Combined Arab military firepower (data)

[Corruptistan]

Simple question. Does anyone have a complete overview of the entire military arsenal (equipment) of every Arab state and total estimates of the number of tanks, drones, fighter jets, naval ships, ballistic missiles and missiles etc. as a whole?

For instance the combined firepower of the entire GCC. Updates as of September 2022, that is.

Wikipedia is not exactly reliable or always up to date.

Is there a webpage where such data is openly available?

Are there any English or Arabic sources which meticulously record and list all domestic military projects of each Arab country as well? For instance so one could see the progress of each country in this regard, say the progress between January 2015 and January 2022.

Military of the Arab League - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This above for instance is old data (2017), not sure how accurate, and only shows manpower and annual expenses. Nothing about the actual military equipment let alone domestic military projects.

 

[Corruptistan]

Nobody that can help?

 

[Gomig-21]

Nobody that can help?

Yeah sorry about that, as a whole? As in independently listed but then cumulatively added together?

That's an interesting question and probably not much thought has been given to it TBH. Most likely since all Arab countries really view themselves as independent nations with their own militaries, despite our connections as Arab-speaking Muslim nations, we're still independently constructed each with our own sovereignty.

Also, the other issue is what do you consider as an "Arab country"? Some countries on that list don't even consider themselves Arab, even if it is their official language. With all the greatly varying dialects of Arabic and the notion some of these countries appeal to individualism and not Arabism, if you will, it's almost impossible to make an official list unless these particular nations claim to be Arab. The first two off the bat I would qualify without even questioning them is obviously Saudi Arabia and Egypt (since its creation has identified itself as the Arab Republic of Egypt), Jordan, Syria Iraq, Libya, the other GCC states such as the UAE, Oman, Qatar, Yemen. Sudan I'm not sure identifies as Arab and many Algerians will take an independent stance despite speaking Arabic. I wouldn't put Somalia or Comoros as Arab even Mauritania is a stretch.
I think it would be a rather difficult list to put a lot of detail together TBH.

 

[Corruptistan]

Yeah sorry about that, as a whole? As in independently listed but then cumulatively added together?

That's an interesting question and probably not much thought has been given to it TBH. Most likely since all Arab countries really view themselves as independent nations with their own militaries, despite our connections as Arab-speaking Muslim nations, we're still independently constructed each with our own sovereignty.

Also, the other issue is what do you consider as an "Arab country"? Some countries on that list don't even consider themselves Arab, even if it is their official language. With all the greatly varying dialects of Arabic and the notion some of these countries appeal to individualism and not Arabism, if you will, it's almost impossible to make an official list unless these particular nations claim to be Arab. The first two off the bat I would qualify without even questioning them is obviously Saudi Arabia and Egypt (since its creation has identified itself as the Arab Republic of Egypt), Jordan, Syria Iraq, Libya, the other GCC states such as the UAE, Oman, Qatar, Yemen. Sudan I'm not sure identifies as Arab and many Algerians will take an independent stance despite speaking Arabic. I wouldn't put Somalia or Comoros as Arab even Mauritania is a stretch.
I think it would be a rather difficult list to put a lot of detail together TBH.

Well, basically the Arab world but I understand your points.

Criteria is simple (in my eyes). Arabic-speaking countries, Arab League member states, Arab-majority ethnic inhabited countries. Of course each Arab country has its own distinctive character and distinctive regions even Arabic dialects although most of them (vast majority) are mutually intelligible. Not to mention that most Arabs are Semitic/Afro-Asiattic speaking even pre-Arabic/Islamic times plus proven ancestral/DNA ties. The largest minority in the Maghreb are Berbers but basically every local is a mixture of Arabs and Berbers and from what I have read, Arabs and Berbers are related peoples, same wider language family and similar DNA family, similar geography etc.

Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Palestine, all Arabian Peninsula countries, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania are Arab/Arab-Berber majority countries.

