

It is neigh impossible to get rid of these biases but we can acknowledge them and check the narrative and conclusions to see if they are present. Let's do that

You hear a rumor out in the streets or social media saying that CIA Contractors are planning to take out Erdogan in Turkey. US Govt denies this. Whom You believe?
 
Last edited:
. .
they say Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist:

 
.
Govt Yes MSM No. All media is biased (whether to the right or the left) My right wing tendencies leads me to distrust a left wing media. I combine MSM with Social Media to form my opinion
 
.
Not everything is Conspiracy theory. Things like corruption and biasness of any kind can't be hide.
Only if the main stream media doesn't show, this doesn't mean it's not there at all. Society has it's own facts and figures.

For example West Germans are bias towards East Germans and people of Baveria look down upon their other countrymen, no body out side Germany knows this and no media shows this and tries to hide, but fact is there in society.
 
.
What is exactly a conspiracy theory and how does it differ from a normal theory or alternate explanations?

Let's take the most prevalent conspiracy theory of our times: 9/11 Attacks - Some claim that the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 was actually caused by a controlled demolition orchestrated by the U.S. government. Some say it was the Jews in America who masterminded this and some lay the blame at the door of Israel.

We often tend to dismiss these folks as crazy but sometimes they do turn out right like in case of Govt Secret Surveillance.

So what draws the line b/w a 9/11 denier and someone who believes Govt lies to us about surveillance and invasion of privacy? After all the logic goes that if the same Govt can lie about secret surveillance then it can lie about 9/11 too and the whole Osama thing and so on and so on.

While there are no easy answers and neat boxes in which we can put the crazies and the merely inquisitive activists. There are still a couple of basic things we can do to form a reasonable conclusion about the narrative being put out by Govt and question it without sounding like conspiracy theorists

1. We have to check out biases out - These biases comes in all forms of shapes and sizes

a. Religious Bias: In current context most of Islamic World is going to aggressively question and deny facts emerging out western narrative be it 9/11, Osama neutralization, acts of terrorism conducted by Muslims elsewhere. This is because such narrative is not comfortable, it denounces them as a group and brings shame to their religion. Easier way out is to just dismiss this by making the West a villain in the whole piece. Once you have villain and are convinced nothing coming out from it can be trusted then you are comfortable in your bubble once again.

b. Class and Cultural Bias: We often hear stuff like Bankers are controlling everything. Anything goes wrong - Blame Goldman Sachs and by extension the rich. This bias is prevalent among young activists and hackers. Groups like anonymous aggressively try to forward this belief by trying to act "evil megacorps" or conventional politicians secure in their assumption that these landed folks are trying to screw the poor.

c. Geographical and Racial Bias - A Pakistani is likely to view anything coming out of India as bull manure and vice versa recent example we have seen with almost everyone saying that attacks on Uri Camp was a false flag while Indians believe every attack on it's soil has Pakistani fingerprints. Blacks in Americas similarly view whites with suspicion given their checkered history.

All these biases are not exclusive but feed off each other - Muslim in Pakistan which is a third world country is more likely distrust a White US President in US due to religious, cultural and geographical angle. While a Muslim in let's say America might be more believing of it's govt an India in America will believe him even more and a Rich White Irish American might never think to doubt it

It is neigh impossible to get rid of these biases but we can acknowledge them and check the narrative and conclusions to see if they are present. Let's do that

You hear a rumor out in the streets or social media saying that CIA Contractors are planning to take out Erdogan in Turkey. US Govt denies this. Whom You believe?
India is Mostly Report Credible News

Though Some reports Are Some time Bias for Political Reasons

Though Like free Media they Don't Scared go against any one
 
.
Not everything is Conspiracy theory. Things like corruption and biasness of any kind can't be hide.
Only if the main stream media doesn't show, this doesn't mean it's not there at all. Society has it's own facts and figures.

For example West Germans are bias towards East Germans and people of Baveria look down upon their other countrymen, no body out side Germany knows this and no media shows this and tries to hide, but fact is there in society.

I get this point - it happens everywhere for eg someone from Midwest in US might be looked down by the New Yorkers or in case of India Biharis are look down upon by Mumbaikars.

This is just an example of class bias.

