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Congrats India for 3 Trillion GDP

Sounds good from outside and the way they are handling procedures i am sure it will be top notch quality then it will all fall to price.

That is correct but we are fopcusing on electric cars too and you will see tons of steps taken towards electric cars. We already have models ready but main problem is electric gas stations. We don't have any infrastructure :D

China and India have same market challenges that's why Chinese industries flourish in India if with Govt approval as they feel same condition as compare to China 10-15 years ago.


You are wrong friend as it is nearing 3 Trillion so lets wait for the official confirmation.

View attachment 532740

IMF October -18 prediction.

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPD@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD/IND

i heard alot from countries like malaysia, indonesia, india. all want to jump into EV industries, but all have no strategy to win the game.

China start to stimulate the EV industries by giving huge subsidies, once the tech start matured and the cost will go down. and EV will competitive enough to compete with combustion engine car.
China also buying spree global resources for EV battery and dominated the supply chain.
last is building the infrastructure.

in this world only China, US and Europe ready for EV, the rest of the world will follow after 10 years, maybe around 2030.
 
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i heard alot from countries like malaysia, indonesia, india. all want to jump into EV industries, but all have no strategy to win the game.

China start to stimulate the EV industries by giving huge subsidies, once the tech start matured and the cost will go down. and EV will competitive enough to compete with combustion engine car.
China also buying spree global resources for EV battery and dominated the supply chain.
last is building the infrastructure.

in this world only China, US and Europe ready for EV, the rest of the world will follow after 10 years, maybe around 2030.
Wow that is our actual timeline "2030" so you are right about that. I hope we engage with China and reduce that timeline to 2025.
 
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Its so heartening to see we reach that mark. Despite demonetization and GST the country showed a lot of resilience.
 
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I know they have predicted that, however, due to exchange rate fluctuations in 2018, we don't have that per capita :(
If the exchange rate picks up, in 2020, we'll have a per capita of about $12k.

Why does it really matter what the exact number in USD is in the end? Think about it, it only matters what Chinese people are able to produce and consume in physical quantity (as long as that increases good year to year, thats progress). You cannot eat USD....neither do you control its production and seigniorage either (only can do that for CNY). If you do well in that, automatically over time...it will get better in every other reference point not under China control too.

@GeraltofRivia
 
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Why does it really matter what the exact number in USD is in the end? Think about it, it only matters what Chinese people are able to produce and consume in physical quantity (as long as that increases good year to year, thats progress). You cannot eat USD....neither do you control its production and seigniorage either (only can do that for CNY). If you do well in that, automatically over time...it will get better in every other reference point not under China control too.

@GeraltofRivia
Agree. The GDP per capita figure should be interpreted as a board measurement of economical activities and a guidance to state of economy, as opposed to a reading from a engineering instrument like a speedometer. Many elements are derived from surveys and are subjected to “adjustments”. It is clearly a useful, convenient (relatively speaking) and generally consistent measure but it’s not a reading. Turning it into common currency like USD and inflation adjusted makes it more muddy and “philosophical”.

As long as we know that China are producing things about 5-7% give or take more each years, and people’s live are improving along the way, we should be happy.

On the other hand, it certainly served as a good reminder that Chinese living standard is still 1/5th -1/6th of that of US so we have a long way to go.
 
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it certainly served as a good reminder that Chinese living standard is still 1/5th -1/6th of that of US so we have a long way to go.

I'd say more like a quarter given I prefer to go by PPP, esp for living standards.

But given it was 1/20th and much lower before (whatever the measure) for long time...and even 1/10th not that long ago...yeah its just mostly semantics given the progress is clearly huge.

The East is reclaiming its glory and wealth, thats great to see. The world becomes all the more competitive and stable.
 
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Why does it really matter what the exact number in USD is in the end? Think about it, it only matters what Chinese people are able to produce and consume in physical quantity (as long as that increases good year to year, thats progress). You cannot eat USD....neither do you control its production and seigniorage either (only can do that for CNY). If you do well in that, automatically over time...it will get better in every other reference point not under China control too.

@GeraltofRivia

But there are also many disadvantages about PPP.
Therefore, the Chinese Government does not recognize it.

