Congratulations, Mullahs - #KillAllMuslims is now trending worldwide

[Jungibaaz]

@Horus @Jungibaaz @waz - I feel we've had enough of this guy trying to justify terrorism and murder, don't you think?

This is a valid complaint, and we'll review it. But so far, this person has not explicitly stated his support for a terrorist group.
Also, it's important to have at least one 'on the fence' person like him so that we members may learn and debate with almost a full spectrum of perspectives.

 

[Zarvan]

The fact that I have given evidence and other examples for my assertions while you keep repeating things like a parrot proves that I have, indeed, destroyed every single argument.

So waging war against Muslims, leading battles against Muslims, killing Muslims and raising armies against Muslims are not a reason?

Prove it.

The Quran and Sahih Hadees take precedence over Fiqh.

If that is true, the majority is stupid. Period. Trying to ''preserve'' the Prophet (s.a.w)'s honor by disobeying everything he stood for is stupid.

You never could deny the verses from the Quran, you never could prove they were out of context (because they were not), you never could prove that the people killed were killed solely for blasphemy and not the fifty dozen other crimes they committed, you never could explain why the Prophet forgave the two groups of Jews or the Bedoin who urinated in front of him - essentially, you're saying he was a hypocrite (astaghfirullah). Why else would he kill some for blasphemy and forgive the others. And why else would he tell his wife and his sahaba to respond in a proportionate manner?

I'm just going to copy-paste my previous post, which is full of proof and references.

All this was posted here Is blasphemy a pardonable offense?
And you didn't - or couldn't - reply to it in that thread.

Instead, you find hints from interpretations (tafseers) of the Quran and third-party, unreliable sources (like At-Tabari) and try to invalidate clear commands from the Quran and Sahih Hadiths. Fiqh doesn't work that way and neither does logic.
Go ahead, deny the Quran, deny the Hadiths but then don't call yourself a Muslim and don't kill people in the name of Islam, since you've clearly abandoned all of Islam's principles.

@Horus @Jungibaaz @waz - I feel we've had enough of this guy trying to justify terrorism and murder, don't you think?

Sorry but you are lying both about Quran and Hadees telling ayats out of context and also Hadees. I don't support terrorism I just tell the reasons why its happening and the reasons and without addressing them you can't end it but people like you are to deaf and dumb to hear this so go ahead problem will keep growing until you address the reasons

 

[TankMan]

This is a valid complaint, and we'll review it. But so far, this person has not explicitly stated his support for a terrorist group.
Also, it's important to have at least one 'on the fence' person like him so that we members may learn and debate with almost a full spectrum of perspectives.

Right, thank you. I agree that we should have different perspectives, but at this point he's like a punching bag, repeating the same thing over and over again despite being proven wrong - anyhow, I understand how it might not be fair to take action against him.

Sorry but you are lying both about Quran and Hadees telling ayats out of context and also Hadees.

"Produce your proof, if you should be truthful..." [Al Baqarah 2:111]

The ayats I have given are both Madani and Makki, there is no way you can argue about 'context'. Plus, they're addressed to believers in general - i.e not just the Holy Prophet, further widening their context.

I don't see how you can tell Hadees out of context. Do you mean to say those Jews didn't Insult him or do you mean to say he didn't forgive him? And how can context change the fact that a man urinated infront of the prophet, in a mosque? No amount of 'context' can change the message of those hadees.

Your arguments make no sense.

 

[Nihil]

How does twitter allow that hashtag? That's inciting hate and encouraging violence

I agree. I will defend freedom of speech till my last breath, but that hashtag is hate speech.

 

[A.M.]

OP is a genious. Turns out that there was in fact a mullah in Paris spewing radical sermons and influencing many of the younger muslims kids into thinking it was OK to kill other people.

Anytime something like this happens, there is always a mullah somewhere who started it all. I wonder how many kids are being turned at Red Mosque in Islamabad.