Somalia I don’t know enough about but I presume that there is an Arab minority in Somaliland, I know there are Arab minorities in Eritrea and Djibouti (close to Yemen) plus the historical role of Arabic language and Arabic culture in those 3 nations. Comoros, just googled it, was first discovered by Arabians and later settled by them alongside mainland Africans from East Africa hence the Arabic language. Chad, which could be an Arab League member state (they wanted to join), Arabs there (once again mixed with locals), are the second largest ethnic group in that country. Then you have the giant Arab diaspora in all continents.

Arabs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But yeah, I agree that Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti and Comoros are mostly not included when we talk about ethnic Arab countries and Arabs due to Arab minority status in all 4 countries, despite Arab League membership. I mean there are close to 10 million Arabs (natives mostly) in Turkey, Israel and Iran combined in the region alone and none of those are Arab countries although many claim that Israel is ethnically Arab (if you include the Israeli Jews originally from Arab countries.

So make that Oman, UAE, Qatar, Banrain, Kuwait, Iraq, Yemen, KSA, Jordan, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania.

Of course easier to just include every Arab League member state as such lists must exist, the Wikipedia article that I posted at least exists but does not show a full overview, sadly.

Even the full arsenal of all GCC members would be interesting (and probably impressive) on its own.

 

[Ghostkiller]

Well, basically the Arab world but I understand your points.

Criteria is simple (in my eyes). Arabic-speaking countries, Arab League member states, Arab-majority ethnic inhabited countries. Of course each Arab country has its own distinctive character and distinctive regions even Arabic dialects although most of them (vast majority) are mutually intelligible. Not to mention that most Arabs are Semitic/Afro-Asiattic speaking even pre-Arabic/Islamic times plus proven ancestral/DNA ties. The largest minority in the Maghreb are Berbers but basically every local is a mixture of Arabs and Berbers and from what I have read, Arabs and Berbers are related peoples, same wider language family and similar DNA family, similar geography etc.

Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Palestine, all Arabian Peninsula countries, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania are Arab/Arab-Berber majority countries.

Somalia I don’t know enough about but I presume that there is an Arab minority in Somaliland, I know there are Arab minorities in Eritrea and Djibouti (close to Yemen) plus the historical role of Arabic language and Arabic culture in those 3 nations. Comoros, just googled it, was first discovered by Arabians and later settled by them alongside mainland Africans from East Africa hence the Arabic language. Chad, which could be an Arab League member state (they wanted to join), Arabs there (once again mixed with locals), are the second largest ethnic group in that country. Then you have the giant Arab diaspora in all continents.

View attachment 880506

Arabs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But yeah, I agree that Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti and Comoros are mostly not included when we talk about ethnic Arab countries and Arabs due to Arab minority status in all 4 countries, despite Arab League membership. I mean there are close to 10 million Arabs (natives mostly) in Turkey, Israel and Iran combined in the region alone and none of those are Arab countries although many claim that Israel is ethnically Arab (if you include the Israeli Jews originally from Arab countries.

So make that Oman, UAE, Qatar, Banrain, Kuwait, Iraq, Yemen, KSA, Jordan, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania.

Of course easier to just include every Arab League member state as such lists must exist, the Wikipedia article that I posted at least exists but does not show a full overview, sadly.

Even the full arsenal of all GCC members would be interesting (and probably impressive) on its own.

The idea that arabs have one united army is just a myth and utopian. There is ethnics group that reject the Arab identity like Copts in (not all) Amazigh people in North Africa and don't forget how sectarians countries like Iraq Lebanon Syria (because of the ethnic groups like the real arab tribes, the assyrians, the maronites, the turkmen and also the sects shia, sunnia, catholics, orthodox, alevis). The other thing is the political issues between countries like for example Algeria/Morocco, Lebanon/Syria etc... So for me, the arab military could be only with Gulf countries and Egypt and Jordan and nothing else unless you solved all political tensions.

