Mangus Ortus Novem
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- Jun 7, 2008
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@Ace of Spades @masterchief_mirza @Mentee @StormBreaker @PakSword @DESERT FIGHTER @Behram Khilji @SIPRA @That Guy @Areesh @Khanivore @khansaheeb @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @PakFactor @Blacklight @The Eagle @Verve @Reddington @HRK @BHarwana @CrazyZ @N.Siddiqui
Dearest Paks,
Over the years on PDF one has read, read and read about the Rise of India as SuperPower. $3TrillionEconomy, $1.2+Trillion in Equity and $500+Bln in Forex... all fine and dandy. And the good Indians have all the right to brag about it. Why not!
We have been subjected to the onsulaught of the good Indians about IT superpower, Pharma superpower, Industrial superpower...on and on.... it is their good right to brag and boast or feel proud if such is the ground reality...once again Why not!
In order to rationalise the Indian advacements we need to have a comparative benchmark...which can provide us valid data point to baseline the depth of IndianPower!
There is only one country which come close for this purpose and that is China.
Perhaps, the good Indians would like to benchmark themselves with the US or Japan.... but the two are truly very high in TechnoFeudalHierachy.... so for our purposes we can resign ourselves to China as benchmark for India.
The objective of this excercise is not to ridiculte the good Indians...but help us form a Rational understanding of the Comprehensive National Strength of both Indian and China.
For this we shall use the available DataPoints ... discussed to death on PDF.
PDF can be a Goldmine for Research if it could be better organised @WebMaster @Horus
In order to filter out a Rationalised Understanding, obviously, we require a set of Matrices to compare the two giants.
I do purpose to see GDP as a byproduct of NationalOutput and not as comparative tool. In otherwords what makes the GDP and how qualitative it is.
For example, India with $3Trillion GDP is less advanced than NL...where a company like ASML is global Innovation Leader.... just a tiny example. Or Singapore with its $200Bln plus high value added exports is a tiny dot compared to the Indian GDP.
Similar example can be found for China as well.... despite it being world's second largest economy.
Whence, we are able to compile the verified Data to each matrix...without bias, we shall be able to see what is the Comprehensive National Strength of Indian vs. China.
1- Governance
There purpose of any form of government is to provide services to its citizens without biase or discrimination.
It is immaterial for governance what form or government it is.... what matters is the quality and consistency of services provided.
Be it Kingdoms, Dictators, baby-eating Communists or world's biggest democracy. The Purpose of Any Form of Gov is to provide services consistently and qualitatively.
This determines the FunctionalityQuotient of a State...i.e. Whether a State is HighFunctioningState or LessFunctioningState or a SoftState!
What is the Quality and Consistency of Services Provided by China to its citizens?
What is the Quality and Consistency of Services Provided by India to its citizesns?
How many citizens has China lifted out of absolute poverty in the last 30 years?
How many citizens has Indian lifted out of absolute poverty in the last 30 years?
What is the level and breadth of HealthCare provided to its citizens by China?
What is the level and breadth of HealthCare provided to its citizens by India?
2- Education
How many Chinese Universities are in top 100 universities of the world?
How many Indian Universities are in the top 100 universities of the world?
What is the level and quality of secondary level educaiton in China?
What is the Level and quality of secondary level eduation in India?
What is the universal secondary education % in China?
What is the universal secondary education % in India?
What is level of research in the Chinese Universities and how many papers they publish annually?
What is the level of research in the Indian Universities and how many papoer the publish annucally?
What are areas of research in the Chinese Universities and how much funding they recieve from the Gov?
What are the areas of research in the Indian Universities and how much fundig they recieve from the Indian Gov?
What is the acceptance level of the Chinese degree Internationally?
What is the acceptance level of the Indian degrees Internationally?
Number of NoblePrizes recieved by the Chinese living in China?
Number of NoblePrizes recieved by the Indians living in India?
What is the quality of schools, colleges and universtities in China? Infra, building..facilities etc/
What is the quality of schools, colleges and universities in Inda? Ditto
3- Human Development Index
What is the HDI of China?
What is the HDI of India?
4- Gender Equality/Emencipation
What is the gender equality and emencipation of in China?
What is the gender equality and emencipation in India?
5- Infrastructure and Planning
What is Infrastructure? What is its added value? Why is it crucial for National Integeration and Economic Productivity?
And above all the Quality of Infrastructure and its longevity is critical component of any state's Comprehensive National Strength.
What is the Technology and Reseaerch Infrastructure of China? Both in volume and quality!