What I am more interested in is how these biases affect are ability to perceive communication from Media, Govt going to fringe conspiracy sites.

So while an absurd thing like 9/11 staged might actually insult the New Yorkers it might not raise an eyebrow in Arab World. So it becomes a conspiracy theory in one place and a fact of life in other.

India is Mostly Report Credible News

Though Some reports Are Some time Bias for Political Reasons

A news comes out

Narendra modi is stalking a Gujrati girl, sources are quoted as retired police officials. Do you think it's a conspiracy theory?
 
.
I get this point - it happens everywhere for eg someone from Midwest in US might be looked down by the New Yorkers or in case of India Biharis are look down upon by Mumbaikars.

This is just an example of class bias.

What I am more interested in is how these biases affect are ability to perceive communication from Media, Govt going to fringe conspiracy sites.

So while an absurd thing like 9/11 staged might actually insult the New Yorkers it might not raise an eyebrow in Arab World. So it becomes a conspiracy theory in port Daone place and a fact of life in other.



A news comes out

Narendra modi is stalking a Gujrati girl, sources are quoted as retired police officials. Do you think it's a conspiracy theory?
Like I said they Sometime Report Which Suits Political Reasons but they report what they got or given to them it happens every where in BBC or CNN

They also do this on Daamad ji robert vadra and rahul baba Without any Fear I never Seen Old Media of 90's have this much guts to go against Gandhi family and Survive
 
.
Both of my parents are affiliated with the Norwegian government (one a politician, the other a high-ranking military official).

I don't trust my parents.

Therefore I don't trust the Norwegian government:woot:!!

Logic!!!

...

Alright, that an oversimplification of the matter. Do I trust my government? If other nations and foreigners do, I should believe they are considered trustworthy. Even without access to relevant Norwegian experiences, external populations have a good grasp on the "eye test".

As for the media, a balanced perspective is always best. Seek not the popular, seek not the obscure, but seek a balance of sources... just keep away from known conspiracy or satirical sites like the Onion or Infowars.

In any event, I'm ready for any eventuality!
158614589.jpg
 
.
A news comes out

Narendra modi is stalking a Gujrati girl, sources are quoted as retired police officials. Do you think it's a conspiracy theory?

If this news is false then it is just a case of libel. If true it will probably mean just the end of Narendra Modis political career

But this event in itself certainly can't be classified as a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory usually has wider ramifications than the career/reputation of a single person.

My 2 cents
 
.
When I wake up, I read the local news. Then I read the international news (BBC/CNN/etc.)

It's all the same to be honest. Just more explosions in the Middle East etc.
 
. .
When I wake up, I read the local news. Then I read the international news (BBC/CNN/etc.)

It's all the same to be honest. Just more explosions in the Middle East etc.

This is besides the point - Does your nationality affect how you perceive the truthfulness of this news? CNN accuses China of arming NKO or Pakistan - Do you think it's a conspiracy theory? or for that matter when China says US is putting THAAD missiles in SKO for it's protection against N.Ko. and Chinese media says that it is aimed towards China despite it making no sense as S.Ko and China has quite cordial relation.

If this news is false then it is just a case of libel. If true it will probably mean just the end of Narendra Modis political career

But this event in itself certainly can't be classified as a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory usually has wider ramifications than the career/reputation of a single person.

My 2 cents

Why not? The actual veracity of the news is inconsequential however the seeds of doubts it plants in minds of independents is the real deal. To most people it would be absurd but to certain people it will not be. This news will have substantial effect on future of India depending on how many people believe it at the time.

Both of my parents are affiliated with the Norwegian government (one a politician, the other a high-ranking military official).

I don't trust my parents.

Therefore I don't trust the Norwegian government:woot:!!

Logic!!!

...

Alright, that an oversimplification of the matter. Do I trust my government? If other nations and foreigners do, I should believe they are considered trustworthy. Even without access to relevant Norwegian experiences, external populations have a good grasp on the "eye test".

As for the media, a balanced perspective is always best. Seek not the popular, seek not the obscure, but seek a balance of sources... just keep away from known conspiracy or satirical sites like the Onion or Infowars.