 

[Corruptistan]

The idea that arabs have one united army is just a myth and utopian. There is ethnics group that reject the Arab identity like Copts in (not all) Amazigh people in North Africa and don't forget how sectarians countries like Iraq Lebanon Syria (because of the ethnic groups like the real arab tribes, the assyrians, the maronites, the turkmen and also the sects shia, sunnia, catholics, orthodox, alevis). The other thing is the political issues between countries like for example Algeria/Morocco, Lebanon/Syria etc... So for me, the arab military could be only with Gulf countries and Egypt and Jordan and nothing else unless you solved all political tensions.

My thread was about the combined military equipment of each Arab country and thus the combined firepower of Arab countries. Not about some united Arab army which is not realistic currently.

Anyway Copts are a small minority in Egypt and the Arab world. How many are there? 5-10 million? And don't they speak Arabic anyway as well? Berbers are a minority too. And let us be honest, both Copts and Berbers are closer to Arabs than any other people. It would be if Danish or Swedish people denied that they have a lot in common.

Ethnic Arabs make up 80% of Iraq's population. Almost all the minorities live in Northern Iraq (KRG) which is de facto semi-independent anyway. Syria is even more ethic Arab percentage wise (90% or so).

The main issue is the political issue. From the outside looking, there could easily (in the future) be 3-4 strong regional Arab blocs that could cooperate together in a EU-like political and economic union (with military branches) but that is for another topic.

I mean there is already the GCC. I suspect (in the future) that it could expand to include Yemen, Iraq (should have been a member from the beginning which was also the plan before the Iraq-Iran war), Jordan etc. Maybe Egypt, if they want. A Syria free from Al-Assad would probably also want to join such an union as would Palestine. Tiny Lebanon would possible be an outliner but that country should have been a part of Syria anyway.

 

[Ghostkiller]

Anyway Copts are a small minority in Egypt and the Arab world. How many are there? 5-10 million? And don't they speak Arabic anyway as well? Berbers are a minority too.

More than that. They represent almost between 10% to 20% something like that, we don't have an ethnic statistics
Amazigh are the largest ethnic group in Morocco Tunisia Mauritania Algeria Libya. Some are arabized and have Arab identity and some don't have it. Like for example, the Kabyle people hate when someone tell them they are arab, they deny their arab identity but they embrace the Amazigh identity.
For Syrians, I don't think that they are arabs genetically but arab as identity. Syrians are arabized Levantines

Tiny Lebanon would possible be an outliner but that country should have been a part of Syria anyway.

No, Lebanon is a free country and should not be part of Syria. Each country have their ethnic group. See what Syrians did when they entered Lebanon during the lebanese civil war.

Maybe Egypt, if they want. A Syria free from Al-Assad would probably also want to join such an union as would Palestine.

Forget Palestine completly they don't an army nor a functional "state".

 

[Corruptistan]

More than that. They represent almost between 10% to 20% something like that, we don't have an ethnic statistics
Amazigh are the largest ethnic group in Morocco Tunisia Mauritania Algeria Libya. Some are arabized and have Arab identity and some don't have it. Like for example, the Kabyle people hate when someone tell them they are arab, they deny their arab identity but they embrace the Amazigh identity.
For Syrians, I don't think that they are arabs genetically but arab as identity. Syrians are arabized Levantines

No, Lebanon is a free country and should not be part of Syria. Each country have their ethnic group. See what Syrians did when they entered Lebanon during the lebanese civil war.

Forget Palestine completly they don't an army nor a functional "state".

Even if they made up 15%, they are a small minority overall and Copts have no ethnic group that they are more similar to than Arabs. Neither linguistically (Afro-Asiatic speakers) nor genetically.

Arabs are a majority in Tunisia, Libya and Algeria. Most Berbers have Arab ancestry too which is why Maghreb is considered as Arab-Berber identity. Besides, as I wrote, Arabs and Berbers are already closely related people (linguistically and genetically).