What is the Technology and Research Infrastructure of India? Ditto
What is the High End and Low End mantufacturing Infrastructure of China?
What is the High End and Low End manufacturing Infrastructure of India?
How many shipyards the Chinese have and what is the annual production capacity? Including the tonnage/size of the ships...
How many shipyards the Indians have and what is their annual production capacity? Ditto
What is the AgroIndustrial Infrastructure of China, including strategic storage?
What is the AgroIndustrial Infrastructure of Indian, including the strategic storage?
What is the net length of highways/motorways in China?
What is the net length of highways/motorways in India?
How many dams China has and their storage capacity?
How many dams India has and their storage capacity?
How much electricity of the Chinese produce through Green means?
How much Electricity the Indians produce through Green means?
What is net length of the Chinese Railways and what is its average speed?
What is the net length of Indian Railways and what is its average speed?
How many HighSpeed Railways km does China has?
How many HighSpeed Railways km does India has?
How many logistics hubs China has and what is there Technology Level? IoT/Automation etc.
How many logistics hubs India has and what is their Technology Level? Ditto
How many local and International Airports China has and what is their annual capacity?
Ditto for Inida?
6- Industrial Output
How many commercial and naval ships China produces annually?
Ditto for Inida?
Does China import steel for naval ships or its submarines?
Ditto for India?
How many local branded cars, trucks or other heavy vehicles China produces annully?
Ditto for India?
How many tons of industrial chemmicals and petrochemicals China produces annually?
Ditto for India?
How much electronices componenet, parts or final products China produces annually?
Ditto for India?
How much food and meat does China produce annually and how much it imports?
Ditto for India?
What is net worth of the Chinese banks and total savings of the Chinese citizens?
Ditto for India?
AgroIndutrial Machinery produced by China annually and imorted?
Ditto for India?
Mining Machinery produced or imported by China annually and its mining output?
Ditto for India?
FMCG output of China of local companies annually?
Ditto for India?
7- SpaceTechnology and Missions
What is the max carrying capacity of the Chinese SLVs and how many mission annually?
Ditto for India?
How many times has China put man in space by its own resources?
Ditto for India?
How many times China has engaged in Moon missions including landing its rover?
Ditto for India?
How many statelites has China placed in space to date?
Ditto for India?
How many Spy/Geopositioning satelites has China positioned in space?
Ditto for India?
What is the number of Observatories in China...? Also the nature of telescopes and their reach!
Ditto for India?
How many statelites are made in China by itself so far?
Ditto for India?
8- Military Industrial Complex
How many surface ships, destroyers, frigates, corvets, AC, support ships... does China has? How many are in different stages of production? Did China import anything for these ships?
Ditto for India?
How many SSN, SSBN and diesel electric submarines does China have? Did China import special steel for these subs? Did China import other subsystems for these subs?
Ditto for India?
Armaments of the Chinese Navy.... how much does China make by itself and how much it imports?
Ditto for India?
How far is China in autonomus underwater vehicles?
Ditto for India?
How many 4Gen Fighters China has inculding naval variety? How many are imported?
Ditto for India?
Aeroengine production by China...how many have been produced so far and what types? Immaterial for our discussion whether they are on par with the West or not...
Ditto for India?
How many types of helicopters are made by China and how many are in service?
Ditto for India?
Transport aircrapts...how many China has/made so far and how many are imported?
Ditto for India?
AWACS made by China and imported by China?
Ditto for India?
Armaments for the fighters/bombers made by China and imported by China?
Ditto for India?
Land forces equipments, transportation, armaments, tanks, artilery, rockets, missiles, communication systems, logistics vehicle etc... made by China and imported by China?
Ditto for India?
9- Industry 3.0
Robobtics application in China?
Ditto for India?
Artificial Intellgence Research and Application...both hardware and software... done within China?
Ditto for India?
GeneticEngineering ...number of research institues, companies and researchers in China?
Ditto for India?
OpenSource Software development and applicastion in China?
Ditto for India?
Fully automated factories in China?
Ditto for India?
Semicondouctors, chip design and production in China?
Ditto for India?
Certainly, so many things are not covered...but the above should provide us with a high level Framework of Marices to have a Comparative Analysis to alot Weght to both China and India in their respective Comprehensive National Strength.
Hopefully, the Chinese friends @beijingwalker and other Chinese memebers help us populate the data.
Same request to the good Indian posters here to populate the data per matrix....
It is perhaps very sad, rather painful....but admit we must.... that when we benchmark Pakistan with China the GAP is astronomical... something to reflect upon!