I agree. I will defend freedom of speech till my last breath, but that hashtag is hate speech.

And experience tells you to just let it die out instead of trying to control it.

 

[Zarvan]

Right, thank you. I agree that we should have different perspectives, but at this point he's like a punching bag, repeating the same thing over and over again despite being proven wrong - anyhow, I understand how it might not be fair to take action against him.


"Produce your proof, if you should be truthful..." [Al Baqarah 2:111]

The ayats I have given are both Madani and Makki, there is no way you can argue about 'context'. Plus, they're addressed to believers in general - i.e not just the Holy Prophet, further widening their context.

I don't see how you can tell Hadees out of context. Do you mean to say those Jews didn't Insult him or do you mean to say he didn't forgive him? And how can context change the fact that a man urinated infront of the prophet, in a mosque? No amount of 'context' can change the message of those hadees.

Your arguments make no sense.

Urinating in front of a mosque is different thing and two prisoners of badar were both killed because they insulted RASOOL SAW than a blind Sahabi killed his slave girl for abusing RASOOL SAW she was killed than there was another poet other than kaab who was killed for same reason two people in Fatah e Makkah were killed for same reason and few more examples in life of RASOOL SAW and than this punishment was also given to people by 4 Caliphs

 

[Jungibaaz]

Sorry but you are lying both about Quran and Hadees telling ayats out of context and also Hadees. I don't support terrorism I just tell the reasons why its happening and the reasons and without addressing them you can't end it but people like you are to deaf and dumb to hear this so go ahead problem will keep growing until you address the reasons

Rules of logical debate:

If person A claims one thing and wishes to be believed, then he must provide sufficient evidence.
If the evidence is provided, and person B disagrees, then if person B wants to be believed, it is upon him to provide counter-evidence and reasoning, or deal with the validity of either the source or it's interpretation and context WITH empirical debate following basic logic at it's most simple level.

If you can't do that, spare us the one liners please.

 

[taimur12]

i don't know what you guys are debating about here. this is like the same stupid stuff i read on my facebook timeline. like the rest in peace steve jobs messages. why not rest in hell forever steve jobs? why not hey, you people that were murdered in cold blood, enjoy your stay in hell now. stay in hell forever! it's criminal hypocrisy.

every poll. literally, every poll conducted in all of the muslim countries shows over whelming support for shariah law. stoning to death, cutting of hand and feet, and yes death for abusing the prophet. and now this guy is a terrorist with no religion and against islam?

stand up. if you believe islam is right then defend stoning to death. defend cutting of hand and feet. defend death sentence for changing religion. don't be a hypocrite and give me this cowardly view, oh islam is religion of peace, terrorists have no religion, bullcrap!

what made this international news is the fact that this happened in france. if these cartoonist were in any muslim country, they would be killed by the law! they would be sentenced to death by the court!

 

[Nihil]

i don't know what you guys are debating about here. this is like the same stupid stuff i read on my facebook timeline. like the rest in peace steve jobs messages. why not rest in hell forever steve jobs? why not hey, you people that were murdered in cold blood, enjoy your stay in hell now. stay in hell forever! it's criminal hypocrisy.

every poll. literally, every poll conducted in all of the muslim countries shows over whelming support for shariah law. stoning to death, cutting of hand and feet, and yes death for abusing the prophet. and now this guy is a terrorist with no religion and against islam?

stand up. if you believe islam is right then defend stoning to death. defend cutting of hand and feet. defend death sentence for changing religion. don't be a hypocrite and give me this cowardly view, oh islam is religion of peace, terrorists have no religion, bullcrap!

what made this international news is the fact that this happened in france. if these cartoonist were in any muslim country, they would be killed by the law! they would be sentenced to death by the court!