You live in France where most migrants from Algeria are Berbers (Kabyle) and many of them are deluded and very anti-Arab and write a lot of bullshit (claim that they are oppressed by the Arabs in Algeria and such nonsense). This is well-known. Algerians in Algeria laugh at them for instance online. Also by that logic we can say that Berbers themselves are very different depending on regions, from Black African looking ones, to Arab looking ones. Nor do they speak even a single language but various Berber languages that cannot be understood by say a Berber speaker from Southern Algeria and a Berber speaker from Morocco.

No, Syrians are genetically Arab and Semites, one of the first mentions of Arabs (almost 3000 years ago) occurred in Syria and the Levant. I am surprised that an Egyptian don't know this.

The thing is that Lebanon is a "fake" country made by the French for the Christian Arabs/Maronites there. It is historically and naturally a part of Syria. The Europeans created a lot of fake Arab countries to divide Arabs and it has worked very well as we have seen.

Well, I imagine that they eventually will, I can't imagine Israel annexing (which already has 20% of their population as Arabs) 6 million more Arabs. That would make Jews a minority in Israel.

And to tnd the stupid discussion of who is a "real Arab" or not, this discussion makes no sense as all native peoples of the Arab world are Semitic/Afro-Asiatic speaking peoples that inhabit a similar geography and who cluster with each other genetically irrespective of language and identity. This was the case millennia before an Arab (or any other modern-day identity emerged). The main Y-DNA Haplogroups in the Arab world are the J1 haplogroup, the J2 haplogroup (both are brother haplogroups) and the E haplogroup. All 3 haplogroups are native in all areas of the Arab world, for instance you have many people in Arabia of that haplogroup (E) which is very common in the Maghreb, yet based on simplistic arguments, some could claim that those are "Berbers" and not Arabs which would be ridiculous.

Genetic history of the Arab world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ghostkiller]

Even if they made up 15%, they are a small minority overall and Copts have no ethnic group that they are more similar to than Arabs. Neither linguistically (Afro-Asiatic speakers) nor genetically.

Arabs are a majority in Tunisia, Libya and Algeria. Most Berbers have Arab ancestry too which is why Maghreb is considered as Arab-Berber identity. Besides, as I wrote, Arabs and Berbers are already closely related people (linguistically and genetically).

You live in France where most migrants from Algeria are Berbers (Kabyle) and many of them are deluded and very anti-Arab and write a lot of bullshit. This is well-known. Algerians in Algeria laugh at them for instance online. Also by that logic we can say that Berbers themselves are very different depending on regions, from Black African looking ones, to Arab looking ones. Nor do they speak even a single language but various Berber languages that cannot be understood by say a Berber speaker from Southern Algeria and a Berber speaker from Morocco.

No, Syrians are genetically Arab and Semites, one of the first mentions of Arabs (almost 3000 years ago) occurred in Syria and the Levant. I am surprised that an Egyptian don't know this.

The think is that Lebanon is a "fake" country made by the French for the Christian Arabs/Maronites there. It is historically and naturally a part of Syria.

Well, I imagine that they eventually will, I can't imagine Israel annexing (which already has 20% of their population as Arabs) 6 million more Arabs. That would make Jews a minority in Israel.

As someone who love genetics and have north african friends, what you said is wrong. The Berber are completely different than the arabs from the Gulf. The Berbers have zero Arab ancestry (from the arabian peninsula). They are arabized berbers because the arriving of Islam and the Arab conquest of North Africa.

Christian and Muslim Copts (coptic mean egyptian) are closer to Levantines than the Gulf. But the Christian Copts are an Ethnoreligious-group. Semites doesn't mean arab. Jews are Semites do that make them Arabs? the answer is no. Ofc there is arab tribes in Syria before and after Islam but phenotypically Levantines are completly different from Gulf. They are whiter in skin sometimes with blue and green eyes. Levantines are more mix of natives groups like hitties, canaanites, kurds, assyrian etc... False also for Lebanon, since ancient times, Lebaneses with whom their ancestors were the Phoenicians are different from the ancient syrians

 

[Corruptistan]

As someone who love genetics and have north african friends, what you said is wrong. The Berber are completely different than the arabs from the Gulf. The Berbers have zero Arab ancestry (from the arabian peninsula). They are arabized berbers because the arriving of Islam and the Arab conquest of North Africa.