Mangus
@Slav Defence @The Eagle @jaibi Paks, if you could let this thread just languish in the Members section would be a blast! otherwise, it becomes usual hyperbole..mud slinging context.
Dearest Paks,
Over the years on PDF one has read, read and read about the Rise of India as SuperPower. $3TrillionEconomy, $1.2+Trillion in Equity and $500+Bln in Forex... all fine and dandy. And the good Indians have all the right to brag about it. Why not!
We have been subjected to the onsulaught of the good Indians about IT superpower, Pharma superpower, Industrial superpower...on and on.... it is their good right to brag and boast or feel proud if such is the ground reality...once again Why not!
In order to rationalise the Indian advacements we need to have a comparative benchmark...which can provide us valid data point to baseline the depth of IndianPower!
There is only one country which come close for this purpose and that is China.
Perhaps, the good Indians would like to benchmark themselves with the US or Japan.... but the two are truly very high in TechnoFeudalHierachy.... so for our purposes we can resign ourselves to China as benchmark for India.
The objective of this excercise is not to ridiculte the good Indians...but help us form a Rational understanding of the Comprehensive National Strength of both Indian and China.
For this we shall use the available DataPoints ... discussed to death on PDF.
PDF can be a Goldmine for Research if it could be better organised @WebMaster @Horus
In order to filter out a Rationalised Understanding, obviously, we require a set of Matrices to compare the two giants.
I do purpose to see GDP as a byproduct of NationalOutput and not as comparative tool. In otherwords what makes the GDP and how qualitative it is.
For example, India with $3Trillion GDP is less advanced than NL...where a company like ASML is global Innovation Leader.... just a tiny example. Or Singapore with its $200Bln plus high value added exports is a tiny dot compared to the Indian GDP.
Similar example can be found for China as well.... despite it being world's second largest economy.
Whence, we are able to compile the verified Data to each matrix...without bias, we shall be able to see what is the Comprehensive National Strength of Indian vs. China.
1- Governance
There purpose of any form of government is to provide services to its citizens without biase or discrimination.
It is immaterial for governance what form or government it is.... what matters is the quality and consistency of services provided.
Be it Kingdoms, Dictators, baby-eating Communists or world's biggest democracy. The Purpose of Any Form of Gov is to provide services consistently and qualitatively.
This determines the FunctionalityQuotient of a State...i.e. Whether a State is HighFunctioningState or LessFunctioningState or a SoftState!
What is the Quality and Consistency of Services Provided by China to its citizens?
What is the Quality and Consistency of Services Provided by India to its citizesns?
How many citizens has China lifted out of absolute poverty in the last 30 years?
How many citizens has Indian lifted out of absolute poverty in the last 30 years?
What is the level and breadth of HealthCare provided to its citizens by China?
What is the level and breadth of HealthCare provided to its citizens by India?
2- Education
How many Chinese Universities are in top 100 universities of the world?
How many Indian Universities are in the top 100 universities of the world?
What is the level and quality of secondary level educaiton in China?
What is the Level and quality of secondary level eduation in India?
What is the universal secondary education % in China?
What is the universal secondary education % in India?
What is level of research in the Chinese Universities and how many papers they publish annually?
What is the level of research in the Indian Universities and how many papoer the publish annucally?
What are areas of research in the Chinese Universities and how much funding they recieve from the Gov?
What are the areas of research in the Indian Universities and how much fundig they recieve from the Indian Gov?
What is the acceptance level of the Chinese degree Internationally?
What is the acceptance level of the Indian degrees Internationally?
Number of NoblePrizes recieved by the Chinese living in China?
Number of NoblePrizes recieved by the Indians living in India?
What is the quality of schools, colleges and universtities in China? Infra, building..facilities etc/
What is the quality of schools, colleges and universities in Inda? Ditto
3- Human Development Index
What is the HDI of China?
What is the HDI of India?
4- Gender Equality/Emencipation
What is the gender equality and emencipation of in China?
What is the gender equality and emencipation in India?
5- Infrastructure and Planning
What is Infrastructure? What is its added value? Why is it crucial for National Integeration and Economic Productivity?
And above all the Quality of Infrastructure and its longevity is critical component of any state's Comprehensive National Strength.
What is the Technology and Reseaerch Infrastructure of China? Both in volume and quality!
What is the Technology and Research Infrastructure of India? Ditto
What is the High End and Low End mantufacturing Infrastructure of China?
What is the High End and Low End manufacturing Infrastructure of India?