We also focus on the total GDP of RMB. This is more useful than PPP for us.:-)
 
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But there are also many disadvantages about PPP.

No system is perfect, we are talking about lot of data gathering, processing and refinement in the end....each stage has defects and flaws...each stage creates information loss (especially when you refine).

Therefore, the Chinese Government does not recognize it.

What you mean does not recognise? China certainly expanded the ICP sampling regimen past the cities (like it was before and thus not so good for China). China certainly recognises the validity of it...PPP is used in HDI and plenty of indices instead of nominal.

We also focus on the total GDP of RMB. This is more useful than PPP for us.

Well PPP is merely the bridge to compare GDP (in RMB, Yen, Rupee, Euro, Ruble, ringgit, rupiah, SGD, Pound, Swiss France, CAD etc etc etc) of local currencies to each other directly without having to bridge through USD (that every country in the world except just one.... do not control the printing and underlying seigniorage of)....given USD is not a 100% ubiquitous reference in every country, not even close. Neither can it be ideally extrapolated at exchange rate level (which is determined by trade/investment) to an entire country production (especially when the trade level percentage wise is low compared to GDP..... and the trade composition is different to the GDP composition in terms of goods and services).

So of course RMB (for China) or whatever local currency of a country is the 1st most useful thing (thats what provides the underlying production and growth data in the first place).

I am talking more about when we want to compare A and B across the fact countries have different currencies they control and measure in. Using USD as this bridge exclusively (or even largely) is flawed, because not everyone has connected to USD forex the same way and same level (and neither is that a static level as the larger world globalises and insulates in spurts in different industries and activities of relevance).

This is part of the reason why for example it is very dumb to use USD nominal per capita numbers for China say pre 1980s when it was hugely insulated and literally had tiny amounts of USD forex and foreign trade/investment (and even that low amount...went thru and was stockpiled mostly in HK for a reason). The GDP in USD was artificially depressed by this far beyond the inherent low GDP production (in both RMB and equivalent PPP if it existed back then). In fact this largely accounts for why India had higher GDP nominal per capita (in USD) during the cold war compared to China even though China had vastly larger underlying energy consumption per capita (though both were quite low overall)...its again because India (as insulated as it was from USD/global liquidity) was not as insulated as China was in that period with the larger world economy....thus USD/INR exchange rate (as distorted as it was) still captured more of the larger consumption picture than it did inside China at that time.

This was the whole part of the reason PPP system was created in the first place.....country A and country B (that are non US countries) do not necessarily have the same amount of world USD liquidity exposure/dependence at any given timeframe....in fact it can vary quite tremendously. One can compare say western europe and Russia....compare say the energy per capita consumption and then correlate it to USD nominal...there is a very large discrepancy merely caused by Russia's larger isolation from USD forex liquidity compared to Western Europe.

@Joe Shearer @anant_s @Khan_21 @Chak Bamu @farhan_9909 @LeGenD @VCheng @Major Sam @Game.Invade @Indus Pakistan @nair @MilSpec @lemurian @Oscar @That Guy @Levina
 
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No system is perfect, we are talking about lot of data gathering, processing and refinement in the end....each stage has defects and flaws...each stage creates information loss (especially when you refine).



What you mean does not recognise? China certainly expanded the ICP sampling regimen past the cities (like it was before and thus not so good for China). China certainly recognises the validity of it...PPP is used in HDI and plenty of indices instead of nominal.



Well PPP is merely the bridge to compare GDP (in RMB, Yen, Rupee, Euro, Ruble, ringgit, rupiah, SGD, Pound, Swiss France, CAD etc etc etc) of local currencies to each other directly without having to bridge through USD (that every country in the world except just one.... do not control the printing and underlying seigniorage of)....given USD is not a 100% ubiquitous reference in every country, not even close. Neither can it be ideally extrapolated at exchange rate level (which is determined by trade/investment) to an entire country production (especially when the trade level percentage wise is low compared to GDP..... and the trade composition is different to the GDP composition in terms of goods and services).

So of course RMB (for China) or whatever local currency of a country is the 1st most useful thing (thats what provides the underlying production and growth data in the first place).