Christian and Muslim Copts (coptic mean egyptian) are closer to Levantines than the Gulf. But the Christian Copts are an Ethnoreligious-group. Semites doesn't mean arab. Jews are Semites do that make them Arabs? the answer is no. Ofc there is arab tribes in Syria before and after Islam but phenotypically Levantines are completly different from Gulf. They are whiter in skin sometimes with blue and green eyes. Levantines are more mix of natives groups like hitties, canaanites, kurds, assyrian etc... False also for Lebanon, since ancient times, Lebaneses with whom their ancestors were the Phoenicians are different from the ancient syrians

What you are saying has been disproved by DNA tests ages ago and makes no sense historically or linguistically (Afro-Asiatic). Arabs are a Semtiic peoples and originated in Arabia, Mesopotamia and Sham. Berbers are an Afro-Asiatic speaking peoples as well and racially Caucasian too (like Arabs). You cannot genetically (today) determine if someone has ancestry to which region exactly when all the main Y-DNA groups (maternal too) of the Arab world are native to each Arab country which is already explained below.

Genetic history of the Arab world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How do you explain that every Arab country has similar Y-DNA (J1, J2 and E as I wrote mainly) which dominate in every Arab country. This has obviously nothing to do with 1400 years of history but goes WAY back (several millennia back) all the way to the Neolithic migrations from the Arab Near East (Northern Arabia, Southern Levant and Mesopotamia - Natufian ancestry - google this, Egyptians have a lot of this which is why you cluster closely with Arabians).

Ancient genomes from North Africa evidence prehistoric migrations to the Maghreb from both the Levant and Europe​

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1800851115

Recent Historical Migrations Have Shaped the Gene Pool of Arabs and Berbers in North Africa​

Recent Historical Migrations Have Shaped the Gene Pool of Arabs and Berbers in North Africa

North Africa is characterized by its diverse cultural and linguistic groups and its genetic heterogeneity. Genomic data has shown an amalgam of components mixed since pre-Holocean times. Though no differences have been found in uniparental and classical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And those modern non-scientific DNA tests that you can take by paying 50-100 USD are not accurate and a joke (already explained by genetic scientists) because the tested pool of people is so low.

Insights into the Middle Eastern paternal genetic pool in Tunisia: high prevalence of T-M70 haplogroup in an Arab population​

Insights into the Middle Eastern paternal genetic pool in Tunisia: high prevalence of T-M70 haplogroup in an Arab population - Scientific Reports

To obtain refreshed insights into the paternal lineages of Tunisian populations, Y-chromosome diversity was assessed in two populations belonging to an Arab genealogical lineage, Kairouan and Wesletia, as well as in four Tunisian Andalusian populations, Testour, Slouguia, Qalaat-El-Andalous and...

www.nature.com

The point here is that there are far more similarities between Arabs and Berbers (genetically) than any other population. Or are you now going to claim that Berbers are closer to their Black African neighbors or Europeans?

Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations​

Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations

Author Summary Proposed migrations between North Africa and neighboring regions have included Paleolithic gene flow from the Near East, an Arabic migration across the whole of North Africa 1,400 years ago (ya), and trans-Saharan transport of slaves from sub-Saharan Africa. Historical records...

journals.plos.org

This DNA test above basically confirms what I wrote, mainly, that most Berbers in North Africa are descendants of Neolithic Middle Easterners that Arabs of the Middle East also originate from by large. Later came widespread (and documented) Arab settlements (whole entire families) in all of North Africa further cementing the DNA similarities.

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa​

• July 2002
• The American Journal of Human Genetics

So I am afraid, that you are wrong, my friend.

You do know that Egyptians have more African admixture/ancestry than Arabians, right? And no, Egyptians are closer too Arabians and Arabians and Levantines are the same racial people (Semitics/Arabs/same DNA haplogroups) as Arabians and besides Levantines and Arabians are different and can be grouped in different groups. Northern Arabians and Southern Levantines are the same people. Northern Levantines and Southern Arabians (Yemenis, Omanis, Southern KSA) are obviously a bit different but still the same race, Y-DNA, similar genetics etc.

As someone who love genetics and have north african friends, what you said is wrong. The Berber are completely different than the arabs from the Gulf. The Berbers have zero Arab ancestry (from the arabian peninsula). They are arabized berbers because the arriving of Islam and the Arab conquest of North Africa.

Christian and Muslim Copts (coptic mean egyptian) are closer to Levantines than the Gulf. But the Christian Copts are an Ethnoreligious-group. Semites doesn't mean arab. Jews are Semites do that make them Arabs? the answer is no. Ofc there is arab tribes in Syria before and after Islam but phenotypically Levantines are completly different from Gulf. They are whiter in skin sometimes with blue and green eyes. Levantines are more mix of natives groups like hitties, canaanites, kurds, assyrian etc... False also for Lebanon, since ancient times, Lebaneses with whom their ancestors were the Phoenicians are different from the ancient syrians

Yeah, and did you know that the Phoenicians were said to originate from Eastern Arabia by Ancient Greek scholars and that Semites originate in Northern Arabia/Southern Levant/Mesopotamia? Speaking about Phoenicians, they colonized and settled much of North Africa, another factor that ties the Maghreb with the Arab Middle East together.

But anyway, let us just pretend that Arabs and Berbers are from a different planet and not closely related people genetically, racially, linguistically (Afro-Asiatic), appearance wise etc. and that Berbers are more similar to Black African neighbors of theirs or Europeans (lol).

I suggest reading up about Arab history, you sound like some European that thinks that "real Arabs" (no such thing to begin with) are from Yemen which is another myth. Arabs did not jump down from the sky 1400 years ago (lol), they lived alongside native peoples to the region, which in the case of the Arab world, were mainly fellow Semitic and Afro-Asiatic peoples that they obviously shared DNA with. Nothing shocking about this. DNA already confirms it.

 

[Ghostkiller]

What you are saying has been disproved by DNA tests ages ago and makes no sense historically or linguistically (Afro-Asiatic). Arabs are a Semtiic peoples and originated in Arabia, Mesopotamia and Sham. Berbers are an Afro-Asiatic speaking peoples as well and racially Caucasian too (like Arabs). You cannot genetically (today) determine if someone has ancestry to which region exactly when all the main Y-DNA groups (maternal too) of the Arab world are native to each Arab country which is already explained below.

Genetic history of the Arab world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How do you explain that every Arab country has similar Y-DNA (J1, J2 and E as I wrote mainly) which dominate in every Arab country. This has obviously nothing to do with 1400 years of history but goes WAY back (several millennia back) all the way to the Neolithic migrations from the Arab Near East (Northern Arabia, Southern Levant and Mesopotamia - Natufian ancestry - google this, Egyptians have a lot of this which is why you cluster closely with Arabians).

Ancient genomes from North Africa evidence prehistoric migrations to the Maghreb from both the Levant and Europe​

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1800851115

Recent Historical Migrations Have Shaped the Gene Pool of Arabs and Berbers in North Africa​

Recent Historical Migrations Have Shaped the Gene Pool of Arabs and Berbers in North Africa

North Africa is characterized by its diverse cultural and linguistic groups and its genetic heterogeneity. Genomic data has shown an amalgam of components mixed since pre-Holocean times. Though no differences have been found in uniparental and classical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And those modern non-scientific DNA tests that you can take by paying 50-100 USD are not accurate and a joke (already explained by genetic scientists) because the tested pool of people is so low.

Insights into the Middle Eastern paternal genetic pool in Tunisia: high prevalence of T-M70 haplogroup in an Arab population​

Insights into the Middle Eastern paternal genetic pool in Tunisia: high prevalence of T-M70 haplogroup in an Arab population - Scientific Reports

To obtain refreshed insights into the paternal lineages of Tunisian populations, Y-chromosome diversity was assessed in two populations belonging to an Arab genealogical lineage, Kairouan and Wesletia, as well as in four Tunisian Andalusian populations, Testour, Slouguia, Qalaat-El-Andalous and...

www.nature.com

The point here is that there are far more similarities between Arabs and Berbers (genetically) than any other population. Or are you now going to claim that Berbers are closer to their Black African neighbors or Europeans?

Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations​

Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations

Author Summary Proposed migrations between North Africa and neighboring regions have included Paleolithic gene flow from the Near East, an Arabic migration across the whole of North Africa 1,400 years ago (ya), and trans-Saharan transport of slaves from sub-Saharan Africa. Historical records...

journals.plos.org

This DNA test above basically confirms what I wrote, mainly, that most Berbers in North Africa are descendants of Neolithic Middle Easterners that Arabs of the Middle East also originate from by large. Later came widespread (and documented) Arab settlements (whole entire families) in all of North Africa further cementing the DNA similarities.

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa​

• July 2002
• The American Journal of Human Genetics

So I am afraid, that you are wrong, my friend.

You do know that Egyptians have more African admixture/ancestry than Arabians, right? And no, Egyptians are closer too Arabians and Arabians and Levantines are the same racial people (Semitics/Arabs/same DNA haplogroups) as Arabians and besides Levantines and Arabians are different and can be grouped in different groups. Northern Arabians and Southern Levantines are the same people. Northern Levantines and Southern Arabians (Yemenis, Omanis, Southern KSA) are obviously a bit different but still the same race, Y-DNA, similar genetics etc.



Yeah, and did you know that the Phoenicians were said to originate from Eastern Arabia by Ancient Greek scholars and that Semites originate in Northern Arabia/Southern Levant/Mesopotamia? Oh, and speaking about Phoenicians, they colonized and settled much of North Africa, another factor that ties the Maghreb with the Arab Middle East together.

Berbers are mix that is true between Semites people and European people but that is thounsands of years ago and not something close like 1000 years ago something.The Berbers or Amazigh people are one of the oldest inhabitants of North Africa.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1800851115

Levantines here doesn't mean Arab but more the Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers and Pre-Pottery Neolithic farmers Late Neolithic

 

[Corruptistan]

To end this discussion once and for all:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Principal-component-analysis-and-genetic-clustering-of-genome-wide-DNA-from-three_fig3_317237154

Speaking about African (Black) ancestry Egyptians (which is higher today than before - Ancient Egyptians were even closer to Middle Eastern populations)

... PCA on the joined data set. We found the ancient Egyptian samples falling distinct from modern Egyptians, and closer towards Near Eastern and European samples ( Fig. 4a, Supplementary Fig. 3, Supplementary Table 5). In contrast, modern Egyptians are shifted towards sub-Saharan African populations. Model-based clustering using ADMIXTURE 37 ( Fig. 4b, Supplementary Fig. 4) further supports these results and reveals that the three ancient Egyptians differ from modern Egyptians by a relatively larger Near Eastern genetic component, in particular a component found in Neolithic Levantine ancient individuals 36 (Fig. 4b).

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Principal-component-analysis-and-genetic-clustering-of-genome-wide-DNA-from-three_fig3_317237154

Here is the publication (from 2017 so very modern):

Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods​

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317237154_Ancient_Egyptian_mummy_genomes_suggest_an_increase_of_Sub-Saharan_African_ancestry_in_post-Roman_periods

Quite from the conclusion:

"Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times."
​

Anyway, I am ending it here as I wrote everything that I needed to write about this topic. It is up to the individual to believe what they want.