How many shipyards the Chinese have and what is the annual production capacity? Including the tonnage/size of the ships...
How many shipyards the Indians have and what is their annual production capacity? Ditto
What is the AgroIndustrial Infrastructure of China, including strategic storage?
What is the AgroIndustrial Infrastructure of Indian, including the strategic storage?
What is the net length of highways/motorways in China?
What is the net length of highways/motorways in India?
How many dams China has and their storage capacity?
How many dams India has and their storage capacity?
How much electricity of the Chinese produce through Green means?
How much Electricity the Indians produce through Green means?
What is net length of the Chinese Railways and what is its average speed?
What is the net length of Indian Railways and what is its average speed?
How many HighSpeed Railways km does China has?
How many HighSpeed Railways km does India has?
How many logistics hubs China has and what is there Technology Level? IoT/Automation etc.
How many logistics hubs India has and what is their Technology Level? Ditto
How many local and International Airports China has and what is their annual capacity?
Ditto for Inida?
6- Industrial Output
How many commercial and naval ships China produces annually?
Ditto for Inida?
Does China import steel for naval ships or its submarines?
Ditto for India?
How many local branded cars, trucks or other heavy vehicles China produces annully?
Ditto for India?
How many tons of industrial chemmicals and petrochemicals China produces annually?
Ditto for India?
How much electronices componenet, parts or final products China produces annually?
Ditto for India?
How much food and meat does China produce annually and how much it imports?
Ditto for India?
What is net worth of the Chinese banks and total savings of the Chinese citizens?
Ditto for India?
AgroIndutrial Machinery produced by China annually and imorted?
Ditto for India?
Mining Machinery produced or imported by China annually and its mining output?
Ditto for India?
FMCG output of China of local companies annually?
Ditto for India?
7- SpaceTechnology and Missions
What is the max carrying capacity of the Chinese SLVs and how many mission annually?
Ditto for India?
How many times has China put man in space by its own resources?
Ditto for India?
How many times China has engaged in Moon missions including landing its rover?
Ditto for India?
How many statelites has China placed in space to date?
Ditto for India?
How many Spy/Geopositioning satelites has China positioned in space?
Ditto for India?
What is the number of Observatories in China...? Also the nature of telescopes and their reach!
Ditto for India?
How many statelites are made in China by itself so far?
Ditto for India?
8- Military Industrial Complex
How many surface ships, destroyers, frigates, corvets, AC, support ships... does China has? How many are in different stages of production? Did China import anything for these ships?
Ditto for India?
How many SSN, SSBN and diesel electric submarines does China have? Did China import special steel for these subs? Did China import other subsystems for these subs?
Ditto for India?
Armaments of the Chinese Navy.... how much does China make by itself and how much it imports?
Ditto for India?
How far is China in autonomus underwater vehicles?
Ditto for India?
How many 4Gen Fighters China has inculding naval variety? How many are imported?
Ditto for India?
Aeroengine production by China...how many have been produced so far and what types? Immaterial for our discussion whether they are on par with the West or not...
Ditto for India?
How many types of helicopters are made by China and how many are in service?
Ditto for India?
Transport aircrapts...how many China has/made so far and how many are imported?
Ditto for India?
AWACS made by China and imported by China?
Ditto for India?
Armaments for the fighters/bombers made by China and imported by China?
Ditto for India?
Land forces equipments, transportation, armaments, tanks, artilery, rockets, missiles, communication systems, logistics vehicle etc... made by China and imported by China?
Ditto for India?
9- Industry 3.0
Robobtics application in China?
Ditto for India?
Artificial Intellgence Research and Application...both hardware and software... done within China?
Ditto for India?
GeneticEngineering ...number of research institues, companies and researchers in China?
Ditto for India?
OpenSource Software development and applicastion in China?
Ditto for India?
Fully automated factories in China?
Ditto for India?
Semicondouctors, chip design and production in China?
Ditto for India?
Certainly, so many things are not covered...but the above should provide us with a high level Framework of Marices to have a Comparative Analysis to alot Weght to both China and India in their respective Comprehensive National Strength.
Hopefully, the Chinese friends @beijingwalker and other Chinese memebers help us populate the data.
Same request to the good Indian posters here to populate the data per matrix....
It is perhaps very sad, rather painful....but admit we must.... that when we benchmark Pakistan with China the GAP is astronomical... something to reflect upon!
Mangus
@Slav Defence @The Eagle @jaibi Paks, if you could let this thread just languish in the Members section would be a blast! otherwise, it becomes usual hyperbole..mud slinging context.