I am talking more about when we want to compare A and B across the fact countries have different currencies they control and measure in. Using USD as this bridge exclusively (or even largely) is flawed, because not everyone has connected to USD forex the same way and same level (and neither is that a static level as the larger world globalises and insulates in spurts in different industries and activities of relevance).

This is part of the reason why for example it is very dumb to use USD nominal per capita numbers for China say pre 1980s when it was hugely insulated and literally had tiny amounts of USD forex and foreign trade/investment (and even that low amount...went thru and was stockpiled mostly in HK for a reason). The GDP in USD was artificially depressed by this far beyond the inherent low GDP production (in both RMB and equivalent PPP if it existed back then). In fact this largely accounts for why India had higher GDP nominal per capita (in USD) during the cold war compared to China even though China had vastly larger underlying energy consumption per capita (though both were quite low overall)...its again because India (as insulated as it was from USD/global liquidity) was not as insulated as China was in that period with the larger world economy....thus USD/INR exchange rate (as distorted as it was) still captured more of the larger consumption picture than it did inside China at that time.

This was the whole part of the reason PPP system was created in the first place.....country A and country B (that are non US countries) do not necessarily have the same amount of world USD liquidity exposure/dependence at any given timeframe....in fact it can vary quite tremendously. One can compare say western europe and Russia....compare say the energy per capita consumption and then correlate it to USD nominal...there is a very large discrepancy merely caused by Russia's larger isolation from USD forex liquidity compared to Western Europe.

@Joe Shearer @anant_s @Khan_21 @Chak Bamu @farhan_9909 @LeGenD @VCheng @Major Sam @Game.Invade @Indus Pakistan @nair @MilSpec @lemurian @Oscar @That Guy @Levina

I like your discussion around the issues of comparing GDP in USD over time as the exchange rate was under various types of undue “pressure”/liquidity issues and wasn’t necessarily a true reflection of value parity between countries. but just want to point out that the key purpose of having PPP GDP is to standardize the price level (ie purchase power) between countries and to provide an standardized view of “value” being created. PPP GDP still needs to translate from local currency to a thing called “international dollar”, which is defined as the same purchase power of USD in the US and basically USD itself.

I think what CNSpeed was trying to say is the official GDP target is the growth rate based on local currency RMB, constant price. The official source doesn’t refer either GDP in USD current or constant forms, or PPP GDP current or constant form. They are only used by academics or international agencies for comparative study purposes.
 
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But there are also many disadvantages about PPP.
Therefore, the Chinese Government does not recognize it.

We also focus on the total GDP of RMB. This is more useful than PPP for us.:-)

Indian like to use GDP in PPP for bragging purposes. They like to braga India ranked third in gdp in PPP compare to other countries. Unfortunately, they have been able to convince Daussault to sell Rafale in PPP price.

But there are also many disadvantages about PPP.
Therefore, the Chinese Government does not recognize it.

We also focus on the total GDP of RMB. This is more useful than PPP for us.:-)

Indian like to use GDP in PPP for bragging purposes. They like to braga India ranked third in gdp in PPP compare to other countries. Unfortunately, they have been able to convince Daussault to sell Rafale in PPP price.
 
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Well PPP is merely the bridge to compare GDP (in RMB, Yen, Rupee, Euro, Ruble, ringgit, rupiah, SGD, Pound, Swiss France, CAD etc etc etc) of local currencies to each other directly without having to bridge through USD (that every country in the world except just one.... do not control the printing and underlying seigniorage of)..

I like your discussion around the issues of comparing GDP in USD over time as the exchange rate was under various types of undue “pressure”/liquidity issues and wasn’t necessarily a true reflection of value parity between countries. but just want to point out that the key purpose of having PPP GDP is to standardize the price level (ie purchase power) between countries and to provide an standardized view of “value” being created. PPP GDP still needs to translate from local currency to a thing called “international dollar”, which is defined as the same purchase power of USD in the US and basically USD itself.

I think what CNSpeed was trying to say is the official GDP target is the growth rate based on local currency RMB, constant price. The official source doesn’t refer either GDP in USD current or constant forms, or PPP GDP current or constant form. They are only used by academics or international agencies for comparative study purposes.

Yep agree with your points.
 
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