And here from the same, report, you can see another graphic of how Arabs, Egyptians included, cluster closely with each other:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Analysis-of-90-ancient-Egyptian-mitochondrial-genomes-a-Mitochondrial-DNA-haplogroup_fig2_317237154

Berbers are mix that is true between Semites people and European people but that is thounsands of years ago and not something close like 1000 years ago something.The Berbers or Amazigh people are one of the oldest inhabitants of North Africa.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1800851115

Levantines here doesn't mean Arab but more the Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers and Pre-Pottery Neolithic farmers Late Neolithic

Well, my point is that it is very difficult to define who is an "real" Arab and who is not. For instance not many people know this but many people think that Arabs originated in Yemen (many Arabs included) but in reality most Yemenis did not speak Arabic 2000 years ago when most of Northern Arabic, Central Arabia, Southern Mesopotamia, Southern Levant and Central Levant spoke it.

Also since all the same haplogroups in the Arab world are found in all Arab countries, how can you define who is what "originally"? For instance a Saudi Arabian man that belongs to the E haplogrup (most common in the Maghreb) is now a Berber (by that logic) but a Berber that belongs to the J haplogroups (which are very common in Northern Africa), is an Arab per se? It does not make sense.

One thing is identity, another is ancestry/DNA/linguistic family group which all predate modern-day constructs of identity by millennia.

And let us get one thing straight here, Arabians, Levantines, Egyptians and many other Arabs can look very different even within the same family (pale, olive-skin (most typical), brown/dark) etc. Similar to Berbers. You have Black Berbers (that claim to be original Berbers), brown-skinned ones and pale-looking ones.

Also what you wrote and admitted just confirms what I have written, namely that Arabs and Berbers are already related peoples long before their identities (Arab and Berber) even existed. This obviously also includes Copts, Assyrians and other native peoples, including native minorities in Arabian countries. Their languages too belong to the same language family.

All native peoples in the Arab world are closely related genetically, culturally, geographically, historically, linguistically etc. which makes the divisions even more stupid and some Arabs even want more Arab countries, lol. As that will solve anything.

Of course this does not mean that there are not political, identity (ethnic) divisions. They exist everywhere but it is typical of modern-day Arabs to point out the differences (small overall compared to other populations of the world) rather than the many, many similarities that should connect people to each other.

 

[The SC]

An Arab army today would be the biggest most powerful conventional army throughout history.. (add some Nuclear, biological and chemical weapons too).. not boosting..

- 4 million active men armed forces

- 5000 fighter aircrafts

- 11000 naval war ships

- 18 000 MBTs

- 50 000 IFV

- Budget is $ 123 billion

And so on..

You can add the UAVS, BMs, Cruise missiles, Air-defenses, Satellites, Helicopters...etc

 

[Gomig-21]

Nice angle shot of Qatari Rafale.

Speaking of combined Arab arms, by the time Dassault executes all the orders it has on hand, Egypt will have 54 jets, Qatar 36 and the UAE 80 for a total of 170 Rafales.

Add the 24 Qatari Typhoons, 12 Omani, 28 Kuwaiti and the current Saudi 72 plus the additional 48 on order for a total of 184 for a combined total advanced Arab Eurocanards of 354.

Pretty impressive and that is if Egypt doesn't push the button for 24 of its own to add to that.

 

[aziqbal]

An Arab army today would be the biggest most powerful conventional army throughout history.. (add some Nuclear, biological and chemical weapons too).. not boosting..

- 4 million active men armed forces

- 5000 fighter aircrafts

- 11000 naval war ships

- 18 000 MBTs

- 50 000 IFV

- Budget is $ 123 billion

And so on..

You can add the UAVS, BMs, Cruise missiles, Air-defenses, Satellites, Helicopters...etc

11,000 warships ? really ? why not make it 1.1 million

and its not the machine its the men behind them

and we all know Arabs are not cut for war

Tiny Israel with 11 warships controls entire Middle East