@TankMan @ayesha.a @Jungibaaz @Oscar
If I may comment as an outsider, I do NOT think the issue is religion. For the very simple reason is that all major religions condone violence, and have had violent histories. In fact there were several posters here who were using the past violence in Christianity as an example. Also the insinuation against Islam (as an outsider - I was born, and am atheist) is that it has not changed much in the past several centuries is utter bullshit. That is a charge that could be labelled against every single religion in the world again.
So then why do incidents like these happen, and why does Boko Haram happen?
It is because every ideology has a seedy side, and can be twisted for violence. For example, in Hinduism in Manushastra thieves and spies are to be crushed under an elephant, while your wife is worth four cows. Do Indians and Nepalis on average agitate for that? OK some do like Sakshi Maharaj, but they are morons. Similarly if you look deep enough, most Muslims demand Sharia but the vast majority do not have a clue about what it actually entails. To them, it is a utopian, mythical source of law that will be better than their current state. It is an unicorn, rather than a cure.
This is because in many of these societies violence exists in the fabric, independent of religion. Their male chauvinism, like the Saudi version, uses religion as a shield. Islam is not even a symptom of the problem. It is a medicine for a different disease, and the presence or absence of Islam has nothing to do with problems. If Islam had never existed, that violence would still have existed by a different name.
In many ways, it is Islam's initial democracy that is the source of their problems. It was the world's first egalatarian religion, and whatever rights the west may claim, till a century back Islam had a better track record for human rights than all western societies. Thus Islam was always a religion for the downtrodden masses. And cultural, imperial and colonial forces have still connived to keep them so. That violence is a symptom of a society where simply civilization is a bit dimmer.
Focusing on Islam absolutely won't solve anything. What is urgently needed is good governance. Why have radical Islamists succeeded? Because more often than not secular governments have failed. They have failed not because of religion, but due to corruption and due to failure to provide services. Violence, and governmental corruption go hand in hand. You want less violence. Start from a clean government first.
The common sense solution and also the hardest one would be to establish proper governance and economies in these regions. The rise of ISIS has much to do with the failure of the Iraqi government. Combating that would mean proper aid, not aid as a means of funneling US taxpayer money to corporate America. It would mean reining in the Halliburtons and the Shells and the BPs of this world. There is a talk by Ajit Doval, a man much disliked by sections of the PDF where he mentions that every state that failed in past 25 years had economic disaffection, and the failure of governance as the root cause. The presence, or absence of military might has no correlation to success as a state. Similarly, the focus should be on stable, inclusive governance. Islam is a distraction.

DISCLAIMER: I am neither condoning the attacks, nor am I blaming anybody else other than the attackers themselves. They killed people, they are terrorists - period. What I am interested in is the future -- to prevent such attacks, and the solutions and the means to do so.

 

[taimur12]

@Nihil completely disagree.

Muslims demand Sharia but the vast majority do not have a clue about what it actually entails. To them, it is a utopian, mythical source of law that will be better than their current state. It is an unicorn, rather than a cure.

they believe in it because that is the word of god and it is "wrong", because you can't go around cutting peoples' hands and feet for petty crimes. shariah law is barbaric and you can't have it. this needs to be stated clearly. the people believe and want it because it is gods law. and it is "WRONG."

Focusing on Islam absolutely won't solve anything. What is urgently needed is good governance. Why have radical Islamists succeeded? Because more often than not secular governments have failed. They have failed not because of religion, but due to corruption and due to failure to provide services. Violence, and governmental corruption go hand in hand. You want less violence. Start from a clean government first.

bush's administration failed miserably, started two wars, economy went into a recession. the people of the united states now demand the old testament and that anyone that works on sunday should be killed. that doesn't happen, because it has nothing to do with governance. muslims want shariah because it is the word of god. what has changed recently is the armed resistance. the element of jihad. and so more than ever this notion needs to be crushed. not fighting it and apologizing for it defeats rational thought. Eppur si muove!

 

[waz]

The thread has had its day.

We know this trend wasn't popular, it became popular when people started to discuss and then condemn it. There is a great deal of off-topic stuff.

I hope you understand brother @TankMan