In any event, I'm ready for any eventuality!
158614589.jpg

The problem is actually quite serious despite the trivial nature of OP

Techno let's for example assume you are living in Turkey - every source popular and obscure screams one thing which is in direct contradiction with overall international reporting. Now in your bubble - it creates an adversarial mentality that there are folks who are out to get you, destroy your way of life and such. While in reality nothing of that sort is happening.

In the end it comes down to how susceptible the people are to rhetoric - You would be surprised to know that after 9/11 when democrats were polled almost 40% of registered democrats assumed Bush had something shady going on along with CIA. So the problem is not only restricted to less educated or exposed societies but to one of the most informed ones too..

I am just trying to understand that why do such a large number of people choose to believe in the absurd and crazy? Certainly biases form a large part to it but is something much deeper? Like on an instinctual level we know such and such thing is not right and we rebel despite all the information to the contrary.
 
.
Why not? The actual veracity of the news is inconsequential however the seeds of doubts it plants in minds of independents is the real deal. To most people it would be absurd but to certain people it will not be. This news will have substantial effect on future of India depending on how many people believe it at the time.

Well if you believe the Indian future lies with Modi at the helm then yes. Like I said the theory should have far reaching consequences.

But if you believe he is a an ordinary Prime Minister like his predecessors then it is just an accusation nothing else
 
.
This is besides the point - Does your nationality affect how you perceive the truthfulness of this news?

What I read, yes. But not so much how I perceive the truthfulness of the info as I'll seek alternative viewpoints when presented with something of consequence. For local news like festivals in Oslo over the weekend, or political happenings in our government, I trust these as no outside influence would really care enough to try and offer an alternative, competing viewpoint and there's little to no reason for them to be altered anyway.

For major happenings like the Utoya Island Attack, I wait a few days before gathering news since the initial moments are always chaotic, but then I seek news from other sources to verify or expand on what I'm reading locally, not that most outside sources had anything to offer.

I'm savvy enough with communications to recognize overtly or covertly slanted info and while I'll still approach them, I do so cautiously. Many conspiracy theories arose out of the Utoya indicent, like any mass tragedy.

My political leaning influences my perception too, or at least where I'm most likely to seek info from as a primary sources. So where I get my news or what I read is canted. I don't typically pay much attention to happenings in the SCS unless it involves the US, a fellow NATO partner who could influence our interest in the region if things get hot. Like wise in the Middle East. I follow our interests or geopolitical partners, but local events or even major happenings tend not to peak my interest.

Despite being Norwegian, I don't inherently look at the Russians or their media with distrust and do value their media as an alternative viewpoint to US or European alternatives. It's only the East Asian or South Asian sources that I don't really bother with, but mostly it's because I don't concern myself with the happenings of either region, rather then the trustworthiness of the sources.

The problem is actually quite serious despite the trivial nature of OP

Oh I know, I'm just not feeling very serious today.

Techno let's for example assume you are living in Turkey - every source popular and obscure screams one thing which is in direct contradiction with overall international reporting. Now in your bubble - it creates an adversarial mentality that there are folks who are out to get you, destroy your way of life and such. While in reality nothing of that sort is happening.

Same's been happening in Russia with independent sources dwindling or being intimidated or drowned out by the state-led narrative. I recognize it's serious, following the US-Turkey coup spat showed me how interesting these types of dynamics are with competing narratives and assignment of blame or attribution of guilt in the incident with either side rejecting the others narrative, but I can't say that my experience follows the same course.

Unless I'm truly, super deluded into think it doesn't:o:! Remind me to stock up on tin-foil next time I go shopping.

You hear a rumor out in the streets or social media saying that CIA Contractors are planning to take out Erdogan in Turkey. US Govt denies this. Whom You believe?

Neither party because they've both a poor history and an interest in maintaining, presenting and proving their narrative, no matter if it's true or not. We can't know what the CIA is doing without some sort of high-value look into its operations, like an NSA leak (though Snowden has been radically exaggerating his claims recently).

On the same side, we don't trust the Turks without them providing evidence to support their claims, evidence we are unlikely to be able to corroborate.

So either side is offering hearsay as far as we civilians are concerned, and the truth is there somewhere, but we're blind to it.
 
Last edited:
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom